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Macsgrafs

Active Member
It says $32000 each!!!! What a rip off!!!!! but its one way to stop the competition from thinkign about buying one ;)
 



jes1111

Active Member
Estimate Number: 17274
Submitted: Wednesday, November 25th, 2009 at 10:57 am CST
Product:
Type: Draganflyer X6 Helicopter
Model: DF-X6-STILL-PKG
Configuration & Price: Photography-and-HD-Video: $26,380.00 USD
Download Photography-and-HD-Video PDF Spec Sheet Brochure
The Photography-and-HD-Video Configuration Includes:
One Draganflyer X6 Helicopter
One Handheld Controller, with video receiver
On-board stabilization software
Charging system with dual chargers, cables & case
Two helicopter batteries
Tool Case with helicopter maintenance tools
Transport Case
Log Book
1 Day of Training at Draganfly Innovations for up to 2 people (limitations & conditions apply)
See Terms & Conditions of Sale
User's Manual
Plus:
GPS Position Hold
Base Station complete with Radio & PC software, 2.4 Ghz Digital Control & Communications Link, Embedded Dragan Eye™ Pro 5.8GHz Quad Diversity Wireless Video Receiver, Video Glasses.
Digital Still Camera including Anti-vibration mount and 5.8Ghz Video Transmitter. Features 10.1 Mega Pixel Resolution & 720p motion video, records to SDHC memory card. View finder video is transmitted wirelessly for real-time viewing.
Additional Accessories:
Additional Parts:
Total: $26,380.00 USD

From end 2009 - bet they've gone up, plus there must be lots of options.

Frankly I think their prices are silly. Sure, there's loads of R&D cost, support, etc., but it still doesn't seem to justify it, to my mind. OpenPilot will pee all over their capabilities/features list. On the airframe my estimate for the mechanical parts costs (arms/fuselage/etc.) is about $50 (with $10-20K upfront for tooling). I'm not saying they should sell it at Walmart prices, but it's very obvious that the price is "padded" to suit the markets into which they sell.

And, of course, they are not the only ones - http://www.microdrones.com, http://www.aeryon.com/, http://airrobot.com/, http://www.novadem.com/, etc. - they're all in that price range (with or without base station).
 

Droider

Drone Enthusiast
Roll on OP then.. Now do I go down that route for my new HL platform..mmm will it do Y6... guess thats a really dumb question.

I aint looked to close yet coz my head is so ramjammed at the moment. BUT the MAC interface is making me wonder...

I guess I should go and check it out..

Dave
 

Macsgrafs

Active Member
Thats the problem Jes, at the end of the day we ALL know what we can make one of these for & what we can make it do, but most of the public are unaware, so these expensive companies can sell them for extortionate prices to the unsuspecting public!!!
 

Droider

Drone Enthusiast
Yep its called the trouser down syndrome and as posted in another thread most of have had that while trying to get into MR's. BUT this is the place to hopfully reduce the burnt fingers of our community..

Thanks to all you guys out there who are helping educate us.

Dave
 

Stacky

Member
Is it really that awful a price? Sure its up there but go through the list of equipment, price it all up, including carry cases, training day etc etc. Then add in their expenses as a business and the fact they need to make a profit and have staff to pay.
Ive been in business for a long time now and so often on these forums hobbyists will rightly point out they can make something for a fraction of the price of a manufacturer and call it a rip off. I work as an advertising photographer and I am charging 2K for a full days shoot. An amateur photographer on some jobs could easily come along and do the same job for a tiny fraction of my cost. But they wont have my 21 years of experience to handle a situation where the job has become extremely problematic and guarantee a result when there is a set full of make up artists, models, prop people, art directors and client product managers all clocking up time on the job. I also have all my costs associated with my business to factor in, (accounting, utilities, equipment, computers and software, repairs, car, legal, self promotion the desire to earn a reasonable income and also staff. When people start to add up all those costs and then work out how much they think is a fair income the resulting fee needed to be charged will surprise most.
If you approach looking at the price of the draganflyer from the point of view of a hobbyist you will of course be stunned at the price. If you approach it from the point of being in business, needing to earn an income and needing to employ staff and lease premises as well as make sure the business is a going concern and then also look at who the target market is the price isnt nearly as horrific. Its definitely up there but I dont see it as a huge rip off considering everything included.
 

Kilby

Active Member
It seems to me that they are specializing in selling this platform to large industry & government agencies. From a sales perspective, they would be shooting themselves in the foot if they didn't price them somewhere in this level. Government usually equates price to quality and seem to favor things like this. I doubt they would have half the clients they do know if they were priced differently.

That being said, I'm sure they would also pick up new clients, such as the users of this forum, if they were priced a little closer to the MikroKopter or Droidworkz of the world. I used to have a small technology start up in the early 00's and I saw this day in and day out. Competitors of ours that had virtually the same product would set their prices several times what we had and it really seemed to help them land some of the big government/industry clients.
 

jes1111

Active Member
Yes, I believe the marketing chaps call it "perceived value". Not saying it's a rip-off, but I believe the technology is becoming so widespread now (and with projects like OpenPilot bringing prices down), they will not be able to support those prices for much longer. I'm also a photographer - I understand and agree with what you say about your fees - but the important analogy is in the equipment itself: I have many clients ask me "how many mexapixels is that?" and when I tell them, they say "ooh! I've got a [insert brand] in my pocket that's nearly the same!" Of course, they don't understand that not all pixels are born equal or treated equally after birth.

In the MR world, though, things really are more equal: as long as you can lift your camera/sensor/whatever into the sky you can get the job done, whether your craft is home-built for $500 or you bought it from Microdrones for $50,000. Because, indeed, these manufacturers cannot claim that their platform does the job any better in terms of stability, flight times, etc. In fact, they are often rather outdated technology with shockingly "ordinary" performance by today's standards.

Of course, open source products are a hard sell into corporations. Remember, though, that OpenPilot is exactly that: open source! So a company (including Draganfly!) could take the designs, manufacture the hardware themselves and sell a high-spec platform at a reasonable/appropriate price without having to claw back $20million in R&D costs. Now that would put the cat amongst the pigeons!
 

Droider

Drone Enthusiast
All.. I totally understand R&D and related costs of set up.. I dread to think what my ADX3 has REALLY COST, not only in materials but time, in my profession I aint cheap infact I would put myself in the same bracket if not way above all the named below. BUT times are a changing. There are so many double glazing salesmen in green suits out there that its hard to justify our cost but experience and prooved science will always come though. I just watched a programme about a rouge photographer. Yep the digital era has made more professionals than you can shake a stick at but as the programme enforced, any one can point a camera but without the experience when the shots are shown only the true professional shines through.

If I was a professional and full time photographer wanting to get into AP then I guess $20k is not a massive investment. I pay a small fortune for bespoke software and dont blink at the cost because I know what I will do with it will pay for it in know time.

BUT as we are all here trying to understand and unravel the science of it all $20k is a frightening amount.

Thanks to every one for jumping in to unravel the birds nest.

Dave
 
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Pip

Member
I suspect they provide FULL support when and whereever it's needed - that tends to come at a price. Companies using these drones don't want the hassle of open source projects etc, they want something they know works, is hassle free and will get immediate support if and when required.
 
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jes1111

Active Member
Exactly, which is why I anticipate companies setting up to offer "OpenPilot with support", just like has happened with many Open Source software projects.
 

Macsgrafs

Active Member
There's making a living & taking the piss! I'm also a pro photographer, but I cant charge much around where I live, Devon is in the sticks & most of my work is weddings...but ever man & his dog has a 12m pixel camera & its brought the prices right down. Yes he gives them cut off head shots, ho his monitor isnt profiled & he hasnt got anything bigger than an A4 printer...thats what I'm up against, so I darent try & charge to much or trust me I would be a hugry guy & so would my family!
What gets me its only a quad at that, but I suppose some stupid rich company would pay $32,000 for it, crash it after a few weeks & then they make more money from the spares & repairs. Then along comes one of us, yes Mr. I can do that for.....xxx$'s cheaper! Penny drops, big firm realises they've been had & decides to rip off thier customers, who might just happen to be us or a member of our family. I would expect thier quad to make my breakfast, get me dressed & shave me, then take the kids to school for that money :) :)

Ross
 

RTRyder

Merlin of Multirotors
What you can charge and get away with really depends on your target market and the expectations you set with your customers. The average hobbyist would like to think they get support from the vendors they buy from but how many times are you able to send an email or make a phone call and get a manufacturers representative to deal with the issue within say a 4 hour maximum time period every time you have a problem when you're spending a few hundred $ to a thousand or so at most? That's the level of support (or better) that you get when you spend $32 large and its expected that it's going to happen every time you need help, no excuses or delays accepted.

The market for drones at that price level is limited to say the least and purchases are not made spur of the moment, the sales cycle can be months long as the customer does comparisons to the competition and makes very sure of exactly what they're getting for taxpayers (usually) $ spent. The sales cycle at our level is anywhere from minutes to a couple of days, and in some cases a few weeks as we gather funds from any source we can to scrape the necessary $ together and the marketing is typically on an internet forum, no glossy brochures and sales reps backed by a couple R & D techs calling to ask if we'd like to setup a demo of the equipment.

What we as hobbyists overlook is that many of the so called companies we deal with are run out of spare bedrooms, basements, and crowded garages and the staff is usually one or two people so the profit margins are thin and the time available for supporting the customer base is even thinner, I'm feeling the pain of that a bit right now with some issues I'm trying to work through on some fairly expensive (to me anyway) equipment I own. While I do expect that when a promise is made it gets followed through on, I can't complain too much about the level of service knowing full well who and what the company I'm dealing with is compared to what I would expect if I had laid out tens of thousands of $.

So realistically at the hobby end of the spectrum we have Mk and our friend Holger who does a decent job of keeping things updated and the parts available but don't expect to pickup the phone and have a friendly German voice walk you through a problem, ain't going to happen even if we think the $2500 or more we recently spent to buy one of his kits is high end stuff.

If you're running a for profit business that is or will depend on the quad(s) you're about to buy for revenue to keep the doors open then you're more likely going to shell out $10K plus to have a company that advertises RTF turnkey systems with full support at the low end to whatever the asking price is for the really high end systems because at the end of the day what you're really buying for that price is a contract with the manufacturer to keep the equipment running day after day and that friendly voice at the other end of the phone line when you have a problem, and that doesn't come cheap.

Ken
 

Droider

Drone Enthusiast
Strange where a link can take a thread.

There is some really thoughtful stuff in here but also the true costs are appearing of what it cost hobbyists to get a quality mR CP in the air..

Take note you guys just getting in to this coz I had NO idea I would have spent my holiday money, smashed
every piggy bank i could find and dug out that old savings account. All to feed my new addiction and with out any payback avenue.. What I have got though has stimulated my grey cells more than anything i can remember. I have progressed a lot this last 7 months and the future is getting brighter. I guess the CC board may make it a tad easier on the pocket but dont be fooled in to thinking you will through a MR up in the air for a couple of hundered dollars.. you wont

Dave
 


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