SJ8 with DJI & Catle Creation controllers!

[CineRebel]

Hi Jrlederer,

Well I am confused as well, I have been using HW platinum 40A with fantastic results. Untill I found out that they got a little too hot. After having one crash I got scared and said that I need the best possible solution. After researching for some time and also contacting Castle Creation support I went for the ICE 75 controller.

I have seen video's on youtube of the exact same configurations which fly very well, but mine doen't. It hovers well but doesn't react to my stick and even sometimes it starts drifting away! uncontrollable!

I have done everything exactly as it should be done and tried different settings with no results. now I have put back my old HW platinum esc (thank god i didnt sell them) to see if everything else is working fine? I will have a test today and tell you the results.

But still I am stuck with 800 euros of CC controllers which are suppose to be very good, I will contact them next week and see if the can solve the problem otherwise I want my money back.


I'll keep you updated.

cheers

 

[ChrisViperM]

...some good reading here:

http://www.multirotorforums.com/showthread.php?1673-DJI-with-Kontronik-Kobe

 

[jrlederer]

thanks to everyone for your replies. To those who've successfully employed CC ESC's, which method of power distribution have you successfully utilized? My 75A Ice have some pretty intimidating power cables (8 AWG) that seem like they would require a very capable power source. Any ideas? This has been the main point of hesitation on my not yet having completed my build.

Thanks again, I love this place!!

 

[snurre]

@jrlederer
I am using a "hybrid" power distribution board.
This board:http://store.jdrones.com/product_p/hexapdpcb1.htm
And I have soldered 8 AWG wire on it. The hover current in my system (at 7.5kg AUW) is ~72A with peak current at 240 A, and it seems to cope fine with that.
After some initial messing around with ESC mounted on the hub I ripped them out and installed them under each motor, and that I have not regretted.
The ESCs gets good cooling under the propellers.
Wire dimension from hub to ESC - same as ESC native power connection.
View attachment 5037
The assembly is sprayed with plastic protective insulating coating, and contained in shrink tube (sorry, no photo). As you can see I have also connected a CC capacitor bank and the WKM power feed to the PDB.
This is used in the payload test video that Boris referred to earlier in this thread (http://youtu.be/8UMKeMnvN8U?hd=1).

Using CC Phoenix ICE 50 Lite fw 4.01 On two of them I use the quick connect http://castlecreations.com/products/quick_connect.html
providing instant access to the CC data logging - very useful. On the flight controller side I only connect the orange signal wires, black and red wires pulled out and insulated. Why pull the black wires? I order to avoid "parasitic" ground current loops.
Flight controller WKM fw 5.08

Cheers/ Tomas

 

[snurre]

If any of you guys like diagrams then you may enjoy this. It is a screendump from the Castle Creations Phoenix ICE 50 Lite data log.
From the last part of the payload video.
By the way, AXI 2814/22 is a 14 pole motor - correct? (the pole count is a necessary input to the data log software to calculate correct rpm)

And yes, I know the motors are rated at max 25 amps for 20 seconds.:shame: The peak current occurs only when flying in manual mode and slamming full throttle. Which I did just for test purpose.
View attachment 5038
/ Tomas
Edit: For full image resolution, download image from here:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/36968875/CCPhoenixICE50Light_screendump.PNG

 

[redridinghood]

FYI

DJI issued an anoucment that all the FC sold before Feb. 2012 have a flaw and might fail if you are not using a "traditional' esc placement. Since you have the esc under the motors I would be wary of any issues.

 

[snurre]

Ouch :what:
Thanks for the heads up!

 

[snurre]

Castle Creation users:
(and this is probably valid for other ESCs as well)

As I have been performing some payload tests with my octa with CC esc I have been monitoring the internal temperatures of two of the esc onboard (Phoenix ICE has data logging feature), and the temps was never higher than 65 deg Celsius.
And so I asked myself, what is the recommended limit, not to exceed? Could not find it in the CC specs.
So I mailed CC support and asked. Here is the answer:

You want to try to keep the ESC temps under 210'F to keep from degrading the components... the ESC will start to shut down around 250-275' F.

For us who have difficulties with the obscure Farenheit unit:
210F = 99C
250F = 121C
275F = 135C

So I will remember that temps below 100 deg Celsius is not destructive.
And 65 degrees should not be a matter of concern.

/ Tomas

 

[BorisS]

FYI

DJI issued an anoucment that all the FC sold before Feb. 2012 have a flaw and might fail if you are not using a "traditional' esc placement. Since you have the esc under the motors I would be wary of any issues.

I wonder if this fault goes hand in hand with the finding of Andreas Baier back than when he stated that the F1 and F2 ports give out a slightly different pulse/jitters as the other ports. Probably doesnt play a role with short ESCs cables and the common ESC FW with the signals are filtered.

Boris

 

[snurre]

Maybe that´s how it is Boris.
But as I understand it, the now MR compatible firmware from Castle Creations (currently 4.01) more or less removed that filter from the pwm input.
So I am still concerned, albeit using CC esc.

/ Tomas

 

[redridinghood]

I wonder if this fault goes hand in hand with the finding of Andreas Baier back than when he stated that the F1 and F2 ports give out a slightly different pulse/jitters as the other ports. Probably doesnt play a role with short ESCs cables and the common ESC FW with the signals are filtered.

Boris

It's very reasonable to think that. I hope Andreas didnt have to "dump down" the Herkules firmware too much for the defective Wookong.
DJI lately is doing a great job of making me want to sell all my DJI toys and move on to a more serious company.

 

[Knilch]

At least they smell the competition in form of ZeroUAV and try to sort out some things they either promised a long time ago (PPM Sum) or botched in the beginning (replacement of defective WKM). They would've never done that without the pressure.

My Wookong probably will be replaced by an Autoquad later this year as that is the most promising system in my eye atm.

 

[redridinghood]

Yes AQ seems like the next gen FC. I have one in the mail and will test next week. If all goes well I'll retire all my DJI gear.

 

[Kari]

Yes AQ seems like the next gen FC. I have one in the mail and will test next week. If all goes well I'll retire all my DJI gear.

(Offtopic) Red, have you retired YS too? Why it's not in your sky jib? I like it a lot in my Cinestar and wkm is in a box waiting for something to happen to get me interested it again.

Back to topic, i've been using CC25 phoenix with wkm without a single issue and they are really the best esc:s i've ever tried with wookong. Very close to flashed though. I just hope someone finds a way to use CC:s also with YS. Adjusting throttle range needing YS between them is just too confusing at the moment.

 

[redridinghood]

Kari I could not get the YS-X6 to play nice with the Castle throttle calibration. That's the reason I mounted the WKm back on my Skyjib.
As soon as I test the AQ and I am happy with it Ill downgrade the Wkm to it's rightful place, the F550 and mount the AutoQuad on the SJ8.

I kind like the YS-X6 on my CX4. The smaller frame lets me play with the Android features without the fear that I will decapitate someone.

 

[jrlederer]

Interesting, now I'm extra happy I didn't impulsively buy YS-X6 system. Hope everyone is having a good week so far!
--Jonathan

 

[Kari]

Interesting, now I'm extra happy I didn't impulsively buy YS-X6 system. Hope everyone is having a good week so far!
--Jonathan

Why is that? Ys still outperforms wkm clearly imo. There is still a lot of options for escs even if we cannot use cc at the moment.

 

[jrlederer]

Thanks for clearing that misunderstanding up as far as system's performance is when comparing the two. The reason that I am glad i difmt purchase it is very particular to my circumstances. As you may or may not have read in many months' posts that I've made here, I have spent loads of money, much of which has turned out to regretted due to many reasons, but primarily either a result of poor research or falsely advertised compatibility, etc. To be completely honest, I would really like to try out the ZeroUAV product if for nothing more than just th geek factor o controlling via Android platform phones & tablets, but seeing as to how much dough I've spent(fortunately not all mine, personally, but rather part of a budget allotted for this area of cinematography), I would be dropping twice the price of th unit to outfit it with comatinle ESCs as well as investing time that needs to be put into the primary project on something that really, in my opinion, falls into the category of personal hobby as opposed to work related.

I am glad to know that some experienced users are readily defending the flight characteristics provided by the competition (zeroUAV) as it gives me something to put on my Christmas list, as tats about the time of year when I'll have th spare time to fiddle with that cool gear!!

Thanks and have a nice day!

 

[Kari]

Thanks for clearing that misunderstanding up as far as system's performance is when comparing the two. The reason that I am glad i difmt purchase it is very particular to my circumstances. As you may or may not have read in many months' posts that I've made here, I have spent loads of money, much of which has turned out to regretted due to many reasons, but primarily either a result of poor research or falsely advertised compatibility, etc. To be completely honest, I would really like to try out the ZeroUAV product if for nothing more than just th geek factor o controlling via Android platform phones & tablets, but seeing as to how much dough I've spent(fortunately not all mine, personally, but rather part of a budget allotted for this area of cinematography), I would be dropping twice the price of th unit to outfit it with comatinle ESCs as well as investing time that needs to be put into the primary project on something that really, in my opinion, falls into the category of personal hobby as opposed to work related.

I am glad to know that some experienced users are readily defending the flight characteristics provided by the competition (zeroUAV) as it gives me something to put on my Christmas list, as tats about the time of year when I'll have th spare time to fiddle with that cool gear!!

Thanks and have a nice day!

Sorry i haven't read your earlier posts but i'm amazed your Chrismas toy, cool factor geek toy comments about YS. I have been lately using Wookong and YS both, and i base my comments to my real life experience rather than reading other users comments. I'm looking for a system for professional aerial video platform and for that use i find YS working much better at the moment than wkm if using Cinestar or similar HL frame. What comes to flying characteristics YS is just smoother in any level. In calm YS is about as good as wkm for me, but in windy conditions it over performs wookong clearly, theres no doubt. But i still feel i haven't had time to tune it there yet what it really is capable of. With YS i can use any possible props i've tried and it still flies well, where as wookong was only flyable with 11X5 graupners for me and tuning has no really lot options as there are no real PID adjustments.

What comes to gps performance with wookong finding 6 satellites here takes some minutes, and after take off it often flashes one red for losing some in the air. With YS i can see from ground station that it finds (and keeps) 9-11 satellites in more like few seconds and gps hold is rock solid where wkm often sometimes drifts and toilet bowls without no reason. Ground station software is something very useful rather than toy to play around. Sure you can set waypoints also but i haven't even tried them or any other "cool" features yet. I have used ground station only for setting parameters and preflight checking all values are fine which increases safety, if something is wrong in wookong hw it's basically impossible to evaluate before takeoff.

I can't say which is better for you, go for what you feel best but i think it's not fair to judge YS to hobby project. YS has been out just a weeks now available for other than chinese customers and i doubt guys here have even tried to set it up yet much compared time they have spend testing wkm with different props etc. I can only say YS has done outstanding job so far, cannot wait their next coming updates to solve some small incompletenesses. I have not tried last (5.10) update for wookong yet but i doubt it will make that big difference flying characterics to achieve better performance or even close to YS.

 

[jrlederer]

Thanks, Kari, for the good info. After reading your post, I am planning to actually go and buy a YS. Where Wouk you recommend getting one from as I am in CA? I found what you've posted particularly useful as part of what led me to believe that the YS was kind of a toy is due to my inexperience with the WKM unit I have (as it is still in its box, unopened). The performance comparison you've given in windy conditions is very important to me. Up until now, I have been exclusively flying on MK electronics for all of my machines, and so have not had any firsthand experience, from what I keep reading, with poor wind performance associated with DJI. After having flown their Ace One unit on my SRH for quite some time now, I only assumed that their Multirotor controller would shine in much the same way tha their flagship single rotor unit does. apparently I am mistaken. So, a a result, you have changed my view of the YS and as soon as I am able, I plan to purchase one. What ESC's are recommended for best performance in heavy lift category??