Group Build 2014, DJI NAZA/F450 Quadcopter!

J

.jon

Member
I'm about the get my initial kit list ready, looking for comments on the parts selection and whether I'm missing or misunderstood something!

Usage: learning to fly (LOS), possibly FPV later with Disco-style frame mod, but probably no AP. My first RC.

DJI F450 frame + spare arms
FC: OpenPilot CC3D by Drotek ​http://www.drotek.fr/shop/en/home/149-fc-coptercontrol-cc3dopenpilot.html + case for it!
(I wanted the Revolution but looks like I have to wait for them to become more widely available, CC3D is mature tech and will get me into the OpenPilot ecosystem. I want to get deeper under the hood than what DJI systems allow.)
ESCs: Flyduino NFET 20A SimonK http://flyduino.net/Flyduino-NFET-HEXFET-20A-ESC-SimonK-Firmware_1
Motors: Flyduino X2216 900kV http://flyduino.net/Multikopter-Brushless-Motor-Multicopter_15
Props: various 8,9 and 10" props to test the effects of size on handling, flight time etc and for spares
Batteries: various 3S lipos of different sizes, still hunting for best price/weight options from domestic shops

Radio: FrSky Taranis
Rx: FrSky X8R https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking...US_ACCST_Telemetry_Receiver_W_Smart_Port.html

Soldering station, wire stripper, decent lipo charger (after reading up on LiPos this is a piece of kit I'm not willing to skimp on), tapes, zip ties, wire. Hoover bags so I can clean up the sawdust from the shop! :D

The build is sitting at about 920g (with an average 2200mAH lipo and a guesstimate for assembly hardware) and under 400eur at the moment (Tx and tools excluded).

Questions:

Powering the FC and Rx? I'm unsure whether those ESCs come with BECs or are opto, and I'd anyway possibly like a separate power solution for the FC&Rx. Should I get an UBEC like this? http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18789__5V_5A_UBEC_2_5S_Lipoly_7_2_21v_.html. The FC can supply power to the Rx via two pins, is that advisable or route power directly to the Rx?

Motor considerations: This is the area where I'm struggling most. First of all I'm unsure about the physical mounting dimension of the F450 motor slots, and motor manufacturers seem to be using pretty much whatever measurements in their model names. I'd prefer decent quality and relatively quiet motors, and I'm probably looking for better flight times and steady handling over speed or acrobatic power for now. Availability in Europe and also the appearance are considerations, I don't want even my first multi to be a rainbow vomit :)

Telemetry / battery alarm: The FrSky radio combo is capable of telemetry with additional sensors, would that be a reliable solutions for monitoring flight battery voltage or should I get a basic led/buzzer low voltage alarm?

Thanks in advance if you read this far!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Bartman

Bartman

Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
Hi folks...Video 7 is up...it's a bit long but I think the really new guys will appreciate the steps outlined in it.

Let me know what you think....sometimes I have to do the same thing over and over again to get the video just right (How Les Stroud does what he does is beyond me!) and my brain begins to go mushy...if there's anything that needs to be clarified please let me know. I have a couple of small edits that are rendering now and it should be updated and uploaded in a few hours.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

D

Dyver76

Member
I have been following along with this build. I have the DJI 450 with the Naza lite controller. I haven't had a chance to take it out to an open field to fly yet but I have tried to get it off the ground in my yard. the problem I am having is it wants to flip over at the moment of take off. I checked to make sure I have the proper rotation on the motor and that the props are going to right way. is there anything else that could be causing this? Like the compass calibration?
 

Bartman

Bartman

Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
Dyver,

In the NAZA product review that I just posted I included this list of common mistakes


  • Front of NAZA IMU is pointing towards the back of the helicopter (motor wires should be plugged into the FRONT of the NAZA)
  • NAZA needs to be mounted upright (upside down is baaaaddddd, you didn't do that, right?)
  • NAZA components are not plugged into each other correctly
  • Controls calibration not completed successfully (Use NAZA Assistant to check this)
  • Controls are reversed (Use NAZA Assistant to check them)
  • ESC's have not been calibrated (DJI 30A Opto ESC's do not need to be calibrated)
  • One or more motor directions are reversed (switch any two of the three motor-to-ESC connections to reverse the direction of the motor)
  • One or more motors are plugged into the wrong slots of the NAZA
  • One or more propellers are on the wrong motors or upside down
  • Radio transmitter is set to Heli instead of Acro
  • One or more receiver channels are plugged into the wrong input ports of the NAZA
  • Old channel mixes in your transmitter are messing things up
  • Flight battery is dead or close to dead

feel free to ask questions if anything from the list is confusing.
 

D

Dyver76

Member
Bartman said:
Dyver,

In the NAZA product review that I just posted I included this list of common mistakes


  • Front of NAZA IMU is pointing towards the back of the helicopter (motor wires should be plugged into the FRONT of the NAZA)
  • NAZA needs to be mounted upright (upside down is baaaaddddd, you didn't do that, right?)
  • NAZA components are not plugged into each other correctly
  • Controls calibration not completed successfully (Use NAZA Assistant to check this)
  • Controls are reversed (Use NAZA Assistant to check them)
  • ESC's have not been calibrated (DJI 30A Opto ESC's do not need to be calibrated)
  • One or more motor directions are reversed (switch any two of the three motor-to-ESC connections to reverse the direction of the motor)
  • One or more motors are plugged into the wrong slots of the NAZA
  • One or more propellers are on the wrong motors or upside down
  • Radio transmitter is set to Heli instead of Acro
  • One or more receiver channels are plugged into the wrong input ports of the NAZA
  • Old channel mixes in your transmitter are messing things up
  • Flight battery is dead or close to dead

feel free to ask questions if anything from the list is confusing.
Click to expand...

Thanks that helped. I had motor 1 and motor 2 swapped on the FC. Seems to be working now. I doubled checked everything on the assistant several times but did not think about checking motor wires. Now I just need the snow to go away so I can do a test flight
 

CaptainJustice

CaptainJustice

Member
CaptainJustice said:
(hope this is not a dupe -- thought I had posted it)
The die is cast for the next iteration: SunnySky 3508 700kv motors enroute, Aimdroix aluminum (extended) arms ordered, props from 12x3.8 to 14x4.7 ordered. That'll make it a 550.

Thinking of moving to a FW550 frame but with only 4 arms, i.e. keep it as a quad with bigger center structure.
Questions: anyone see a problem there? Will the symmetry be as a quad? Looks like it would be.
Anyone have 550 frame plates they'd like to part with?

Gil
Click to expand...
I got the New motors mounted after a little dremmel work on the DJI legs. Mounted the 1147 props and boy is it overpowered for now! My AUW with GoPro and 4100 35C 4s battery is 1907. Don't have the Aimdroix legs in yet.
 

G

gomotomoto

Member
Great vid Bart. Super job. Try not to freeze outside in the snow like jack Torrence in 'the shining'


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

coreyperez

coreyperez

Member
CaptainJustice,

Good to know, my stock 550 with a 5000mah and stock motors/8" props can hardly arrest its descent without about 20' to perform the arrest. (This is me doing a rapid descent). Few times I've been really happy I haven't moved up to the Gimbal/landing gear yet!

I only have the 8's on while "learning" because it seems nobody likes these so I figured they were expendable.

Corey
 


J

.jon

Member
coreyperez said:
I just tallied up my 9 flights with my Hex (Naza-M) and I've got 1hr 24min & 20sec!

Yeah me!

Corey
Click to expand...

Congrats! Nice going, can't wait to get in the air, will be a few months I'm afraid.

One more question- how about painting the top and bottom plates of the frame? I'm not too hot on the black/gold looks and might just rattle can it matte white, if that doesn't mess up with the power distribution.
 

G

gomotomoto

Member
Few questions related to video 7:

1. If manual, attitude and gps modes are on a 3 way switch, where does the fail safe get programmed eventually. I'm confused here cause they are on the same slider on the software, which makes me think they have to all be on the same switch.

2. If I have a charged LiPo on the bench to do the setup and don't intend to fly it for a while, do I de-charge it down when done? From the other threads, I've read not to store these with a charge.

3. When your done the naza setup does it need any kind of confirm or enter, or do the update transfer on the fly.

4. Why did the blue light stay on even after you set up the naza? I see that didn't go out when you finished up

Again, thanks Bart!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Bartman

Bartman

Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
gomotomoto said:
Few questions related to video 7:

1. If manual, attitude and gps modes are on a 3 way switch, where does the fail safe get programmed eventually. I'm confused here cause they are on the same slider on the software, which makes me think they have to all be on the same switch.
Click to expand...

To configure the FailSafe feature you have to program a mix in your radio. Most guys that have been flying RC their whole lives have never programmed a mix. A mix will add two channels together so it allows you to influence one channel with the input of another. Heli's used to have a bad habit of popping up or dropping down if you tried to yaw too quickly and a potential fix was to have the throttle react a little to yaw input, that's another example of a mix. in our case we need to program a two position switch to reposition the slider into the FailSafe area when it's flipped. I'll try to explain it in another video.

2. If I have a charged LiPo on the bench to do the setup and don't intend to fly it for a while, do I de-charge it down when done? From the other threads, I've read not to store these with a charge.
Click to expand...
the battery doesn't have to be fully charged to do the set-up but if it already is and it's going to sit for a long time then it's a good idea to discharge it back to about 3.7-3.8 volts per cell

3. When your done the naza setup does it need any kind of confirm or enter, or do the update transfer on the fly.
Click to expand...
some of the programming items require you to hit enter or click an enter button but most don't. good practice is to first close the NAZA Assistant, then disconnect power from the Heli, then turn off the radio, then pull the USB cable......then power everything up again and reconnect it to the Assistant to check that your settings all stayed the way you want them.

4. Why did the blue light stay on even after you set up the naza? I see that didn't go out when you finished up
Click to expand...
i messed up my explanation of the blue light! that's why! here's the NAZA wiki page

http://wiki.dji.com/en/index.php/Naza-M_Assistant_Software_Installation

it's a computer-NAZA activity light, you can see it's blinking erratically representing the flow of stuff back and forth.


Thanks for the good questions!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]
 

Dezy

Dezy

Member
Binding Futaba 14sg and R7008sb

Bart - Thanks for the latest video. The explanation of the radio travel adjustments using the popsicle sticks was great. But I'm kinda stuck at the beginning with supplying the correct voltage to the receiver, in order to bind it with the radio.
I have a Futaba 14sg radio and its R7008sb receiver. Is it OK to attach a 1-cell lipo / 3.7 volts, to the channel 7 of the receiver, with positive at the top pin, nothing at the middle and negative at the bottom.
I’d hate to smoke the RX before its even mounted to the MR!:dread:
Thank you
 

Bartman

Bartman

Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
Dezy said:
Bart - Thanks for the latest video. The explanation of the radio travel adjustments using the popsicle sticks was great. But I'm kinda stuck at the beginning with supplying the correct voltage to the receiver, in order to bind it with the radio.
I have a Futaba 14sg radio and its R7008sb receiver. Is it OK to attach a 1-cell lipo / 3.7 volts, to the channel 7 of the receiver, with positive at the top pin, nothing at the middle and negative at the bottom.
I’d hate to smoke the RX before its even mounted to the MR!:dread:
Thank you
Click to expand...

Dezy,

The receiver gets power from the NAZA so there shouldn't be any need for a separate battery. You can do the bind process with the receiver hooked up to the NAZA and powered via the VU/PMU without it affecting the NAZA. Receivers usually need at least 4.8 volts if being powered separately.

Thanks,
Bart
 

Dezy

Dezy

Member
Super - thanks, Bart! On a separate note, I noticed your X configuration, with the wider spaced arms for AP. Would it be possible to get this using an F550 frame and not using two of the arms?
 

G

gomotomoto

Member

Bartman

Bartman

Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
Dezy said:
Super - thanks, Bart! On a separate note, I noticed your X configuration, with the wider spaced arms for AP. Would it be possible to get this using an F550 frame and not using two of the arms?
Click to expand...

Dezy, yes, you can give that a try...it's been done with other hexa frames.
 


Dezy

Dezy

Member
Great - thanks again for the quick reply. I'll try that route, since I've obsessed/procrastinated for this long - what's another week to start his build!
 

J

.jon

Member
.jon said:
I'm about the get my initial kit list ready, looking for comments on the parts selection and whether I'm missing or misunderstood something!

Usage: learning to fly (LOS), possibly FPV later with Disco-style frame mod, but probably no AP. My first RC.

DJI F450 frame + spare arms
FC: OpenPilot CC3D by Drotek ​http://www.drotek.fr/shop/en/home/149-fc-coptercontrol-cc3dopenpilot.html + case for it!
(I wanted the Revolution but looks like I have to wait for them to become more widely available, CC3D is mature tech and will get me into the OpenPilot ecosystem. I want to get deeper under the hood than what DJI systems allow.)
ESCs: Flyduino NFET 20A SimonK http://flyduino.net/Flyduino-NFET-HEXFET-20A-ESC-SimonK-Firmware_1
Motors: Flyduino X2216 900kV http://flyduino.net/Multikopter-Brushless-Motor-Multicopter_15
Props: various 8,9 and 10" props to test the effects of size on handling, flight time etc and for spares
Batteries: various 3S lipos of different sizes, still hunting for best price/weight options from domestic shops

Radio: FrSky Taranis
Rx: FrSky X8R https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking...US_ACCST_Telemetry_Receiver_W_Smart_Port.html

Soldering station, wire stripper, decent lipo charger (after reading up on LiPos this is a piece of kit I'm not willing to skimp on), tapes, zip ties, wire. Hoover bags so I can clean up the sawdust from the shop! :D

The build is sitting at about 920g (with an average 2200mAH lipo and a guesstimate for assembly hardware) and under 400eur at the moment (Tx and tools excluded).

Questions:

Powering the FC and Rx? I'm unsure whether those ESCs come with BECs or are opto, and I'd anyway possibly like a separate power solution for the FC&Rx. Should I get an UBEC like this? http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18789__5V_5A_UBEC_2_5S_Lipoly_7_2_21v_.html. The FC can supply power to the Rx via two pins, is that advisable or route power directly to the Rx?

Motor considerations: This is the area where I'm struggling most. First of all I'm unsure about the physical mounting dimension of the F450 motor slots, and motor manufacturers seem to be using pretty much whatever measurements in their model names. I'd prefer decent quality and relatively quiet motors, and I'm probably looking for better flight times and steady handling over speed or acrobatic power for now. Availability in Europe and also the appearance are considerations, I don't want even my first multi to be a rainbow vomit :)

Telemetry / battery alarm: The FrSky radio combo is capable of telemetry with additional sensors, would that be a reliable solutions for monitoring flight battery voltage or should I get a basic led/buzzer low voltage alarm?

Thanks in advance if you read this far!
Click to expand...

Adding bullet connectors(?) for the ESCs and motors, some Loctite and a prop balancer to the list. Still wondering about the telemetry and power things!
 

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