Bartman
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FPV Racing
- Thread starter Diviner Gregg
- Start date
TahoeTim
Member
I ordered and received a Hovership yesterday. It's 3d printed. Since I own a 3d printer, I think its the way of the future for racers. I am printing extra arms ans body pieces. I want to start a spec class here in Tahoe using Hoverships. Keeping it as cheap as possible should keep racers coming back.
Diviner Gregg
Member
Woah. You are correct. It was NOT soma. My bad. That data came from Mustang. My apologies to soma and I have edited the source. I would imagine the data came from the first batch of v2 motors that had all the quality control issues. Again, apologizes to soma.
I have not found any thrust data by one reliable source comparing cobra 2204, dys1806, sunnysky 2204, hoverthing? 2204, T motor 2204 and emax 2204. I have to cobble the data by comparing relative sources. You can PM me with links to have all those thrust tests, I would appreciate it.
As for why not 5x4.5 bn, because they are new and frequently out of stock. Plus, there will always be a new "better" blade. We want to stay with one size throughout the entire season so racers always maintain a good supply in their flight case. For 2016 we may change to the bullnose in the spec class if we see stock being maintained by retailers over an extend period of time.
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Diviner Gregg
Member
Yes I think there is a terminology problem here. Moving the stick more or less is not resolution, it is "stick travel". How many steps the FC see's in the full stick travel is "resolution". An FC will see a PWM signal ranging from 1000 to 2000. With something like a DX8 (I think that's what you fly) with 100% dual rates in the tx the naze32 FC will see a step range between 1150 and 1850. If you increase the tx dual rates to 125% the FC will see closer to 1000 - 2000 range. More step in the same stick travel means better resolution and In turn a smoother flying quad.
Now of course what you've done by increases the dual rates is make the quad faster responding and yes you want to bring the rates down to a level that stops it being hard to control as you previously stated but the way to do that is reduce the RC rate in the Naze 32 which will reduce it without compromising theresolution. This is similar to what you are talking about with increasing the throttle resolution.
Another thing to consider is to add a bit of roll/pitch rate. This reduces your PID's as you move you stick away from centre so works kind of like expo... But different
I have a dx8 (125% travel) and now use only the taranis (95 to 105 travel). The dual rate issue could be accomplished with 2 different profiles in the naze, but I like to keep as much on the tx so I can do field adjustments easily and also get voice alerts. So I use 1 naze profile and let the tx change the rates.
I don't increase the dual rates on the tx, I lower them for racing. So my pwm output is reduced from say 2000 to 1850 for roll and pitch. That way I can change them in real time. I can't do real time changes with naze profiles.
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Final Glide
Member
Good to see you've found it. The Warpquad's main purpose is as a LOS acro quad but we have been working on FPV racing versions like SOma's Z-Pod conversion. Hopefully some day soon there will be a Z-Pod kit out but not straight away.
Here is Soma flying a standard 230mm Warpquad
I've since put higher kv motors on it
As for what FPV racer to get, well thats a complicated question as there are so many frames out there. The group I fly with have a few designers in it. As well as Soma there is Blackout who is fairly well known, Coptergeist who makes the CGX250 and another friend who has some proto frames being tested. The cheap chinese knock off frames are cheap but nasty. They have bad designs and will break easy with the below par carbon that's used. I fly a Blackout mini H for my 5' setup and although it is rather expensive I just can't kill it not matter how hard I try and the quality of the frame is excellent.
Here is the Blackout in action. This was the first test flights on 4s with the KISS esc's when they first came out. Apologies for the camera angle. My Mobius cameras now have a 30 deg tilt.
You can't really go wrong with any of the name brand mini quads out there. The Minion, Blackout, RD230 all perform well. It's like cars, everyone has their favorite make but really all the better quality brands perform pretty well similar and it's only when you get really good that you notice the difference. I would suggest starting out with 5" props and 3s. 4s and or 6" props yields amazing performance but you need to know how to handle it. Plus you need to know how to tune it. For a Flight controller I would suggest the Naze 32. The CC#D is no way near as locked in and the KK2 board pail in comparison. For motors I would suggest the 2204 2300kv range. You can't really go wrong with either Sunnysky or Cobra. People's fav motor is like cars again. Just know that the really cheap motors are cheap for a reason but that doesn't mean you shouldn't buy them if your budget doesn't allow for something a little more expensive. On 3s there are plenty of esc's that you can run and too many to list. Just make sure you have the correct version of SimonK FW or the right settings on BLHeli when using pancake motors like the 2204's or you could fry them. Me personally, I use KISS esc's and love the huge difference that the regenerative braking makes. As for props, You can easily learn on GemFan 5030 but once you've got a handle on the quad it's best to move up to something that is not so weak and flexible. A HQ 5x4 is a good next step but the HQ 5x4.5 bullnose Glass/Carbon blend props are the bees knees when it come to 5" props. Soma came up with the idea ages ago and my group have been cutting down the old FC 6x4.5 props before Soma convinced HQ prop to make their version of the 6x4.5 and then convinced them to make the Bullnose which is just a cutdown 6x4.5 as we have been making by hand all this time. The glass/nylon blend make for a really stiff yet durable prop. I love them!!! Just remember that they have a much higher current draw so need a more capable battery to can take it. I run a Nanotech 1800 4s 65-120c. Not the A'spec versions though. They're hopeless!
Anyway, If there is any other questions you have I'm happy to help out.
Here's some rough footage of some race testing we were doing a while ago.
Final Glide
Member
That's OK mate
, I just don't like Soma to be miss quoted. He's a great bloke and does excellent thrust tests. There are a few misleading thrust tests out there that need redoing. One important thing about his thrust tests also is that he includes the RPM numbers so you also get a rough guide for top speeds which is important to know. Most others don't. I can't really send any links to more recent thrusts tests as a lot are not on the net. Soma still does a fair but of thrust testing but just doesn't have the time to post it online these days. Try googling Soma Thrust test or check out his blogs on RCGroups for any tests he has posted. I'll just say that sticking with the 2204 motors is a good idea (except for the Tiger Motor 2204 which is under powered).
Sticking with the 5x4's until the class can upgrade is a good idea if there is a control prop. If you do test out the 5x4.5's just remember that they have a much higher current draw and the 1300 batteries won't handle it well over time. The batteries I use are listed above.
Final Glide
Member
There is no reason why you can't reduce your dual rates on your tx, just know that you are reducing your resolution by doing it that way instead of doing it directly in the FC. At full dual rates on the tx you will have 1000 steps of resolution from full left aileron to full right aileron no matter what your rates are on the FC even if they are really low. If you instead drop you tx rates down to say 60% you now only have about 500 steps of resolution which effects the very smoothness you are trying to achieve. If you are wanting to change settings in something like a Naze 32 it is very easy to hook up a tiny 3.3v Bluetooth module which will connect to an andriod phone and you can change many parameters right there and then. Of course there is always a laptop.
Diviner Gregg
Member
For Opentx racers . . .
Diviner Gregg
Member
Here's a new FPV Race School video about obstacles types. Learn about duck unders, fly overs, doorways, thread the needles and elevation changes. Important building blocks for designing natural FPV race courses.
Diviner Gregg
Member
thank you sir!