video drone configuration advice

[dingo117]

Hello! This looks like a wiz place to get advice in multi rotors rc helis, etc if you have some time I would like to ask a few questions and get advice thanks!

1. I am looking to make a camera platform for cheap of course!, so I don't need high speed, flipping about acrobatics and high reaction time type stuff, I am more interested in something that is small, stable, will be stable and manageable in every day outdoor winds, can fly forward and side to side smoothly, can hover without jerking about or spinning and can controllably rotate left/right slow and smoothly. I know a drone cant aim its body down without moving forward but I would like it to be able to hold a steady rotation while flying forward for decent down facing shots.

2. my only special payload I believe is the camera, it is the sony as15, it is tiny and light weight (65 grams) self powered, I won't worry about live camera feed just recording for now, it has inbuilt WIFI and phone app, its range is limited, about 50m I think but it is good enough for now. I don't need any gimbal but the option would be nice later on. It also has electronic image stabilization so it can take out some of the bumpiness maybe, and live HDMI output and such so I am sure I can hook it up to a transmitter later.

3. I already have an old 4 channel receiver (HiTec HFS-04MG) and transmitter (LASER 4) the transmitter has 4 trimming sliders for the thumb sticks and 5 switches to reverse the channels, and to toggle (V-tail, off, elevon) options which I guess are for fixed wings and should keep it set as off I guess? Would I be able to use this existing controller setup?

4. I know only basics about multi or single rotor craft but I do know general electronics, soldering etc, and a lot more about li-po batteries, amp hour, C rating, voltage, cell balancing, charging etc! Not sure on using a single rotor or multi rotor but I know a single rotor is more efficient hence longer fly time but did I have seen the complex rotor mechanisms on a single rotor and it looks like it would be hell to repair/replace after a crash so a multi rotor might be better choice?

5. I know for location stability you can use GPS wizardry to keep a drone stable in location but I don't think I need that. I am more interested in rotation stability having it hover decently, I saw the "CC3D Atom OpenPilot Flight Control Board Authorized" on hobby king it states 3-axis Gyroscope array and 3-axis Accelerometer. Is the Accelerometer to help keep it stable position wise without using GPS? And would this device work with my receiver just plug in the 4 channels and then plug in 4 ESC's in to the CC3D?

6. I have never flown a multi rotor before, how is the control scheme set up with or without say the CC3D?

7. I would like it to stay in the air for at least 10 minutes before needing to replace the battery or recharge.

8. what difference does overall size make, the larger it the more stable it is? The more payload it can carry? Would I be able to use a tiny drone to hold my small camera and fly easily in the general outdoor winds? What is sacrificed.

9. I like the idea of the drone being compact and able to fold for storage, I know folding may mean a weaker arm joint but I think it would be worth the convenience since this drone needs to be carried via backpack! Any ideas on how good this frame might be for my small camera and needs: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=61389

10. I guess motor type, propeller type, battery configuration, ESC type and frame type are the 5 key variables to the type of flight performance I want and payload I want? This is where I know nothing about brands and specifications, combinations, etc. I need some advice to achieve my goal stated in Q1 holding the camera stated in Q2, thanks!

11. ALSO, this question may take more time to answer so you can ignore this one but I also have a much better camera, the canon 550D it is about 15cm by 10cm by 6cm weighs about 580 grams with a basic lens or 725 grams with a decent lens with image stabilisation. What size and specification craft would it take to fly this camera about like asked in Q1?

Thanks for your time! sorry for the long set of questions.

 

[windward bound]

In looking at platforms for your camera or a camera, outside of the hardware consideration. it is equally important to consider the software that will inevitably control everything. The two working together to give you exactly what you want in the final setup is critical. I set out initially in a similar direction with my quest for a camera platform. I owned a lot oh top-end Nikon gear D3's, D4, D800, etc. and knew how to really use it well to get what I wanted. I looked at everything and everywhere. I have ended up with, for more reasons than I could possibly list here, a DJI 1000 and a Inspire 1 Pro with the Zenmuse X5 for 4K. I would be happy to answer specifics, just let me know how I can help.

 

[Fernando]

Hi Dingo!

I think I may be able clarify some of your questions, based on my own experience, because I had some of the same doubts a while ago. Here is what I learnt, i hope it'll help you.

Regarding (5.) the CC3D, etc.

I myself fly a CC3D board on a 250 racing quadcopter and am absolutely happy with it. Until 2 weeks ago I had no clue of how to set a CC3D up, because I bought an ARF (almost ready to fly) model and had to do part of the work on my own, like adding the receiver and setting the FC (flight controller) up. But 2 YouTube tutorials later (I personally recommend the "painless360" channel, because it's great) the thing was flashed with the firmware and set up. So, if you go with the CC3D, it'll be easy to set up and it flies like hell without even changing the default settings.

Regarding the GPS, its actually used by the FC so the copter can know where it is in 3D space but i don't think you need it if you are just flying around with a camera attached to the multirotor. Setting the GPS up is much more work to get everything working and, as you are obviously beginning, I would do that as a next step, some time in the future. You can always add the GPS later. And yes, the Gyros and accelerometers are in the FC so the thing knows how it is positioned in space (like "level", "tilted to the right", "leaning forwards", etc.). It's much like the accelerometers you have in your phone so it can know if you are rotating it to match the screen position, for example.

The Gyros and accels do the actual work, telling the FC the position of the quad, so the FC can work out how much power it has to send to each motor, to get the multirotor leveled out.

You actually CAN fly with 4 channels, but this is the bare minimum. It's better to used like 5-6 channels, because you are going to need, at least, 1 channel to change the flight modes. These modes are programmed in the FC during the setup and they define how the multirotor reacts to your stick input. Most of the time 3 modes are used (but you can have as many as you like and your FC/receiver/transmitter support). One is the auto-leveling mode (the easiest one, and the one you want to use to begin with). Then there is a "not-so-much-leveling mode" which can have more tilting speed, or which just levels the left/right axis leaving the forward/backwards to you, etc. Millions of possibilities there. The last mode usually is the acro(batic) mode, in which everything is completely manual and left to your skills on the sticks. No auto-leveling, no nothing. And a lot of crashing the first times. After 2 months of flying the 250, 3 days ago i summed up the courage to try "acro" and broke about 12 props (and 1 antenna) in the first 10 minutes. But it's a lot of fun ​

Regarding 6:

I already answered that in the previous one. Have a look at some Youtube tutorial and the CC3D is setup with Openpilot (software) and an USB connection to your PC/Mac, in a breeze. No problems there.​

Regarding 7 (10 minutes in the air):

That's a tough one. My 250 has a AUW (all up weight) of 625g, battery included, no camera. If I don't turn on the lights, and disconnect the FPV transmitter and the onboard camera, so the only thing getting juice are the FC, receiver and ESC/motors, I can get to 8 minutes IF I fly VERY carefully. I am using a 1500 mAh 3S battery. With a 2200 mAh you may get to 10 minutes, but with mostly boring flight. Any hooting around, high speed/sharp turns/lights & FPV on, and the time drops to 5-6 minutes on the 1500 mAh, maybe 7-8 minutes on a 2200. You can put a bigger battery in, but that means you are putting on weight and that, in turn, is BAD and shortens the flight time.

Last week I mounted a small 2 axis gimbal on the 250 and, with GoPro and everything, the AUW was 860g. It was hovering at over 70% throttle, which is quite dangerous, but I flew it anyway. I got almost 5 minutes out of the battery (which was powering everything) and then it fell out of the sky. No warning. But I knew I was on the limit, so there you go. But the video is priceless. Especially the "falling out of the sky" part

Regarding 8 (size)

Yes. Size matters. The bigger, the more rotors you have (6, 8) the more stable and the more load it can carry. But the load depends on the type of motor/ESC and the type of propeller you are using. Not every propeller can be mounted on every motor, unless you want to burn it out. So check the data sheets of the motors to see which ESC and props you'll need. The general rule is: the bigger the prop, the slower the motor has to turn and the more power/thrust you'll get out of it.

As I told you, I use a small 250 quadcopter (this is the distance in mm between two diagonally opposite motors) and I do satisfactory filming with a GoPro mounted on an antivibration-plate at the front. The props are in the shot, but what do you want? Usually I have to stabilize the video afterwards with Mercalli 4.0, but even without it, its not bad. So, yes, you can do filming with a small and cheap quad.​

Regarding 9 (folding)

In my humble opinion, I wouldn't fold a 200 (which is tiny to begin with). I have a 250 and I carry it around in a small suitcase which is 34x24x15 cm. With spare batteries, props, tools, FPV screen, the lot... The Tarot 680 I'm building IS foldable, but that's a lot bigger. Just put the quad you choose in the backpack with the radio, and that's it.

Regarding 10 (config)

This is something everyone chooses for himself, based on flight style, intended use of the quad, and so on. But I think you can use 2300 KV motors, hooked up to 12-20A ESCs, using 5 inch props, either the 5030, or 5045 type (which will give you more lift). This is for a quadcopter up to a 280 size or so. The battery, if it fits, can be some 1500, 1800, 2200 mAh. Check the C rating. You want to have 25C at least or more.
​

Regarding 11 (big rig)

Again, this may be subject to personal opinion, but I think for that camera you need, at least, an 800, 900 or even 1000 octocopter (that's 1 m in diameter) with some 13-16 inch props and really powerful motors, like 650 KV or below. The problem is, we are talking about 3-6 thousand dollars. Just the gimbal for that camera can set you back over $1500 easily. And putting that much money in the air needs a GPS, a high quality frame, high quality motors & ESCs, a very good FC, lots of failsafes. And this doesn't come cheap.

As a personal advice, build the small one as a first step, fly it around, and if the hobby agrees with you, step up. It's what I did. First I flew some toy grade quads, to get the hang of it. Then the 250. Now I'm building a 680. And we'll see what the future has in store. But crashing a $150-200 quad because of "human error" while you are learning, or losing it in a gust of wind (as I did) isn't as painful as crashing a $5K rig with your 550D on it because you are still new to flying.​

One final suggestion: just buy some cheap (around $200-300) ARF or RTF (ready to fly) 200-280 sized quad, if possible with radio and receiver, as your 4CH may not be up to the task. Go from there. Maybe add a small gimbal and check out how it works. Progress as you learn. And one thing: you are going to crash. A lot. Buy spare propellers. A lot.

I hope something of the stuff I've written has helped you.

Cheers,
Fernando

Hello! This looks like a wiz place to get advice in multi rotors rc helis, etc if you have some time I would like to ask a few questions and get advice thanks!

1. I am looking to make a camera platform for cheap of course!, so I don't need high speed, flipping about acrobatics and high reaction time type stuff, I am more interested in something that is small, stable, will be stable and manageable in every day outdoor winds, can fly forward and side to side smoothly, can hover without jerking about or spinning and can controllably rotate left/right slow and smoothly. I know a drone cant aim its body down without moving forward but I would like it to be able to hold a steady rotation while flying forward for decent down facing shots.

2. my only special payload I believe is the camera, it is the sony as15, it is tiny and light weight (65 grams) self powered, I won't worry about live camera feed just recording for now, it has inbuilt WIFI and phone app, its range is limited, about 50m I think but it is good enough for now. I don't need any gimbal but the option would be nice later on. It also has electronic image stabilization so it can take out some of the bumpiness maybe, and live HDMI output and such so I am sure I can hook it up to a transmitter later.

3. I already have an old 4 channel receiver (HiTec HFS-04MG) and transmitter (LASER 4) the transmitter has 4 trimming sliders for the thumb sticks and 5 switches to reverse the channels, and to toggle (V-tail, off, elevon) options which I guess are for fixed wings and should keep it set as off I guess? Would I be able to use this existing controller setup?

4. I know only basics about multi or single rotor craft but I do know general electronics, soldering etc, and a lot more about li-po batteries, amp hour, C rating, voltage, cell balancing, charging etc! Not sure on using a single rotor or multi rotor but I know a single rotor is more efficient hence longer fly time but did I have seen the complex rotor mechanisms on a single rotor and it looks like it would be hell to repair/replace after a crash so a multi rotor might be better choice?

5. I know for location stability you can use GPS wizardry to keep a drone stable in location but I don't think I need that. I am more interested in rotation stability having it hover decently, I saw the "CC3D Atom OpenPilot Flight Control Board Authorized" on hobby king it states 3-axis Gyroscope array and 3-axis Accelerometer. Is the Accelerometer to help keep it stable position wise without using GPS? And would this device work with my receiver just plug in the 4 channels and then plug in 4 ESC's in to the CC3D?

6. I have never flown a multi rotor before, how is the control scheme set up with or without say the CC3D?

7. I would like it to stay in the air for at least 10 minutes before needing to replace the battery or recharge.

8. what difference does overall size make, the larger it the more stable it is? The more payload it can carry? Would I be able to use a tiny drone to hold my small camera and fly easily in the general outdoor winds? What is sacrificed.

9. I like the idea of the drone being compact and able to fold for storage, I know folding may mean a weaker arm joint but I think it would be worth the convenience since this drone needs to be carried via backpack! Any ideas on how good this frame might be for my small camera and needs: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=61389

10. I guess motor type, propeller type, battery configuration, ESC type and frame type are the 5 key variables to the type of flight performance I want and payload I want? This is where I know nothing about brands and specifications, combinations, etc. I need some advice to achieve my goal stated in Q1 holding the camera stated in Q2, thanks!

11. ALSO, this question may take more time to answer so you can ignore this one but I also have a much better camera, the canon 550D it is about 15cm by 10cm by 6cm weighs about 580 grams with a basic lens or 725 grams with a decent lens with image stabilisation. What size and specification craft would it take to fly this camera about like asked in Q1?

Thanks for your time! sorry for the long set of questions.