Group Build 2014, DJI NAZA/F450 Quadcopter!

[williammiller]

Bart, second vid is great. Unrelated question regarding the The Multi4S charger which you recommended in earlier post... it "also needs a power supply but it will work great with a simple $20 unit from amazon or somewhere similar." What is the power supply? Is it a converter? Thanks. Bill

 

[Highflyerchick]

Hi everyone! I am new to the group! I am looking to buy a S800 Evo . I've been searching the web, most are 3-4K a pop. Anyone know where I can purchase one at a discounted rate. Anyone selling one?? Thanks!!

 

[Pleiades]

I just bought a DJI Flame Wheel F450 + Naza-M v2 Combo from Clubheli and got the discount which in fact paid for the shipping to me down here in Australia.

One question I posed previously which hasnt been answered is....Could I use my Phantom transmitter and battery to get me by on this project?

 

[Bartman]

Hello Pleiades,

I thought I answered that question, sorry about that. To use the Phantom transmitter with the NAZA there would have to be a receiver in the Phantom airframe that has discreet outputs for each channel. You'd need to be able to wire those outputs into the NAZA channel inputs. In the first video where I held up the receiver and showed how the wires go into the NAZA, if you think you can do that with what you have then you can probably use it. Another consideration is whether or not you can make adjustments to the individual channels of the transmitter. TO get the NAZA flight control system all set up and functioning properly we'll need to be able to make adjustments to the individual channels (especially to set up modes and failsafes), now that I think about it I don't think you can do that with the Phantom's transmitter.

Anyone else want to weigh in on this one?

 

[Bartman]

Bart, second vid is great. Unrelated question regarding the The Multi4S charger which you recommended in earlier post... it "also needs a power supply but it will work great with a simple $20 unit from amazon or somewhere similar." What is the power supply? Is it a converter? Thanks. Bill

most chargers are wired to use 12-25 volts DC as their power source which is great if you want to charge a few batteries using your car battery as the source of power. if you want to charge using electricity from your house (110-220 volt AC) then you need what we call a power supply, it's a converter basically, 110-220 AC converted to 12-24V DC depending on what you have and what you need.

Here's a typical converter from amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/Super-Power-S...99&sr=1-64&keywords=12v+dc+110ac+power+supply

Here are a few more
http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=B4035459

A few important details;
1. The input voltage has to match what you have at your house, typical US homes have 110V single phase, commercial buildings/equipment use 220v 3 phase. I think Europe and elsewhere use 220 single phase (which is actually two phase) but the point is the power supply has to be able to accommodate the voltage you're putting in in order to put out its rated DC voltage.

2. The power supply has to be rated at or higher than the Watts that your charger is rated for. Watts is Volts multiplied by Amps, if the charger is rated for 400 watts then the power supply needs to be able to supply that amount of power or more.

3. If you have a charger that requires an input of 12V DC then you need to make sure you're buying a power supply with a 12V DC output.


So, to sum it up, the charger is what manages and charges the batteries. The power supply is the unit that converts household power (usually AC, alternating current) to whatever your charger needs (usually 12 volt DC, direct current, the kind of voltage that batteries make).

 

[williammiller]

Thanks for clarifying the charger/power supply issue. B.

 

[COMike93yj]

Bartman,

I just stumbled across this build thread a few days ago and finally was able to register! I would LOVE to participate but I am going to be laid up from surgery for 4 months from next week. I am new to quads and would love to be able to do some FPV/Aerial stuff but at this time I can't commit. You might not get a ton of folks building at this time but I will tell you this...there are surely people that are following!!!! I will be one of them!

Keep up the outstanding work and the GREAT VIDEOS!!!!!!

Mike

 

[CaptainJustice]

most flight control systems will do fine with this build. some might plop right onto the frame and some might need for holes to be drilled. * * *

Any thoughts about the 3D Robotics Pixhawk that is about to be released?

 

[CaptainJustice]

Battery question

I am new to the quadcopter business and there is a LOT about batteries I don't yet understand. I saw Bartman's recommendation for a 4 cell, 4000 mAh battery. My question about a battery is in relation to the proposed F450 build, one to which I want to add a camera, FPV and OSD. So I am looking for payload capacity and want to stretch at much flight time as possible.

First question is in Bartman's recommendation of a 25-50C battery. Then I find on Ebay a Turnigy nano-tech 4000mah 4S 45~90C Lipo Pack, so what's the "C" rating importance in the quadcopter and is there an advantage to the 45/90C rating.

Second question is, why not go to a 5200 mAh battery? Or two of them? I'm sure there has to be a tradeoff of adding battery weight and how much power you get out of it, and I understand that this also relates to the motor used --- but I don't know what all of those relationships are.

So maybe my question really is this: What battery, ESC, motor combo would be best to get the maximum flight time out of the F450 lifting a GoPro and FPV/OSD system?

Gil

 

[akhero]

http://oddcopter.com/2012/02/06/choosing-quadcopter-motors-and-props/

 

[COMike93yj]

I am new to the quadcopter business and there is a LOT about batteries I don't yet understand. I saw Bartman's recommendation for a 4 cell, 4000 mAh battery. My question about a battery is in relation to the proposed F450 build, one to which I want to add a camera, FPV and OSD. So I am looking for payload capacity and want to stretch at much flight time as possible. First question is in Bartman's recommendation of a 25-50C battery. Then I find on Ebay a Turnigy nano-tech 4000mah 4S 45~90C Lipo Pack, so what's the "C" rating importance in the quadcopter and is there an advantage to the 45/90C rating. Second question is, why not go to a 5200 mAh battery? Or two of them? I'm sure there has to be a tradeoff of adding battery weight and how much power you get out of it, and I understand that this also relates to the motor used --- but I don't know what all of those relationships are. So maybe my question really is this: What battery, ESC, motor combo would be best to get the maximum flight time out of the F450 lifting a GoPro and FPV/OSD system? Gil

Excellent question but I fear that you will get about 100 different responses..... From what I can gather the "C" ratings are not regulated or differentiated at all....they seem to be a bit of a "manufacturer" rating. I have been attempting to do an "apples to apples" comparison but haven't found one that actually defines it........ I have to defer to the experts here.....HeliFreak, RCgroups, other sites all have threads on this and it is tough to discern what is correct ....when I say "correct" I think it depends on the use...... It seems as though there are various "subjective" tests on C ratings........I think that Bart should chime in on his opinions for just what would work (and in what environments the [our] quad build would work in)...... BTW...I'm gradually getting more and more motivated to build ..... Mk EDIT:.....securing tools and expendables .......JUST got approval from family to participate...hopefully I am not toooooooo late

 

[CaptainJustice]

* * *
Batteries:
Turnigy Nano-tech
I don't have enough knowledge yet for all the options I find.
We have 3S or 4S choice, then next choice is mah rating.
Do we simply have to decide how much fly time and how much money we want to spend on these?
So if money was no object, for our F450/550's would a 4S 5000 mah be our best bet?

* * * *​

At http://www.ecalc.ch/xcoptercalc.htm?ecalc&lang=en the calculations using the Tiger 2216-12 and a 4S battery says the max power exceeds the rating of the motor when using a 10" prop. At 8" it's in spec.

There is a LOT about the motor/prop/battery choice that I don't understand so ....

 

[Bartman]

Any thoughts about the 3D Robotics Pixhawk that is about to be released?

I don't have an opinion on it. If you choose to buy it there's a chance it won't be available when they say it will be available and then there's a chance it won't work as advertised. There are a lot of us that would love to see it succeed but if past successes (in this part of the market in general) are an indication of future performance then it's best to wait and let others figure out what's wrong with it before spending your money.

This isn't supposed to be an end-all-be-all build. Picking a flight control system remains a huge challenge as it depends on what you want and what you are willing to sacrifice to get it. I still have trouble trying to decide what to do for a new build, my hoverfly stuff works really well in certain aspects but not so well in others, same with my MK hardware. What would I replace either with if I had to try something new today??? I really don't know!

 

[Bartman]

I am new to the quadcopter business and there is a LOT about batteries I don't yet understand. I saw Bartman's recommendation for a 4 cell, 4000 mAh battery. My question about a battery is in relation to the proposed F450 build, one to which I want to add a camera, FPV and OSD. So I am looking for payload capacity and want to stretch at much flight time as possible.

First question is in Bartman's recommendation of a 25-50C battery. Then I find on Ebay a Turnigy nano-tech 4000mah 4S 45~90C Lipo Pack, so what's the "C" rating importance in the quadcopter and is there an advantage to the 45/90C rating.

Second question is, why not go to a 5200 mAh battery? Or two of them? I'm sure there has to be a tradeoff of adding battery weight and how much power you get out of it, and I understand that this also relates to the motor used --- but I don't know what all of those relationships are.

So maybe my question really is this: What battery, ESC, motor combo would be best to get the maximum flight time out of the F450 lifting a GoPro and FPV/OSD system?

Gil

first of all, this build is about something we usually overlook, restraint. we're trying to keep it simple, we're trying to make sure everyone that starts it can finish it, and we're trying to get everyone a heli they can fly and fix. Cameras, FPV, OSD, great flight times.....we can do all that but that's not the goal here. A stock F450 might do some of what you're seeking but I don't think it will do it all, although there probably is a camera/FPV/OSD combination that will be small and light enough to hitch a ride on an F450 without entirely killing duration (weight adds up and has the effect of shortening flight times).

Your last line asks about what can be done to make the F450 more of a helicopter and I say there's a limit to what you should want to do with it. There are kits to make more of an F450 than the designers intended and I'm not a huge fan of those kits. THe F450 arms are already kinda flimsy, they're durable but they twist and flex. Stretch them beyond stock and they'll twist and flex even more. Put a much bigger motor out there with a bigger prop and they'll want to twist and flex more. You can get away with it but why not just build the heli you want in the first place....IF YOU CAN. If you can, great, this probably isn't the place for you. If you can't, then this build is a good way to get started with something that will have a high probability of success from which you can then expand your horizons (I think there's a pun in there, not sure though....FPV....expand your horizons.....nevermind)

 

[Bartman]

Excellent question but I fear that you will get about 100 different responses..... From what I can gather the "C" ratings are not regulated or differentiated at all....they seem to be a bit of a "manufacturer" rating. I have been attempting to do an "apples to apples" comparison but haven't found one that actually defines it........ I have to defer to the experts here.....HeliFreak, RCgroups, other sites all have threads on this and it is tough to discern what is correct ....when I say "correct" I think it depends on the use...... It seems as though there are various "subjective" tests on C ratings........I think that Bart should chime in on his opinions for just what would work (and in what environments the [our] quad build would work in)...... BTW...I'm gradually getting more and more motivated to build ..... Mk EDIT:.....securing tools and expendables .......JUST got approval from family to participate...hopefully I am not toooooooo late

you're not too late at all, i've been off to a slow start partly because i have too much other stuff going on and partly so the ranks could have a chance to fill up as people see what we're doing.

there's a thread entirely devoted to batteries, have a look

http://www.multirotorforums.com/showthread.php?12819-Understanding-Lithium-Polymer-batteries

C ratings should be accurate but I doubt many would argue that they aren't consistent from brand to brand. my nano-tech packs seem to make the power they're supposed to and they've become the only brand i use. zippy packs seem to deliver the least power, maybe half on hot days. on cooler days they were ok.

 

[Bartman]

At http://www.ecalc.ch/xcoptercalc.htm?ecalc&lang=en the calculations using the Tiger 2216-12 and a 4S battery says the max power exceeds the rating of the motor when using a 10" prop. At 8" it's in spec.

There is a LOT about the motor/prop/battery choice that I don't understand so ....

according to Tiger's application data they should be fine with 4S and 10" props.

View attachment 14786

 

[Zeke]

Bartman,

I just stumbled across this build thread a few days ago and finally was able to register! I would LOVE to participate but I am going to be laid up from surgery for 4 months from next week. I am new to quads and would love to be able to do some FPV/Aerial stuff but at this time I can't commit. You might not get a ton of folks building at this time but I will tell you this...there are surely people that are following!!!! I will be one of them!

Keep up the outstanding work and the GREAT VIDEOS!!!!!!

Mike

I too won't be able to participate for about 5 months myself. Maybe we can do another one in 6 months with all of the lessons learned from this one.

 

[Bartman]

hi everyone,

sorry for the long delay in getting out the next video, it was to happen saturday and then I woke up to a travel assignment for work so i'm away from my shop for the next few days.

anyone in tokyo want to do some flying? :nevreness: any good hobby shops in the city?

 

[Crisp image]

I have all the parts to build my F450 but am not allowed until Christmas. that is still 30 days away!! Well I guess I get to watch videos before I build so I will be good to go on Christmas Day.
Regards
Crispy

 

[Motopreserve]

Anybody?

I think the general rule is that you need twice the amount of thrust as the weight of your craft. I've been having a hell of a time getting the math down for these things - especially because most products don't list all the info you need to calculate thrust.

Bart: great idea and thread. Seriously, I haven't seen another one like this. I will certainly be following along, and I'm sure this will be helping me with my own build. Videos are great - and you seem to be getting more comfortable in front of the red light.