Horrendous flight time!!

cliofreak

Member
Well, after 21 mins flight, each cell (3s) was down to 3.37V. Thats what they read on the charger just now. Thats 80.2% as far as I can see. Does that make sense in the same way as working it out via mAh?

To be honest, I could have landed 30 secs earlier to get it on the first beep but I held it a little longer. Still, I think its not too bad for the lipo on this occasion. I'll aim for first beep in future. Thats usually around 3.7V.
 
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SJBrit

Member
Was that measured under load or a few minutes after you landed? 3.37V is too low for a LiPo if you've given it a chance to bounce back. Under load 3.37V is probably about right. You ought to be at around 3.7V for a healthily depleted battery (after you've given it a few minutes to bounce back). Measuring how much capacity you are putting back in is really the foolproof way to see where you ended up.
 

cliofreak

Member
Was that measured under load or a few minutes after you landed? 3.37V is too low for a LiPo if you've given it a chance to bounce back. Under load 3.37V is probably about right. You ought to be at around 3.7V for a healthily depleted battery (after you've given it a few minutes to bounce back). Measuring how much capacity you are putting back in is really the foolproof way to see where you ended up.
Ok, cool. Yeah that was measured about an hour after I landed so potentially too low a V. Ill see what I put back in after charging tomorrow and post it here. Hopefully i'll not be too far off 80%. If I am, lesson learned...land on first beeps.
 

Carapau

Tek care, lambs ont road, MRF Moderator
80% of capacity used relates pretty closely to 3.7v per cell. Below that and you are going to far. However, now that you know your flight time, not the mAh put back in and then devide the two to find out how many mAh you are using per minute and then based on 80% of capacity you can work out your flight time.
 

Rotorfreek

Member
Glad you saw a good improvement! Í completely agree to look after your batteries as said above - I set a alarm like the one I linked you to to go off at 3.6 V per cell loaded. That quickly has it bounce back to 11.0-11.1v within a minute of landing, which is very healthy.

It should be noted however that my battery seems to be under-rated. I can easily put back 5500mah. I did do a run it until it started to lose power test on one before binning it and it took 6930 mah when id run it down to 3.2 v per cell.

Just land before you hit 3.5 whilst flying and you will be golden.

Sent by my thumb, a trusty slave to my crazy mind. The above is the ramblings of a lunatic, and should be treated as such. Terms and conditions apply.
 

Rotorfreek

Member
And you said your worried about the terminals with the day leads... They are insulated with heart shrink I hope??

Sent by my thumb, a trusty slave to my crazy mind. The above is the ramblings of a lunatic, and should be treated as such. Terms and conditions apply.
 

cliofreak

Member
And you said your worried about the terminals with the day leads... They are insulated with heart shrink I hope??

Sent by my thumb, a trusty slave to my crazy mind. The above is the ramblings of a lunatic, and should be treated as such. Terms and conditions apply.
Yeah, they're insulated but theres not a lot of room at the end of one f those red plugs for the heat shrink to grab on to. Im charging now so Ill know how much goes back in soon. Im glad you told me you put back in 5500 as Id suspect I way over did it if I put that much back in. Hard to tell the 80% rule then if the packs are underrated!
 

Rotorfreek

Member
The best way to judge it to get to know your packs, always land at a safe voltage (above 3.5 loaded) and log what you put back in. I keep a note pad with my charger where each battery has a page. I log flight time, bounce back voltage and min after landing, Mah put back in, and mah per min of flight.

It becomes very obvious when a battery starts to take longer to bounce back (showing an INCREACE in internal resistance, and therefore your coming towards end of life) and also when you start getting less and less flight time/capacity before you hit 3.6 v and need to land.

You can also see the effect weight and flying style have on efficiency with your mah per minute figures.

Sent by my thumb, a trusty slave to my crazy mind. The above is the ramblings of a lunatic, and should be treated as such. Terms and conditions apply.
 

cliofreak

Member
I was wondering, does anyone know why the ecosix charger from hobby king won't charge above 2.5A? It has a 5.0V setting but every time I try it, it initialised then two secs into charge it completely shuts down and reboots. It will only complete the charge if I set it to 2.5 or below.

At 2.5A this 5800mAh is taking AGES to charge as you can imagine. Im charging at lest than 0.5C if Im correct.
 

cliofreak

Member
Well, I put 5999 back in so a bit more than your 5500 Rotorfreek. I definitely land on the first beep in future (probs around 19 mins) and thats plenty. The lipo is definitely underrated! Its perfectly balance 4.2 4.2 4.2
 

SJBrit

Member
Wow - you put 5999 back in a 5800 battery?! You depleted that WAY too low. That battery isn't going to last long like that. Set your alarms so you know when you get to 80% and land right there - my Naza is set to auto-land at 80%. Just buy a spare battery to swap out if you need longer total flight time and you'll save money in the long run.
 

Old Man

Active Member
Actually those diminishing returns can occur almost immediately. Depending on the weight of the aircraft and how much power was initially required to hover it's easy to spend a few hundred dollars for a dual battery install and only gain a couple of minutes of flight time. Often, less equals more;)
 

cliofreak

Member
Well, I flew today again and flew for around 10 mins and brought it in early as it was getting dark. The cells all had around 3.95V on them when I put it back on the charger. I didn't try to over stress the lipo the first time I took it out... I mean, not on purpose! It was really just a test for flight time. I only know the beeping in the past has come in way too early so I held it for 30 secs more. As Rotorfreek has mentioned, these 5800 are way more than 5800 really so the 80% margin can't be worked out with the figure 5800 as you'd be selling yourself short. Lesson learned...I need some accurate cell readings onboard and a beeper set more accurately. This 5800 is a very powerful battery. Really worth buying instead of another 2200.

Also, the 5.8 clover leaf wasn't as good as Id hoped. Breaking up about 100mtrs away. I do have the 3leaf one on the MR and its lying flat as Ive no 90deg adapter. Would that effect it? The goggles ant is pointing up.
 

SJBrit

Member
Also, the 5.8 clover leaf wasn't as good as Id hoped. Breaking up about 100mtrs away. I do have the 3leaf one on the MR and its lying flat as Ive no 90deg adapter. Would that effect it? The goggles ant is pointing up.

Yes, getting that cloverleaf on the MR in the same plane as the one on your goggle will certainly help. When I was at 5.8GHz I ran a diversity receiver on the ground with a 13dBi patch antenna and that thing rocked! I could easily go a mile - I never did test the full limits.
 

cliofreak

Member
Another test this evening. So Im getting 290 mAh/min. If we assume that the capacity is actually 5800mAh (although its underrated) then that equates to a 4640mAh draw (80%) giving 16 mins of safe flight with this weight configuration. Id did fly for 21min yesterday but that allowed 5999 to get put back in and from what I gather... thats not a good thing. Id say 18min would be safe. There's more than 5800mAh in that pack, I'm telling ya! Does this all sound correct to you guys? I also wana say that, even 15min of FPV is intense!! Im very temped to upgrade to a NAZA and get an 8ch receiver. Return to home, alt mode etc all sound very appealing.
 

Old Man

Active Member
One develops a "feel" for flight time by keeping an accurate record of each flight, how the aircraft was flown, and what the battery voltage was when it was put on the charger along with the mA count of what went back into it when the charge cycle was done. Doesn't hurt to track the charge times as well. It requires additional time and effort to do all that but in the end you know what your batteries can safely do, you develop data that will permit you to instantly see when a problem is starting to arise, and you never crash you bird, AND camera, because you ran out of battery before your bird got back to where you wanted it to be.

How you fly it impacts flight time considerably. If you take off and hover for a full battery charge you'll be in the air a lot longer than if you took off and flew fast and hard. There is no "rule of thumb" here, everything comes from data developed over multiple flights to establish trends and averages. Some slap a voltage tattletale on their aircraft and wait for it to sound off before they go for a landing. A fair number of those people end up too far away to hear the alarm and end up with broken aircraft. The wise flyer learns what the batteries do under specific flight conditions and sets a flight timer that provides plenty of safety buffer to get the bird back home and on the ground even under heavy weight and aggressive flying conditions. You'll learn you can do 5 minute flights that consume more battery than a 10 minute flight, but you absolutely must perform the homework necessary to establish that data before trying to estimate flight times off of average mA consumptions. Remember than an average is derived from multiple data sets, not just a couple. The more data collected the more accurate the results, and the better the estimate.

What we do looks like a lot of fun and games to the casual observer but if your at all serious there's a lot of behind the scenes work that takes place to establish safe flying habits and a long lasting aircraft. Message here is don't put the cart ahead of the horse. Learn what you're doing before buying more advanced components. You just found out how understanding a battery can make a tremendous difference in flight time. You also tried to destroy a new battery on one of the first flights without realizing what you were doing to it. What you learn and do now will establish how much success you'll have with more advanced equipment. Without a good foundation you'll just end up spending a lot of money on stuff to replace what broke in the last crash. Those that have the most success learn to crawl before they walk, and walk long before they try to run.
 
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Old Man

Active Member
the 5.8 clover leaf wasn't as good as Id hoped. Breaking up about 100mtrs away. I do have the 3leaf one on the MR and its lying flat as Ive no 90deg adapter. Would that effect it? The goggles ant is pointing up.

Try moving the video transmitter and antenna to one of the landing gear legs, antenna pointing down or horizontal. That usually helps a lot.
 


cliofreak

Member
Hi guys, a different question. Ive go the Naza setup now and Im wondering if I can take power from F1 or F2 so I can power my Tarot 2D gimbal. It right beside it and it would need 5V I think. I want to controll pitch of gimbal via radio tX directly rather than going through the Naza. Any help please?
 

Old Man

Active Member
I haven't used a Naza in a long time but if either is a 5v buss it will work. Same applies if you plug into a receiver channel that would provide tilt control.
 

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