Castle Edge HV not starting Tiger U8?

[rallymattSFP]

Hello,

Having some trouble with my new build. I've built 12 multirotors with various Chineese ESC's but this is my first Castle ESC build and I must be missing something.

Motors are Tiger U8 170kv

Power is currently 6S for testing

ESC are Phoenix Edge HV 40a with multirotor firmware. Currently V4.19

Controller is WKM.

Wired everything up, that's all good. Tried motor test in WKM Assistant and I get very very faint clicking from some of the motors. Weird.

So I plug one ESC direct to throttle channel on my Futaba RX. Set endpoints based on Castle instructions. ESC Arms, give throttle and same thing, a little clicking but no movement. After ~3 seconds the ESC shuts off and flashes 2 red LED indicating ESC failed to start motor.

Tried with a spare old Cobra 2826 and it works fine. So I know it's not some wiring issue. ESC beeps on the Tiger Motors are super quiet too. Loud on the 2826. So I am pretty positive it is the ESC's themselves. All of them do the same though, so is it an incompatibility with high pole motors or something?

Tried using castle link to change timing, motor start power, voltage cutoff etc... and am out of ideas...

 

[kloner]

think you need high timing,,,,, you have pancake motors now.... if that doesn't work they might be incompatible for some reason, maybe software related

 

[rallymattSFP]

think you need high timing,,,,, you have pancake motors now.... if that doesn't work they might be incompatible for some reason, maybe software related

Thanks. Tried high timing. That was one of the first things I attempted.

I've had issues in the past with other high pole motors on Turnigy ESCs, like stalling/cogging etc.. But this is different. The motors never start or twitch or anything. Just a tiny very faint little click.

 

[kloner]

do you have a simonK esc you can try? might want to look at tiger esc's.

 

[rallymattSFP]

do you have a simonK esc you can try? might want to look at tiger esc's.

Yea, I have a bunch of regular voltage (6S) SimonK laying around, but was really hoping to use the castles as I like the data logging.

Some people have mentioned the SimonK having problems with high pole motors, and I'd prefer not to re-wire it all now that everything is installed.

Frustrating as I can't find any info on Castle Edge HV and multirotor, maybe there is a reason for that

 

[rallymattSFP]

Yea, I have a bunch of regular voltage (6S) SimonK laying around, but was really hoping to use the castles as I like the data logging.

Some people have mentioned the SimonK having problems with high pole motors, and I'd prefer not to re-wire it all now that everything is installed.

Frustrating as I can't find any info on Castle Edge HV and multirotor, maybe there is a reason for that

So just a heads up.

Castle ESC's DO NOT WORK with high pole motors. I just spoke with engineering at Castle and they informed me there is no way to get the Castle's working with the Tiger U8 or any high pole motor.

I wish that was documented before hand.

Thanks Castle. Now I have 8 brand new HV ESC's just sitting here.

 

[FerdinandK]

Tiger ESCs and Hobbywing ESCs are working (let´s say they are pretty similar ). I am using Hobbywing 70HV and Hobbywing 80HV together with the U8. (and 30A Platinum and 40A Platinum if for 6S only)

best regards
Ferdinand

 

[SoCal Blur]

Here's a somewhat related question... at what point is a motor considered "high pole?" Or does that vary by mfgr?

 

[kloner]

I believe it starts around 22-24 pole.....

that really sucks, now you need to find 8 people with 450-550 trex 3d helis to sell em too... 40 amp aint much in srh land.... try helifreak/runryder along with rcgroups classifieds, there still worth money

 

[RTRyder]

So just a heads up.

Castle ESC's DO NOT WORK with high pole motors. I just spoke with engineering at Castle and they informed me there is no way to get the Castle's working with the Tiger U8 or any high pole motor.

I wish that was documented before hand.

Thanks Castle. Now I have 8 brand new HV ESC's just sitting here.

The beta version of the Castle multirotor firmware, V 4.19, says in the release notes that it has enhancements for high timing and high pole count motors, you may want to try reloading it before throwing in the towel.

FWIW, I have a set of the Castle Multi Rotor 35 ESCs and so far they work fine with a set of 22 pole 390kv pancake motors on 6S, not all that expensive as Castle products go and they appear to work well in the very limited run time I've had with them so far. If the weather cooperates I hope to give them a good workout this weekend to see if they do anything weird with the big motors. The same setup had issues with SimonK firmware on a set of all nFET ESCs, changed the timing in the code, recompiled and reflashed and they still weren't right so now I'm giving the Castle a shot at making it work right.

Ken

 

[rallymattSFP]

Well.....

I got 8 Hobbywing 70Amps today to try. They don't work either.

I've built 8-10 multirotors since 2009 and have seen a lot of issues, never encountered this before.

I have tried 4,6,8,12s power. The castle and the hobbywings, and some SimonK 60A Maytechs. Nothing works.

I even took the motors off the frame, and cut my wiring that I spent hours on. So I could make a direct simple connection from the ESC to the motor and Lipo. So it is all sitting on my table and I still can't get the motors to spin. The ESC's don't make noise usually either, or if they do, it is very faint and quiet. If I plug in any other motor I have laying around - everything works fine.

I have tried, High, Medium, Low timing. New wiring, removal and direct solder of bullets, brake settings, voltage cut settings. All that stuff.

This is the best I have been able to get. This is the Hobbywing 70A on 12S direct to ESC. High timing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSLMAmfesqE

But the motor gets really hot, really fast and is obviously not right.

 

[kloner]

are you absolutely positive the motor mounting bolts are not up in the stator? man, that's gotta be frustrating. I've seen a bunch of the u8 flying....

 

[FerdinandK]

@rallymattSFP

I am sorry to read that. Possibly this is related to the 170 KV. To me the sound of the motors is like a phase would be missing.

best regards
Ferdinand

 

[kloner]

that's what made me ask the bolt question, like a wire is missing off each motor......2 of the 3 wires plugged in does that exact thing....

 

[rallymattSFP]

that's what made me ask the bolt question, like a wire is missing off each motor......2 of the 3 wires plugged in does that exact thing....

And that was it! Essentially. Resolved now.

Here is how for those in the future... even though somewhat embarrassing.

The U8's wire leads are different than most of the brushless motors I have dealt with. Instead of a fine strand wire, they are a thick strand copper. 4 strands only, similar to household wiring almost. They come pre-tinned. Since I try to avoid bullets I cut the tinned end off and wrapped them around my wire extensions that run through my frame and soldered them. This is how I have been doing it for a few years now.

Today while trying to eliminate all variables I was down to the last 2 I could think of. A - Motor wires too long (1400mm frame) and B - Connection at motor. I thought B couldn't be it because it was a spliced solder. In the interest of eliminating everything I cut the motor wires again, and when I went to re-tin the ends I noticed they needed a TON of heat, and then I put bullets on them so I could swap ESC's easier for testing. Tried the 70A Hobbywings and it worked. First time ever. So then I went back and looked at my other connections. They were physically solid, I couldn't pull them lose. But after de-soldering and cutting them, the tiger wires were not fully solder penetrated. So I re-tinned those with lots and lots of heat and solder connected them to my motor extensions and that worked too.

So in the end, it was a simple bad connection between the motor wires, and my extension wires. I've never had that problem before, but I've never soldered thick 4 conductor copper wiring.

Thanks for the help!

 

[kloner]

the strong recover, nicely done

 

[seattle_helo]

Wonder if your Castle controllers would work with them after all. Did you try?

nick

 

[rallymattSFP]

Wonder if your Castle controllers would work with them after all. Did you try?

nick

Yea, I did.

They sorta work now. But not reliably. Kinda like when you use a Plush on a high pole motor and they click a bit and there is a jam risk. They start, and sorta move, but feels like something is not quite right.

I will test more tomorrow with them though as I'd really like to use them.