What multi for professional work?

R

rilot

Member
After flying multis for a while, I'm looking to go semi-pro in the UK. I've done the research and have a business plan and some potential customers lined up and waiting. I'm already semi-pro as a traditional photographer so am well aware of the pitfalls of this. Nothing ventured, nothing gained though.
I'll be doing the BNUC-S as soon as I can and getting the CAA permission so all will be legal and above board.

I currently fly an F550 but this isn't really adequate for what I want to do. My business will be mostly stills photography with a little video if needed or requested by my clients.

There's little point in me submitting the operations manual for my F550 if I end up flying a different multi and have to submit a new one. So, I'm trying to get everything lined up ahead of schedule.

I want to lift a Sony NEX7 or Panasonic GH3 so I'm looking at a medium sized hex to give me the best balance of flight time and lifting performance. However, I can't decide on what platform I want to fly and invest in.

I've been looking at the DJI S800 EVO but am put off a little by some reports of issues with reliability and spares availability. It also doesn't seem that great value for money.
The other options I'm looking at are the Tarot T960 or the Carboncore H6 950. Both of these look to be good options and both can fold for portability. My concern with the Tarot though is there being no direct dealer for them in the UK and having to rely on overseas agents in China for spares availability.
I'm hoping to use the new SuperX from Xaircraft as my FC as I lost confidence in DJI's FCs a while ago.

So, what would you recommend as a platform for me, taking in to account my requirements? I don't have a fixed budget as I'm still crunching the numbers.
 





CrashMaster

CrashMaster

Member
You can pay anything you like but a lot depends what you expect from your rig and really want to do with it. Once bought and certified that is what you are stuck with until you spend more and get another certification on a new rig.

You will have to weigh up the costs and potential of each option but you need to try not filling the pockets of greedy manufacturers and marketing sales people who claim to make military or emergency services standard equipment. They will charge £50,000.00 for something only slightly more capable, if at all, than a £3,000 rig just because they can.
You then have to work out the lame ducks too. The F550 I originally thought would be ideal but once loaded with gear and a camera it is flying at the very edge of it's ability with only 8 to 9 minutes flight time. You can also go for the established boys like S800, Multicopter XL hexi or Octi, Steadydrone HX6 or EI8HT, Droidworks XM6, Droidworx Skyjib, etc... etc... However, the prices will vary considerably with your controller. SuperX new but apparently competent and reasonably cheap, the most used WKM from DJI, but others like APM 2.5 etc... there are as many as there are rigs but most have never heard of them - READ HERE for a list.

You will then have to balance flight time with motors, lipos, and props.... the dilema gets worse the more you read up about it. Sorry for being less than helpful in your choices but life was never meant to be a breeze.

Oh then just when you thought you were getting your head round it you have the further dilemma of Quad, Hexi or Octi...... the choices are not obvious but Quads are more reliable and efficient, Hexis and Octis more redundancy but also prone to numerous other issues like shorter flight times, more risk of mechanical or electrical failure etc...... You hate me now - Don't you.

You could buy a phantom and get satisfactory results and if it nose dives buy another one.... for the price of 6 Phantoms you could buy an S800......
 

R

rilot

Member
All good info, thanks.
I've been flying multis for a while and so am aware of many of the advantages and disadvantages of the different configurations. I'm more interested in what people are using to lift the sort of camera that I want to use. Stories of reliability in the field etc. It's one thing to have a multi as a toy, but to have one as a tool it's a different matter as when it's grounded, it costs money in lost business.
I've got flight time on DJI gear and the APM so am also aware of the preference for each technology from different users.

What I'm kind of fishing for is someone to say something like "I was using a S800 but I was grounded for ages for certain reasons so I switched to a Carboncore and now I'm happier". That sort of thing.
Most established frames are good and will fly well with the right gear attached but it's the spares availability and easy of servicing in the field that's the key.
 

W

wearypanda

Member
My platform of choice is a Vulcan 900mm hex. I use it to carry a Cinestar 3 axis (converted to brushless on roll & tilt with Radian control of pan) or Zen. Camera of choice is a hacked GH2, although the Cinestar will carry bigger if required. Flight controller is a WKM.

I made this choice of platform after about 4 years of messing about with Arducopter and others. Some of these are pretty good, but in my view (and experience) they are still too flaky for professional work. The WKM just works and the Vulcan frame is very high quality, sensibly priced and backed by an excellent service from Alex who is in the UK. Spares normally arrive next day and there are plenty of useful innovations released by Vulcan on a regular basis.

I'm very happy to talk with you if you think it would be helpful. PM me.

Cheers

Andrew
 
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Carapau

Carapau

Tek care, lambs ont road, MRF Moderator
It seems to me that for pro photography, the most overlooked item is the gimbal in terms of priorities. In my opinion this is THE most important item, especially if you are taking video (which you said you were going to do a bit of). You can have the swankiest aircraft and camera but if the gimbal is pants, so too will be your footage. With a mediocre aircraft but with a great gimbal then you will still get excellent footage. For the cameras you have mentioned there is only one sensible gimbal choice at the moment, the Zenmuse. See what aircraft this attaches to. The EVO naturally, and this aircraft is not as bad as it is often portrayed, or the Carbon Cores I believe are designed for a direct fit. Other aircraft can be modified but this starts becoming a bore.

In a few months time as brushless tech matures there will be loads of gimbals that just work every time straight out of the box with no tweaking but at the moment the Zenmuse is one of the few that is already there. If you have the time and the patience then there are certainly other brushless options but I will be the first to admit my knowledge of these is limited so if anyone else knows of a setup as simple to get working as a Zen I am sure they will pipe up here
 

CrashMaster

CrashMaster

Member
XAircraft X650 Pro http://www.xaircraft.co.uk/acatalog/Xaircraft-X650-Pro.html
DJI WKM - 50 way-points
DJI 2.5Ghz DL
DJI iOSD
Hitec 9TX and RX 2.4Ghz
7" monitor on TX + 5" monitor for Customer view.
Immersion 5.8Ghz 25mw AV TX http://www.immersionrc.com/product-details.php?fpv_product=11&fpv_product_name=5.8GHz%2025mW%20Tx
Gopro with 60 degree lense http://www.pimp-your-kopter.de/gopro-objektive/60-fuer-gopro-black-silver-and-white.php
AerXcraft 2X BL Gimbal http://www.aeroxcraft.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_25&products_id=41

5,800 to 8,000 Lipos 14.8v (but am looking at 8.4A Life Cells - i.e no fires!!!)

Loaded and flying MTOM is 3KG above flight weight is 2.6KG leaving a spare 400g able to take onboard a Sony Nex 5r with the standard Xaircraft servo 2X gimbal making the take off weight 2.85Kg.

Flight time with Gopro is between 15 and 19 mins and 12-15 mins with Nex 5r. flying about fast sucks the power. A simple get up there and hover to get the right shot means more air time. I don't own a Nex 5r yet but can borrow a friends if needed for anything specific. Hoping he will upgrade and I will buy his.

The complete set-up including 6 lipos, GS. monitors, Gopro, lense, gimbal, C F Props, Gimbal BEC, Camera BEC, AV TX, DL, iOSD, Way-points etc... was around £4,500.

Being a quad it has no redundancy for prop, motor or ESC failure but to this time with over 40 hours on the clock now I have changed one motor due to baring loose and no serious incidents or damage. The complete set up is standard XAircraft gear and xAircraft 30A ESCs and not their normal 20A.
 

R

rilot

Member
Brill, thanks guys. More great info.
You're right about the gimbal. I'm not afraid to set up a gimbal using an AlexMOS controller or somesuch. I've done it for smaller gimbals.
I am drawn to the Zenmuse simply because they are so solidly constructed. I don't need 3 axis for what I'm planning to do (well, I don't think I do) as I'll be solo to begin with.
 


J

jrlederer

Member
Sorry to be a nag, butiI don't think you mentioned a couple key elements that may or may not be in your list of requirements :
1 . Do you plan to travel via comercial airlines regularly ir el static around your home base be sufficient for what you plan to do?
2. How critical is it for you to be able to easily break down the setup in order to transoort and upon arrival have it back together and flight ready within a few hours, or will an entire day suffice?
3. What is your goal as far so budget is concerned. If you have no constraints in that department then by al means why go with (for now, at least) anything other than the zenmuse 3d for the specific camera you intend to use?

(unconfirmed rumor, but a very reliable source has mentioned to me that DJI had their r&d working double - time on heavy lift amazingly reactive gimbals... On par with zenmuse, but built for the likes of RED cameras)

Good luck with whatever you ultimately decide upon!

Jonathan
 
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R

rilot

Member
No travel with commercial airlines
No need to break the multi down beyond the ability to transport in the back of a Range Rover
My goal is to get up and running for less than £10k. This is including the flight certification and the liabilities insurance

I won't be needing to fly a Red EPIC or anything like that as the majority of my work is going to be stills. I won't be working to broadcast quality with any video I do.
 

J

jes1111

Active Member
If most of your work will be stills then the Zenmuse is possibly not ideal for you - it is so sensitive to balance that you can't even use a zoom lens because of the shift in CG. The performance requirements for stills would seem to be easier than video, until you try zooming. A hyper-wide and a decent shutter speed will mask a surprising amount of vibration and camera movement but at, say, 105mm (FF) you may struggle to get a sharp image, particularly in low light. Many have suggested (though I've never tried myself) that for stills it's better to switch off the stabilisation, i.e. just use the gimbal for pointing - not sure I agree. The high pixel count means, of course, that you can afford to level the horizon by cropping. An "old fashioned" servo driven gimbal may actually be better (and cheaper) for stills - you can carry a full-size DSLR with some good glass - something that would be very expensive to do for video.
 

Bartman

Bartman

Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
jes1111 said:
........An "old fashioned" servo driven gimbal may actually be better (and cheaper) for stills - you can carry a full-size DSLR with some good glass - something that would be very expensive to do for video.
Click to expand...

O....M....G....!

Might we actually agree on something after all? :)
The "old fashioned" servo driven gimbal ain't dead yet. They can carry a sizeable load but that heavy load can be swiftly removed and replaced with a much lighter load without worrying about the precise balance the brushless gimbals need. When shooting stills I routinely remove my heavy wide angle zoom and replace it the much lighter kit lens while the camera body is still attached to the camera mount and without moving it after the lens swap. The mount actually gives pretty consistent results whether it's carrying a GoPro or a T2i with the 10-22 lens. There's room for a 5D but I haven't had the necessity to fly one yet.

The key thing about going "Pro" is to define what it is you want to do. If you attempt to do too much you won't likely do anything one thing very well. There's money in stills and there isn't much competition if you can do it well. 90% of what I do is stills and I've got it down to where I actually make money because I've been able to learn to do it efficiently and with excellent results. Most of the time I'm tethered due to legal considerations and if I'm anywhere near something with a lot of people I've got a helper/spotter. Doing this safely is also a big part of being "Pro".
 

R

rilot

Member
I have what I want to do defined. It's a single market I'm going after that has plenty of demand which is usually serviced by photographers in real helicopters.

What gimbal do you use Bartman?
 
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Bartman

Bartman

Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
rilot said:
I have what I want to do defined. It's a single market I'm going after that has plenty of demand which is usually serviced by photographers in real helicopters.

What gimbal do you use Bartman?
Click to expand...

I actually make the gimbals I use.

View attachment 14278

The one pictured was done in blue on request but they're usually yellow along with the dome so I can have a shot at finding them if they were to ever fly off. Making everything black looks cool but black equipment is hard to find when it's stuck in a tree, crashed in high grass, at the bottom of a stream, etc. :)

The frame is my design too. I've been trying to get a shop set up but that goes back to my comment that it's hard to do anything well when you're doing too much.
 

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CrashMaster

CrashMaster

Member
Bartman,
You are such an old school perfectionist.....
Servo's and self built to your own exacting specification; how you.... :black_eyed:
I bow to your superior knowledge, skills, and abilities......

Seriously, I like the idea of the machine and the Octi X with 3 bladed props is a little unusual. Does that give you better lift with shorter blades and more efficient flight?
 

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