Moving up from AR Drones

[jakesteam1953]

I did get a message back and he explained some things about his products. I think they are built Very strong and that makes me a bit more curious. He does not offer GPS or camera mounts as he told me they are made for strength and acrobatics. I am going to do as you suggested and keep reading and looking, but may decide on one of his if for nothing more than getting good at flying and having something that wont break so easy!

 

[Stone-D]

They are indeed extremely strong. They are designed for sport flying, and being generally tossed around rather violently... perfect for newbie training! The Multiwii boards he offers can be extended with GPS if you wish, or you could replace it with a different board, like a Naza M v2.

As for cameras, there are plenty of options available for mounting one to this shape/style of quad. Hell, rubber bands and velcro work quite well.

Going all out with a gimbal wouldn't be a good idea though, but you'd want a stronger aerial platform with bigger props for that anyway.

 

[jakesteam1953]

I was wondering if you could take a look at this special offer that 3Drobotics is having and give me your thoughts https://store.3drobotics.com/products/y6-october-sale they have the Y6 and the X8 on this special and I was thinking of ordering as it comes with the Gopro Hero3 Black edition. But I dont want to make the wrong choice? and which would be the better choice if I did order the Y6 or the X8 thanks, Mike

 

[dazzab]

I was wondering if you could take a look at this special offer that 3Drobotics is having and give me your thoughts https://store.3drobotics.com/products/y6-october-sale they have the Y6 and the X8 on this special and I was thinking of ordering as it comes with the Gopro Hero3 Black edition. But I dont want to make the wrong choice? and which would be the better choice if I did order the Y6 or the X8 thanks, Mike

I started out with 3DR copters being heavily involved with the APM project via friends. I have a 3DR quad and 3DR flat hexa and love them both. The quad is the cheapest and smallest copter of the four I own and it's my favorite because it flys so well and is so much fun. I think 3DR is good value if you are the type of person who wants to build and learn about them. The parts are fairly cheap and you will need to factor in the cost of parts because you do crash when learning. :-(

That deal looks very good and the coax configuration is getting good reviews from users. I think it's always better to start with the smallest so I'd say the X6 would be a good fit if you are just starting. Indeed, it's a bit advanced for a first copter. But it will do the job and do it well. It's a good choice as a trainer that you won't outgrow for some time IMHO.

 

[Stone-D]

As I've said before, I can't really testify to 3DR electronics. Broadly speaking, though, tricopters are quite a bit harder to handle than quads.

Aside from that - the GoPro3 Black has been superceded by the Plus edition so you'd want to take the $200 discount. The initial blurb says you get a DX7 transmitter, while the options list a DX7s. They're completely different. The DX7 is way old, and the DX7s is a cut-down DX8... both do NOT have backlit screens, unlike the DX8, and the DX9 has just come out with 9 channels and, more importantly, sliders instead of variable knobs for controlling gimbals.

 

[jakesteam1953]

As I've said before, I can't really testify to 3DR electronics. Broadly speaking, though, tricopters are quite a bit harder to handle than quads.

Aside from that - the GoPro3 Black has been superceded by the Plus edition so you'd want to take the $200 discount. The initial blurb says you get a DX7 transmitter, while the options list a DX7s. They're completely different. The DX7 is way old, and the DX7s is a cut-down DX8... both do NOT have backlit screens, unlike the DX8, and the DX9 has just come out with 9 channels and, more importantly, sliders instead of variable knobs for controlling gimbals.

I received a message back from 3DRobotics and their recommendation was to wait on the Iris, but I don't think that will be a newer radio? I just thought the package was a good price for the X8 but maybe I am too much of a hurry and should think more. I talked with Gopro an they told me up until the + editions the Hero3 Black was the best, and I think the pricing dropped to around $299 they also said the silver + was better than the black at about the same price so I thought taking the black edition rather than the $200 was a better choice? Maybe I should wait till next month when the Iris comes out and then see where things are? I am also wondering what other companies are out there with similar pricing, offering something better? thanks, I like hearing other opinions because it keeps me from making the wrong decisions.

 

[Stone-D]

Don't get me wrong, I'm quite happy with my DX7s, especially after modding it to have a backlight. Before that, though, it was very difficult to read anything on the screen when outdoors.

As for the GoPro, again I'm very happy with my own GoPro3 Black... however, the better lens, better low light performance, better battery and SuperView on the newer Plus variant... I'm thinking of selling mine for a low price and getting a Plus.

I'm also hoping they've dealt with some of the annoyances, too. For example, it frequently 'pretends' to turn off after using in USB disk mode, so the battery dies without you being aware.

Anyway, here's an Engadget review: http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/16/gopro-hero3-review/

 

[jakesteam1953]

Don't get me wrong, I'm quite happy with my DX7s, especially after modding it to have a backlight. Before that, though, it was very difficult to read anything on the screen when outdoors.

As for the GoPro, again I'm very happy with my own GoPro3 Black... however, the better lens, better low light performance, better battery and SuperView on the newer Plus variant... I'm thinking of selling mine for a low price and getting a Plus.

I'm also hoping they've dealt with some of the annoyances, too. For example, it frequently 'pretends' to turn off after using in USB disk mode, so the battery dies without you being aware.

Anyway, here's an Engadget review: http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/16/gopro-hero3-review/

Maybe I should just sit back a bit longer and wait till I see how the consumer version of the Iris is? Then I can decide on the Gopro maybe silver + I am sure even if I want to go back to the Y6 or X8 they will have more specials? and I am still learning on my AR Drone modified with the RF Radio so I guess there is no hurry.

 

[jakesteam1953]

What is the Standard for Controllers when it comes to the stick controls. What does the right and left do? On the one I have for the AR Drone the left will increase altitude if I push Up and will rotate left and right if I move the Left stick right or left. And the right stick will roll left and right moving it left or right and will pitch forward or backward if I move the stick up or down? I just don't want to get all set with this and then get my new quad and have it be different?

 

[Stone-D]

Transmitter controls are different based on the region you're in. There are 4 'modes' - the most popular is the USA-preferred Mode 2, which is what yours is. Mode 1 is the second most popular, where the positions are reversed.

I'm in Indonesia and decided on Mode 2 due to the larger number of users and overall support for it.

As for your next quad, yeah wait. However, I still suggest going for a cheaper acrobatic quad for you to throw around and practice with. The geared AR Drone doesn't even begin to compare to the power you get from direct-driven propellers.

However, in the meantime, have a go at tweaking the RC mod's configs for yourself, particularly the max variables (angle, yaw, pitch, climb, etc). Download the Mirumod source and update the firmware. Unless you're lucky with the particular RC mod you're using, you'll need a USB adapter in order to do this... and possibly some soldering knowhow, which you should have anyway for this hobby.

 

[MachSpeed]

Wow after reading through all this I think I'm even more undecided than before

Would it be fair to say that the actual platform, as in the frame, isn't as important as the Flight Controller. So, maybe buy a nice frame like the Flame Wheel 550 (my current front runner) and then shop around further for the Flight Controller to suit the task at hand? Or upgrade an included one down the track?

What are thoughts of quad vs hex when using it as a gopro platform? Less rotors = less obstacles in the field of view... Or mount the camera lower to help with this.

 

[Stone-D]

Wow after reading through all this I think I'm even more undecided than before

Haha. Deciding is one of the curses of this hobby, and usually the wallet loses the fight as your single quad rapidly becomes a fleet!

Would it be fair to say that the actual platform, as in the frame, isn't as important as the Flight Controller. So, maybe buy a nice frame like the Flame Wheel 550 (my current front runner) and then shop around further for the Flight Controller to suit the task at hand? Or upgrade an included one down the track?

That would be pretty accurate. The frame does, of course, have an effect... only you know your needs. Where a traditional 'x' shape is great for practice and general aerobatics, space is an issue while an 'H' quad is easier to orient from a distance and will allow you to load more electronics - cameras, transmitters, aerials, etc.

You COULD get the frame then shop for bits, but that's a learning process that many aren't willing to take as it could be quite costly - flight controllers must be tuned to the airframe, and you can't use any old motor/prop/esc combos.

The hobby is changing dramatically. As a newbie myself (5 months now, give or take a few weeks), I 'cheated' by buying one made by someone who know what he was doing. I'm using that as a teaching aid and will experiment with other controllers as time goes by. In previous years, before prices came down and mass produced quads like the 350QX or the Phantom showed up, doing it yourself was the only option.

What are thoughts of quad vs hex when using it as a gopro platform? Less rotors = less obstacles in the field of view... Or mount the camera lower to help with this.

For GoPro, a hex would be overkill. Hexes and Octas are heavy lifters - Canon, and other DSLRs. Full video rigs, etc. They're not meant for casual flying - the weight alone reduces maneuverability quite a bit, and flight controllers in Hex/Octa mode go for stability over anything else.

However, at the end of the day, it depends on your goals. Lazy panoramas and panning shots? Hex. Swooping, fast turns, and other dramatic shots? With FPV? Quad or Tri.

As a last note, again I strongly advise you to practice with a smaller one first. A big mistake is to jump the queue and go straight to GPS-stabilized systems. If something goes wrong - and it WILL - you would have no idea how to recover... at best, thousands of dollars down the toilet, at worst someone gets 3Kg of dead weight with sharp edges in the face.

 

[jakesteam1953]

I am leaning towards trying to build a Dji F450 everything I hear is telling me it is a good training unit, and can add fpv later on. I am not sure where is the best place to start buying parts or radio and I don't want to buy the wrong things. I want to learn to fly well before moving up and will need something I can repair along the way. I am leaning towards the Naza m lite but so far I am not sure on the Radio. I want to take advantage of all the features of the Naza and especially the ones that will bring it down safe should I have a problem. And I want to make sure that when I move to the Fpv the radio will work well and at a good distance. Any suggestions without going too high in price? what are your thoughts on the Spektrum DX7s I would like to stay around $250

 

[Stone-D]

I am leaning towards trying to build a Dji F450 everything I hear is telling me it is a good training unit, and can add fpv later on. I am not sure where is the best place to start buying parts or radio and I don't want to buy the wrong things.

Look for local hobbyshops and other hobbyists. Failing that, head to RCGroups - lots of newbies there and lots of people who like to help without fear of a hidden agenda (read, sales).

I want to learn to fly well before moving up and will need something I can repair along the way. I am leaning towards the Naza m lite but so far I am not sure on the Radio. I want to take advantage of all the features of the Naza and especially the ones that will bring it down safe should I have a problem.

Once you do get your stuff together, I would strongly advise you to fly a few weeks WITHOUT the safeties. They're not reliable, and you need to fall back on your skill when they fail.

And I want to make sure that when I move to the Fpv the radio will work well and at a good distance.

This is where things get a bit complicated, which is not what you want to hear. There are a number of frequency ranges to choose from, for both the transmitter and for the FPV signal. Eg, for FPV the common ones are 5.8Ghz (good quality, shortish distance, no penetration so line-of-sight only), 2.4Ghz (clashes with most transmitters), 1.2Ghz (legal issues, gets interference from the transmitter, big antenna, GREAT penetration and distance).

Any suggestions without going too high in price? what are your thoughts on the Spektrum DX7s I would like to stay around $250

I use the DX7s and I love it - however, it has limitations I wasn't aware of before as I was a newbie, so I'm looking into the DX9 as a nice upgrade. I STILL am a newbie, and although I've looked at other 'brands' I'm too lacking in knowledge to go there yet.

The DX7s has 7 channels (throttle, rudder, etc), only ONE switch has three positions and the aux channels are dials/knobs... no sliders. This doesn't sound like a big deal, but most flight controllers nowadays have safe, sport and manual modes (for example, the actual terms are different). Then you add in height hold, return to home, etc and your channel count starts to mount up. The DX9 has sliders on the back - perfect for gimbal control, as I find the aux knob very unintuitive.

Other options are Frsky, Hitec, Turnigy, Walkera, and a bunch of others.

Now here's the kicker - there isn't a common protocol for radio communications, so the receivers are NOT compatible. Some transmitters let you use addon modules - some plug in, others need soldering - but that's a level of tinkering I'm not prepared to deal with right now.

This is where the Walkera Devo line - cheap and not the greatest build quality - wins: the open source 'hack' called DeviationX is a huge winner, as it lets you use most (all?) of those protocols without any hardware modifications.

For now, I'm staying with Spektrum. Yes, a lot of it is great marketing and yes, feature-wise the others win hands down, but support is excellent, I love BNF and have 100% satisfaction with all my Eflite/HorizonHobby quads... unlike with the others.


TL;DR: You can't rely on advice from a single thread. You have a lot of homework ahead of you. Good luck.

 

[FlyGirl]

I am leaning towards trying to build a Dji F450 everything I hear is telling me it is a good training unit, and can add fpv later on. I am not sure where is the best place to start buying parts or radio and I don't want to buy the wrong things. I want to learn to fly well before moving up and will need something I can repair along the way. I am leaning towards the Naza m lite but so far I am not sure on the Radio. I want to take advantage of all the features of the Naza and especially the ones that will bring it down safe should I have a problem. And I want to make sure that when I move to the Fpv the radio will work well and at a good distance. Any suggestions without going too high in price? what are your thoughts on the Spektrum DX7s I would like to stay around $250

I have the DX7s and while it does work fine it does involve a little mixing of channels. I wish I had the 8 channel, it would have made it easier. However that being said, what you have mentioned so far, the 450 Flame Wheel, the NAZA-M Lite with GPS, the Spektrum DX7s with an ar8000 receiver is exactly what I have. I bought the Flame Wheel ARF kit which comes with the motors and ESCs to make things easy as like you, when I started, I had no clue what to get. I am using 4s 14.8v 5000mAh batteries and GemFan 9 inch carbon fiber propellers. I have since added a Replay XD720 camera, an ImmersionRC 600mW video transmitter, a FatShark Predator v2 goggles/FPV system, an ImmersionRC Uno base video receiver with a set of FatShark Base goggles and circular polarized antennas. All of this was pretty modular so again I didn't have to fiddle with anything. I've never had issues with anything and the quad has yet to get a scratch on it after 50 or so flights. It's a nice FPV rig....

 

[bruce365]

Why not buy the Futaba 8J S-Bus compatible Naza was made to be used with Futaba. They are available for around $300 on ebay, not too far above your $250 and it has 8 channels this is important and enough switches to do all that is required.
Regards - bruce

and I forgot to mention when you FPVing in the future this is the perfect radio to go to long range UHF (eg EzUHF) with 2.4 video.

 

[jakesteam1953]

i like how you try to help. you and fly girl have been a lot of help. I am curious on what I will do lol but I will think before I press the buy button.

 

[FlyGirl]

i like how you try to help. you and fly girl have been a lot of help. I am curious on what I will do lol but I will think before I press the buy button.

My pleasure Jake!

 

[jakesteam1953]

what are your thoughts on the Futaba 8J I see it listed for about $260 has a couple of 3 position switches which will help from what I have read? and Bruce said it was intended to work with the Naza. I do have one other question. If I was to buy this radio and still end up buying the IRIS later on, can I use this with that? What would I have to do for that to work if I can?

 

[FlyGirl]

what are your thoughts on the Futaba 8J I see it listed for about $260 has a couple of 3 position switches which will help from what I have read? and Bruce said it was intended to work with the Naza. I do have one other question. If I was to buy this radio and still end up buying the IRIS later on, can I use this with that? What would I have to do for that to work if I can?

That should be fine and yes you can use it on the Iris as well. All you need is a second receiver for the Iris and then you create another model configuration in the transmitter for the Iris....