What would you do ?

Geronimo

Geronimo

Member
...if you were in my place?

Hi, new to the forums.
I've read this post: http://multirotorforums.com/threads/before-you-buy-please-read-this.1531/ and I'm aware of the issues/problems with this hobby (and business for some). I'd like to learn about these machines, how to build them, program them, set them up, etc. but unfortunately, I never had an opportunity to do so yet.

And...I'm a complete, total newbie. Never had a flyable RC toy in my life. I did play a few times with friend's RC helicopter, the one that you get for free in cocoa packages :p (joking, but you know what I mean)

I love photography though and never cared about "drones" until they became rapidly more and more famous in the last year or two, when they caught my eye.

My primary goal is to have a good multirotor with good gimbal that can take Panasonic GH4 aboard safely.

The reason is, I'd like to start shooting videos with it and, hopefully, make some money.
The good thing is that I'd have some advantage, since there's still no professional photographers with serious multirotors and cameras where I live (maybe 2-3 with drones such as Phantom 2)

Also, I'd be in cooperation with a friend, so I guess I'd need 2 controllers, pilot's and camera/gimbal's.

If you had money, what would you do ?
Build it from scratch? It would cost less and give me experience? But...I don't even know where to start, what to buy, let alone how to assemble it + who knows if it would be reliable as some known brands are.

Order a good package, such as this: http://www.dslrpros.com/brands/dslrpros/drone-kits/dslrpros-s1000-kit.html that comes with GH4 and everything else you may need?

Something else?

Honestly, I'm a bit afraid because it's lots of money and I can only hope to be able to return investment within some reasonable time, but that's why I need your opinion, based on your experience, what would you do if you were in my shoes ?
Please don't make fun of me, honest answers would be appreciated :)

Thanks
 

Bartman

Bartman

Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
Hello "Geronimo"

It's a big step just to show up at a site and post what you did so we'll hold off on making fun of you until we get to know you better! :)

Anyway, with no experience you need to find a way to get some experience before sending up an expensive helicopter with an expensive camera. I'd recommend reading through this and using it to build yourself a helicopter that will teach you a lot in a short amount of time and for a reasonable amount of money. Once that's don'e you'll be in a better position to make decisions for yourself about what you ought to do next.

http://multirotorforums.com/threads/group-build-dji-naza-f450-quadcopter.13431/

you can even build this helicopter to carry a brushless GoPro Gimbal which will provide you with beautiful footage while you are learning to fly and frame your aerial shots.

Bart
 

Geronimo

Geronimo

Member
Thanks Bart, just took a look at your thread and it all looks like an unintelligible mess to me (for now), but I'll give it a try to understand :)

EDIT: Really great video guides !
 
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Gary Seven

Gary Seven

Rocketman
@Geronimo, welcome to the site. You probably don't know it but the first person to respond to your post is the actual creator of this forum, so I'd say that's quite the honor in itself. :)

Your post is huge on several fronts: You like and/or are good at photography, and maybe would like to get into AP. Yet, you know nothing of RC aircraft or flying, or model building, or yada yada yada. Then you post a link to possible "what if I were to buy this" for an UAV that cost nearly $10,000....yet you've NEVER flown even a mini quad toy!! OMG!

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to criticize or make fun of you are anything of the sort. I'm just a little shocked by the post. I think if you really want to do something like this you have to ask yourself some questions:

1. "Do I feel lucky?" The Clint Eastwood ripoff aside, you have to ask yourself what are my chances of attempting to fly a $10,000 UAV without crashing it? I'd say pretty low, even if you can put the thing in "automatic" for nearly effortless flying. Where the rubber meets the road is when (not if) you have some problem with the FC (flight controller), GPS, motor, ESC, EMI, etc. that causes the vehicle to NOT do what you want and now experience and piloting skills must take over. But if you have no experience, what are you going to do (except watch your super expensive machine crash into the ground destroying your investment, not to mention the potential to do harm to anyone in its path)? So that option sir, needs serious consideration.

2. "Am I interested in building my own MR and learning about RC flying from the ground up?" If the answer is YES, then you must be prepared to spend weeks and months perusing dedicated sites like this one, watching endless YouTube "How To" videos, buying parts, learning to solder, learning at least some basic electronics, etc. etc. In effect, you will become an RC hobbyist that over time will develop good piloting skills that can eventually branch off into AP. If the answer to that question is NO, then you're more a candidate to purchase RTF (Ready To Fly) MR's and just learn how to fly. No matter how you slice it however, you MUST learn how to fly not only to protect your investment buy even more importantly, protect others that may be nearby when something goes wrong. PLEASE note that I use when and not if....you will have a crash no matter what.

3. "Am I willing to split the workload between flying and photography?" You mention in your post you may work with someone else. Is that person experienced with RC aircraft and/or MR's? If so, would you consider handing off all pilot responsibilities to him/her while you do the photography? Honestly, if you were to buy the machine you linked to in your post, that would be the only solution for now considering you have no piloting experience whatsoever.

Anyway, just my $0.02 worth. Hope you get it figured out and I wish you the best of luck. RC flying is really fun, frustrating, expensive, and satisfying all at the same time. Take care!
 
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Geronimo

Geronimo

Member
Heh, well then I was really lucky to get answer from the man himself. I honestly didn't know that :)

Yes, I know it's hard not to mock situation like this. Even I was thinking whether posting this was a smart move or not, it is yet to be seen :)

1. You are completely right, it's not child's play to just buy a 10k machine, then risk learning on it, but I'm worried I'll "miss the train" if I don't buy serious equipment as soon as possible, because the interest in this kind of filming/photography is rapidly increasing here, and as I said, there's no one yet with serious equipment who could provide such a level of quality footage.
That will change soon, because people are not stupid, and those who already have Phantoms (and similar) will soon switch them for something more serious and then I lose the advantage which I have, for now.

2. I am interested in building my own system, I even have all the necessary tools for building it.
I've made this list of parts to purchase, do you think this is OK, or something needs to be changed ?

From this particular shop, it all comes around $540. Is it a reasonable cost, or could I spend less somewhere/somehow else?
Add shipping to that, wires, unanticipated costs and realistically I am looking at ~$600-$650. Is that OK ?

3. My friend and I, we're both inexperienced with this kind of RC flying machines. He's also good at taking photos, so I'd leave camera station to him, and I'd take a risk of flying the machine, since I'd be investing in it in the first place.

Thanks for the opinions, I'm now more prone to buying parts and assembly my first "cheapo" drone and risking the opportunity to miss the train with HQ aerial filming in this region, but I think it's the wiser choice than to risk buying expensive equipment and destroying it due to inexperience.

Btw. which FPV station do you recommend? It looks much easier to fly a drone (especially once it leaves your range of sight) with it.

Thanks!
 

dazzab

dazzab

Member
Enjoy your journey. You have to start somewhere. But don't fool yourself, to do this commercially is a very expensive and long process. There are legal issues to consider as well. Once you've done a business plan and a cashflow analysis you may very well change your mind about doing this commercially.
 

Gary Seven

Gary Seven

Rocketman
@Geronimo I'm not qualified to give you advice on what to buy or build WRT AP. I'm just an aviator....I like to fly (even flew small, single engine planes for real back in the 80's). The system you have picked out is very similar to the one I built myself last summer and still fly several times a week. I love my F450. Although I don't do AP (or even FPV for that matter, but that is going to change) I would hazard a guess that the F450 wouldn't be the best platform due to it's power/AUW limitations. Don't get me wrong, it's a great intro into DIY RC multirotors and great to train on. AFAIKT by reading hundreds of threads on this site and others, it would seem a hex is the minimum you would want (at least for starters) for AP.

I will humbly defer to the experts and experienced here on multirotorforums.com. User names that come to mind are @Bartman, @oldman, @kloner, @Motopreserve, @fltundra, @SJBrit, @gtranquilla, and I don't know how many others. There's simply too many cracks to mention! Best of luck.
 

F

Flying High

Member
Hi Geronimo
A good post, I am sure there are many more future pilots out there that have not yet plucked up courage to ask this question.
I got into multirotors about 8 months ago after flying RC gliders for a while, initially I thought buy and build a big quad/octo and go fly it.......
Eventually my wife talked some sense into me and said if you want to do this walk don't run and buy something sensible to learn with.
Eventually after doing a bit of googling I bought a P2 Phantom with a H3-3D gimbal and gopro black+, to be honest something like this is brilliant to learn to fly with and to be honest takes brilliant photos and video for the money.
Since then I have undertaken my controllers certificate to fly multirotors up to 7kg with a very good company in Perth WA that build high end commercial UAV's, the knowledge and skills I learnt were invaluable and I am now ready to take the next step into flying commercially.
I am not sure where you are but check out your local regulations regarding flying commercially as as soon as you do you move into a very different scenario regarding flight safety and preparation.
To this end you will still have time on your side especially if the Phantom flyers local to you are not licensed to fly commercially, getting this will be what gives you the edge you need, in Aus you need both an Operators Certificate and a Controllers Certificate, both are not cheap and quite a lot of work to obtain but once you have them it will open up your opportunities.
Also by starting with the P2 I have learnt a huge amount about multirotors and control systems generally.
I wish you good luck in your venture and for raising this question here.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 


TahoeTim

TahoeTim

Member
IMHO, there are two types of drone pilots. One type fly drones for fun. The other type see drones as a TOOL for photography.

Just because I can take photos with my iphone, it doesn't make me an artist. I have great respect for the pro artists that know how to frame a shot, get color, light, etc correct. I can post video shot from my drone but then I would be lost when members start talking about jello. :D

In a nutshell, in this sport you would need to master the pilot role and the artist role. Get a cheap quad to learn the pilot side. You will become a pilot and a mechanic before you use the rotor as a tool for your profession.
 

Geronimo

Geronimo

Member
Gary Seven said:
@Geronimo I'm not qualified to give you advice on what to buy or build WRT AP. I'm just an aviator....I like to fly (even flew small, single engine planes for real back in the 80's). The system you have picked out is very similar to the one I built myself last summer and still fly several times a week. I love my F450. Although I don't do AP (or even FPV for that matter, but that is going to change) I would hazard a guess that the F450 wouldn't be the best platform due to it's power/AUW limitations. Don't get me wrong, it's a great intro into DIY RC multirotors and great to train on. AFAIKT by reading hundreds of threads on this site and others, it would seem a hex is the minimum you would want (at least for starters) for AP.

I will humbly defer to the experts and experienced here on multirotorforums.com. User names that come to mind are @Bartman, @oldman, @kloner, @Motopreserve, @fltundra, @SJBrit, @gtranquilla, and I don't know how many others. There's simply too many cracks to mention! Best of luck.
Click to expand...

Thanks Gary and don't worry, I don't expect everyone to be expert on this :p
Upgrade to Hexa kit is $90, it's the flamewheel F550 kit with lots of stuff included.
I might go from there then, I consider it $90 well spent.

Flying High said:
Hi Geronimo
A good post, I am sure there are many more future pilots out there that have not yet plucked up courage to ask this question.
I got into multirotors about 8 months ago after flying RC gliders for a while, initially I thought buy and build a big quad/octo and go fly it.......
Eventually my wife talked some sense into me and said if you want to do this walk don't run and buy something sensible to learn with.
Eventually after doing a bit of googling I bought a P2 Phantom with a H3-3D gimbal and gopro black+, to be honest something like this is brilliant to learn to fly with and to be honest takes brilliant photos and video for the money.
Since then I have undertaken my controllers certificate to fly multirotors up to 7kg with a very good company in Perth WA that build high end commercial UAV's, the knowledge and skills I learnt were invaluable and I am now ready to take the next step into flying commercially.
I am not sure where you are but check out your local regulations regarding flying commercially as as soon as you do you move into a very different scenario regarding flight safety and preparation.
To this end you will still have time on your side especially if the Phantom flyers local to you are not licensed to fly commercially, getting this will be what gives you the edge you need, in Aus you need both an Operators Certificate and a Controllers Certificate, both are not cheap and quite a lot of work to obtain but once you have them it will open up your opportunities.
Also by starting with the P2 I have learnt a huge amount about multirotors and control systems generally.
I wish you good luck in your venture and for raising this question here.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your honest post. I'd like to build my first hexacopter. I like working with tech stuff and it will give me some experience before I choose to go further.
Considering the regulations here, I really don't know - good question. I've sent an email to air traffic regulation control office, I'm interested what will they say. I might need some permits, if so, I'd gladly work on getting them.
I'm not sure if local drone operators have them, I don't know those guys personally.

TahoeTim said:
IMHO, there are two types of drone pilots. One type fly drones for fun. The other type see drones as a TOOL for photography.

Just because I can take photos with my iphone, it doesn't make me an artist. I have great respect for the pro artists that know how to frame a shot, get color, light, etc correct. I can post video shot from my drone but then I would be lost when members start talking about jello. :D

In a nutshell, in this sport you would need to master the pilot role and the artist role. Get a cheap quad to learn the pilot side. You will become a pilot and a mechanic before you use the rotor as a tool for your profession.
Click to expand...

At first I'd fly for fun (at least until I learn them and get confidence for AP) :)
I'm no photography pro either, but I understand basics of photography, framing, etc. and I like working on them once they're transferred to computer. I also never had professional gear, such as DSLR, but I've played with some and they're awesome.
It's a completely new world that you can spend fortune on, let alone the drones :D
I think I'll start with building my first drone, then spend some time flying it.
 



S

smootheye

Member
I'm a couple weeks late but I enjoyed this thread. Good for you for you, @Geronimo , for not being afraid to ask. You'll never learn otherwise. It is intimidating when you're dealing with seasoned RC Pros (definitely not me!) with 5, 10, 20, 30 years experience having to deal with the fast & furious rush of newbies (such as myself) jumping into the forum and asking ground-level questions. There are guys (& girls?) that get upset if you ask a question without scouring the archives of the forum for the answer before considering if that same exact question has ever been asked before. That can take a lifetime. I have found that here @ MultirotorForums there are mostly genuine, patient, down-to-earth people that care about the hobby/lifestyle, where it's headed, and teaching new generations the right way to do things despite the people that think some are here to get quick answers from those that have spent "decades doing the hard work". I say that because that because that is the tone I got from another forum I was a part of. Not everyone learns the same way but we are all capable of learning whether it be from reading, hands-on, asking questions, or watching videos. I know I'm getting a bit off subject but my point is that if we all care about this potentially dangerous hobby that we are taking part in, then we need to take it upon ourselves to pride ourselves on teaching others that there are NO stupid questions and not to be afraid to ask anything for the ultimate safety of people and protection of the hobby. Although it can be as annoying as me preaching right now. ;)

In my four years or so I've learned that I will always be learning as far as anything related to this (not so much a "hobby" anymore) goes... safety, safety, piloting skills (fly, fly, fly and when you're done, fly again), learn every single part of your aircraft and your transmitter (Tx/remote control), batteries (LiPo's/Lithium Polymer) how to take care of them , its function... I'm talking EVERYTHING. I am talking about the concept of flight. I know that I am no pro but what I do know is that Co's such as DJI are making these fantastic machines easier & easier to fly for the inexperienced pilot and second the one thing that makes them a breeze to fly fails mid-air, you will have no clue what to do except freeze and watch your expensive 5lb brick fall (if within sight) from the sky. That is something I do not want to be a part of while up-selling my wedding photo shoot (not really a photographer myself) onto the head of the poor little flower girl or worse... the shrimp cocktail ice sculpture! I tried to make that as graphic as possible because that can EASILY happen in a high-pressure situation involving people. Even if you're shooting real estate you don't want your sh*t falling on to Snoop Dog's prized shaggin' wagon sitting next to his McLaren.

I literally took baby steps with the exact same vision you have. I started with a tiny quad the size of my palm that I attempted to learn how to fly in my apartment. It snowed many times from hitting the popcorn ceiling! I destroyed that little guy, learned how to solder, plastic repair, etc, etc... Then I went big time and spen $50 on a Syma X5c Quadcopter. To my surprise this larger quad was so much easier and stable to control than that little sh*t with four spinning razor blades I'd been whipping around my apt. Long story longer... I am happy that I learned how to FLY for real... with no GPS-assistance! I like that I can go outside on a windy day and not only have full control of my multi-rotor but use it to my advantage.

As far as investment goes, just as any fun hobby goes, you have the initial 'big' investment then you have the initial 'big' investment.

Good luck!
 

eskil23

eskil23

Wikipedia Photographer
Geronimo. I'm in a similar situation. I have no previous experience in RC-flying (well, I had a glider when I was a teenager, but I never managed to get it in the air). However, I love photography and I'm also a dedicated wikipedian. In September this year I was invited to a photo-flight with a helicopter charterd by Wikimedia Sweden. It was great fun and it was an eye-opener to the possibilities of aerial photography, but it also made me aware of the limitations of photography from full-sized rotorcraft. To overcome these limitations I decided to build a drone.

As a former Air Force soldier (that was twenty years ago) I know that flying it is all about weight, so sending a full sized DSLR aloft was out of the question. I noticed that most people seems to use GoPro or similar cameras. They are very small and light, but I don't like distortion of that little fisheye and the tiny sensor did not impress me either. A small compact would be a good compromise and since I already had a Nikon J3 I decided to go with that one. (A drone is expensive enough even without needing to by a new camera).

The J3 weights 321 g with a 10 mm f/2,8 lens. The gimbal will weight something similar. FPV-link, navigation lights, BEC, etc all sum upp quite quickly. The combination of lifting power and stability of a hexa made me decide for the DJI F550.

So, now I'm hunting parts. The december budget is dedicated for christmas gifts, but next year I'll start spending money. The goal is to start flight training (without camera and gimbal) in March or April and to start with AP in May.
 

Geronimo

Geronimo

Member
@smootheye
Thanks for the kind words and graphic representation of what could happen when sh*t breaks loose :D
I do care about others (and my own investment), so for the beginning I'll be flying over grass and meadows.
Had some unexpected expenses, so once I recover I'll start ordering the parts and putting it together!

@eskil23
Nice, what gimbal do you use with that camera and is it 2-axis or 3-axis ?
I have a camera similar to GoPro - Drift Ghost S. It's good for action stuff, but in all honesty, all these "action" cams are crap for anything serious.
 

eskil23

eskil23

Wikipedia Photographer
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