What arm size should I choose? Dialfonzo Hex

BIGTACO

Member
So I am upgrading my F550 hex over to a Dialfonzo Hex. This guy has some really amazing designs! I cannot wait.

The purpose of this Hex will be high end aerial video lifting a Sony Nex-5N on my prototype self made gimbal (which I will be mass producing and putting up for sale summer 2013). Motors will be Avroto 2814-11, 11x5 props, and two 4500 mah batterys. lipos. I will be providing the carbon fiber booms so I can make them any length I want. The booms I will be using are 16mm 1.5mm wall thickness carbon.

If this were your setup what Hex size would you choose? 750mm, 800mm 950mm?

I want to pick a size that will give the best flight characteristics with aerial video in mind...
 

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flitelab

Member
I suspect you may want to go 12 or 13" props over the 11X5 with that setup and weight. As for overall size my Quadframe Hex is around 680mm motor to motor. I don't think you need to really go much beyond that. 16mm arms may be a bit small as well for much longer, the quaframe hex uses 21.5mm CF arms.

Here is the hex with 11X4 props but I plan to go 12 or 13, currently 2814 iPower 750kv motors.

DSC00138.JPG


Dialfonzo does great work, I have a few of his smaller frames, and his old CNC machine is sitting here now :)
 

tstrike

pendejo grande
I suspect you may want to go 12 or 13" props over the 11X5 with that setup and weight. As for overall size my Quadframe Hex is around 680mm motor to motor. I don't think you need to really go much beyond that. 16mm arms may be a bit small as well for much longer, the quaframe hex uses 21.5mm CF arms.

Here is the hex with 11X4 props but I plan to go 12 or 13, currently 2814 iPower 750kv motors.



Dialfonzo does great work, I have a few of his smaller frames, and his old CNC machine is sitting here now :)

That's the size of my cheap rank azz poor mans eco hex (the CRAPMEH-1). It allowed me to get 2 booms out of one large heli (700?) tail boom. I'm running the same motors too, but I haven't had the time to really play with it much lately. What size is that landing gear?
 




BIGTACO

Member
Thanks for the info my man.

To set my mind at ease I am going to model up my 16mm x 1.5mm wall thickness booms in 3D cad then run FEA analysis to see what type deflection I will see at max possible thrust from an Avroto motor, 4S lipo, and lets say 12" props... I'll report back here with my findings. My assumption is that 16mm thick carbon tubes can handle more than you think ;-)


I'll also run the same analysis for 21.5 DIA booms...
 
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flitelab

Member
I suspect 16mm is strong enough, I just prefer a bit bigger size for larger setups, perhaps overkill. Rather have a bit more size to them with more load on them, especially if you have a hard or uneven landing.
 

BIGTACO

Member
Fair enough reasoning. When in doubt make it stout!

This tactic is safe for sure.

With that said it still will be interesting to do a true analysis and get some hard numbers to look at. Maybe ill go post up another thread also to show the results and help others with boom selection on their custom builds...
 

BIGTACO

Member
Well come to find out correctly running FEA analysis on carbon fiber materials isn't as easy as other materials. The problem is assigning correct material properties to your modeled parts. Most materials are "isotropic" meaning their mechanical properties are the uniform regardless of orientation. But, carbon fiber is "anisotropic" so its mechanical properties change depending on orientation of the applied load with respect to how the fibers are laid out. There are too many factors with carbon fiber for me to replicate its material properties accurately within the program. So what I did instead is get as close as I can...

What I did was take a material that has similar (but LESSER) properties and use it instead. I was able to locate the common stiffness (elastic modulus) value for carbon fiber so I input that into my material properties which gets me pretty close. Below are the mechanical values I used to define my material. I modeled up a 16mm OD / 13mm ID tube, at 15 inches long. With the Dialfonzo hex center plates and motor mounts this results in a 850 mm Hex from opposing motor to motor. I also models up boom clamps at the correct locations per his center plate. Force applied equals max thrust possible from an Avroto 2814-11 motor running on 4s lipo spinning a 13X6.5 XOAR wood prop.

Boom: Carbon Fiber 16mm OD X 13mm ID (1.5mm wall). 15" Long
Contraints: Fixed on the end by two tube clamps positioned as per the center plates of Dialfonzo hex
Force: Force applied equals 1650 grams. (See 1001copters.com thrust test results for this motor, prop, battery combo)



View attachment 8041

Material properties:
Values used are taken from titanium alloy Ti=8Mn, Annealed but with elastic modulus and poisson's ratio changed to match common values for carbon fiber.

View attachment 8039

Here is a picture of the analysis.

View attachment 8040

Resulting displacement = .722mm or .028". So a bit less than 1/32" of an inch the boom will bend upwards under full thrust from the motor. Keep in mind this is probably more movement than it will see in real life since I feel the real deal will have better mechanical properties than what I input into the program. Also when your craft if aloft the motor isnt pulling against a static (unmoving) end, like we have in this simulation. The motor only provides enough thurst to equal the weight of the craft (or if you are accending its pulling with slightly more force).

With this result I feel it would be safe to move the chopper size all the way out to 950mm, using 16mm booms if needed W/O issue. When I have time I'll do another test with 21.5mm boom and see how much stiffness increases and deflection goes down. I imagine it would be a good amount...
 

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