CAA Qualifications (UK)

[Mick Koi]

Hi all, i was just sat wondering how many, if any of the UK forum members have done the UAV Pilot Qualification? I know this is only needed if intending on commercial paid work, so has anyone done it? intending to do it etc? Ive gave it a little bit of thought about something id like to do in the future... I'm interested to know peoples thoughts on the learning, and exam(s) etc... or on the flip side if people think its even a waste of time or even unnecessary? whats ur views ?

 

[Droider]

There are a goodly few on here including myself. Is it worth it.. I guess you need to weigh up your requirements and research your market to answer that one. Its no walk in the park but neither should it be.

Ill try and post some links to various threads but if you reach BNUC or EuroUSE on here you will find them.

Dave

 

[Jumpy07]

Hi Mick,

BNUC Part 1 course is relatively easy.. Opps manual is a barrier and issue for most people.. then you have your flight test to the procedures in your opps manual.

Last count there was a little over 100 BNUC's in UK... I am told that over 300 have taken the Part 1... which kinda enforces that the opps manual is a barrier to most.

If you are going to fly for commercial gain then BNUC or RPQs is a must.. no getting round it.. dont underestimate cost of setting up an AP business.. BNUC will cost you @ £1500 .. insurance @£800pa and annual registration with CAA and Log reviews @ £150 (depends on weight of frame)... add aircraft.. camera gimbal.. spares.. PC's, software.. transport, marketing.. website etc etc etc.. and it will bring tears to your eyes.

Too many people jumping on the AP business track at the moment who have not done their basic business plan, market analysis... I would start there first before even contemplating getting your permission for aerial work. Flying a multi is only a small part of running a successful business...

Craig

 

[RCJardin]

I have been looking into this for awhile and detect already customer resistance to paying a proper rate for aerial shooting even though the daily rate would only be equivalent to less than an hours worth of real helicopter flying. I have heard of production having a mate with a Phantom ready to knock off some aerials!

 

[Mick Koi]

Thanks for those replies lads..... and as a total newbie ill be honest and say i have given the aerial platform business some thought, its something I'm interested in and more importantly something i feel id enjoy getting out of bed to do, the question is tho.... is there business there? and are the customers out there? there the big questions!

The course and qualifications... up until Craig's post stating a large proportion don't go on to take Part 2, id ov thought i had the brain power to get through it and learn it, but I'm re thinking that now ha!

a for potential customers possibly not wanting to pay 'proper rates'... what are proper rates for various elements of aerial work?

Would some of the established business men on here mind divulging rates etc that customers are charged for say photos? short edited video clips etc? half days works?
i anticipate the prices aren't massive, but it would be really good to know roughly?

 

[Jumpy07]

This is where a business plan really becomes important.. you need to do some research.. who is you competition, whats your target market, whats the addressable spend, what would you need to charge to make it worth your while.. how many days will the weather be ok to fly ..

If you are thinking of doing vanilla video and pictures.. then you will be in the "me too" segment.. you need to go where the perceived value is... (please dont ask where this is.. after all you will be a competitor lol)

Flying for a hobby.. is very different than doing it for a living.. it can quickly become a chore... as I said earlier.. Flying is only one part of running an AP business. personally I was a Photographer before a multi flier.. but have still had to learn how to do good aerial video work... so ask yourself.. what skills do I have.. and which ones do I need to be successful ...

There is no such thing a a standard half day or full day charge.. but usually that is what the client wants to know.. .. every job is different.. you need to demonstrate value and the return for your skills will go up accordingly.

 

[Mick Koi]

This is where a business plan really becomes important.. you need to do some research.. who is you competition, whats your target market, whats the addressable spend, what would you need to charge to make it worth your while.. how many days will the weather be ok to fly ..

If you are thinking of doing vanilla video and pictures.. then you will be in the "me too" segment.. you need to go where the perceived value is... (please dont ask where this is.. after all you will be a competitor lol)

Flying for a hobby.. is very different than doing it for a living.. it can quickly become a chore... as I said earlier.. Flying is only one part of running an AP business. personally I was a Photographer before a multi flier.. but have still had to learn how to do good aerial video work... so ask yourself.. what skills do I have.. and which ones do I need to be successful ...

There is no such thing a a standard half day or full day charge.. but usually that is what the client wants to know.. .. every job is different.. you need to demonstrate value and the return for your skills will go up accordingly.

I've never really been one for business plans, I'm more of a... got an idea...thats it, I'm going for it kinda man! ha! (this method has been known to fail once or a ten times) but i do know the importance of putting the hours in researching all the different elements of a new venture, especially one such as AP based. and i appreciate the honest answers uv given, thanks.
I suppose the only way to decide on such a venture is to research the hell out ov it and see how i feel after that, then see if its plausible or not.

 

[Mick Koi]

can anyone who is qualified please shed any light into what the second phase of the training/qualification etc is, i believe the first part is the theory etc, but the second half is the log keeping, safety etc and practical etc, but after reading that 2/3rds of those who do part 1 never go onto to do part 2, I'm wondering why exactly, after spending the best part of a grand on part 1?... is part 2, too difficult etc? the lady at EuroUSC told me that part 2 can only be completed after plenty of flights etc, but she was quite vague, can anyone fill me in please?... thanks

 

[rilot]

can anyone who is qualified please shed any light into what the second phase of the training/qualification etc is, i believe the first part is the theory etc, but the second half is the log keeping, safety etc and practical etc, but after reading that 2/3rds of those who do part 1 never go onto to do part 2, I'm wondering why exactly, after spending the best part of a grand on part 1?... is part 2, too difficult etc? the lady at EuroUSC told me that part 2 can only be completed after plenty of flights etc, but she was quite vague, can anyone fill me in please?... thanks

It's the operation manual creation. It's a tough document to get your head around and few will be willing to help with it as it's intellectual property.
This part puts people off or drives them to can it.

 

[Bowley]

Also you have to think about, after you have shelled out a fair whack on certification, the cost of maintaining your certification, renewals of BNUC and CAA Permissions each year and any major change in any system, or change of system requires another flight test and another CAA Permission. There is a good thread on here somewhere about the Cost of doing business, it all adds up up and the trick is to find clients prepared to pay what the service is worth and required to be a viable business. which is not easy.

 

[Mick Koi]

It's the operation manual creation. It's a tough document to get your head around and few will be willing to help with it as it's intellectual property.
This part puts people off or drives them to can it.

thanks for the reply pal, so the operation manual, can you please be a little more clear for me, so is it a document that the would be student would actually need create themselves from scratch an then implement or... where u state its a difficult document to get ur head around,... is there a template type document they give you as a guide to work from etc, thanks you

 

[Mick Koi]

Also you have to think about, after you have shelled out a fair whack on certification, the cost of maintaining your certification, renewals of BNUC and CAA Permissions each year and any major change in any system, or change of system requires another flight test and another CAA Permission. There is a good thread on here somewhere about the Cost of doing business, it all adds up up and the trick is to find clients prepared to pay what the service is worth and required to be a viable business. which is not easy.

hi and thanks for the reply,

when you say any changes in systems etc, so for example if a person was to change the UAV they decided to qualify using, then it would need to be done again?
ill try and find the thread your talking about, thanks,
or if any users know where the thread is, if they could post the link that would be great, thank you

 

[iceman]

thanks for the reply pal, so the operation manual, can you please be a little more clear for me, so is it a document that the would be student would actually need create themselves from scratch an then implement or... where u state its a difficult document to get ur head around,... is there a template type document they give you as a guide to work from etc, thanks you

Mick, you need to look at this http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/1995/20110906SUAApplicationOperationsManualTemplate.pdf its the CAA template that you need to follow for your OM. By the time you wright your OM you will probably be looking at a good 40 page document by the time you have completed it. For some it comes easy for others it may take months to write. I think I spend about 4 weeks (on and off) writing my OM and them I had amends to do after 1st submission, only a couple of minor changes but I could imagine others might have major re-writes before getting it right.

 

[Mick Koi]

Mick, you need to look at this http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/1995/20110906SUAApplicationOperationsManualTemplate.pdf its the CAA template that you need to follow for your OM. By the time you wright your OM you will probably be looking at a good 40 page document by the time you have completed it. For some it comes easy for others it may take months to write. I think I spend about 4 weeks (on and off) writing my OM and them I had amends to do after 1st submission, only a couple of minor changes but I could imagine others might have major re-writes before getting it right.

thanks a lot iceman for the link, i hadn't seen that pdf when i was looking online, so thank you. I've just given it a little 10 second looking at, and right now it looks like foreign text to me, but hey thats where the studying and learning a new topic comes into play, time to put the kettle on and have a read! thank you

 

[vulcan2go]

I went through both the ground school and the Ops manual/flight test about a year ago.

The ground school was no big issue, the flight test was fine (but I've been flying for a while). The main issue was the Ops manual which took quite a lot of thinking about but its not impossible. Its unlikely that anyone will share their Ops manual as so much has to go into it to make it work!

Cheers,

 

[Mick Koi]

I went through both the ground school and the Ops manual/flight test about a year ago.

The ground school was no big issue, the flight test was fine (but I've been flying for a while). The main issue was the Ops manual which took quite a lot of thinking about but its not impossible. Its unlikely that anyone will share their Ops manual as so much has to go into it to make it work!

Cheers,

thanks vulcan, I'm admittedly brand new to RC, UAV's and to be honest photography aswell, but i am keen to learn and can defo put the hours in for studying, this is why I'm trying to get as much info on the courses etc before i fork out a few quid, and yes i anticipate that others wouldn't share there manual because it is business after all, so ill have to see how i get on if i do book the course, thanks for the reply pal

 

[Bowley]

hi and thanks for the reply,

when you say any changes in systems etc, so for example if a person was to change the UAV they decided to qualify using, then it would need to be done again?
ill try and find the thread your talking about, thanks,
or if any users know where the thread is, if they could post the link that would be great, thank you

Thats right Mick you have to sit a flight test for each and every system you want to use for aerial work including clones of already certified systems unless the type has been through design and construction certification. and also if any changes to any system are made this has to be reflected in the ops manual and the ops manual submitted for review and its then up to the reviewing company as to whether a flight re-test is required. I have even been informed, rightly or wrongly, that a re-test could be required even for a flight controller firmware upgrade.
This is why you have to be sure you have the right systems for what you want to do before you undertake your Ops manual and flight test, and as this game is a steep learning curve and things advance so quickly you will probably end up stuck with what you thought you needed and budgeting your next build and re certification.

 

[Benjamin Kenobi]

...unless you're with ResourceUAS. Then you're flight tested to the aircraft and flight controller. I can buy a fleet of S800 and Wookongs but not have to resit the test. Same goes for firmware upgrades and payload modifications.

 

[Bowley]

...unless you're with ResourceUAS. Then you're flight tested to the aircraft and flight controller. I can buy a fleet of S800 and Wookongs but not have to resit the test. Same goes for firmware upgrades and payload modifications.

OK, and they will accredit a BNUC to an RPQ on the ground side of things as well I gather, so for my next flight tests maybe I should go to resourceUAS. Thanks for the info Ben.

 

[Benjamin Kenobi]

Yeah, I'm not constantly singing their praises just for fun. They treated me really well. Very accommodating bunch.