Two clients want me to fly their RED EPIC cameras - advice?

Benjamin Rowland

Benjamin Rowland

Member
Anyone on the forum got experience flying a Red Epic with a Cinestar 8 and 3 axis gimbal? Two of my clients are asking about it. I want to know if there are any issues to watch out for, what modifications I should make, and what would be the ideal way to power things.

Our CS8 flies great, but we haven't gone this heavy before. We'll be doing some testing with dead weight, then a real camera, so that we'll be ready for the shoots. I'd just like to get as much advice as I can before we dive into this. I'm confident we can do it, just want to get it up and running as quickly as possible.

thanks for the tips,
Benjamin Rowland
 

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ghaynes

Member
Send a message to Quadrocopter or to Tabb directly. The answer I got steered me away. While he shows it flying it wasn't ideal. I just did some testing a couple of weeks ago. 4.5kg and flight times were short and was drawing about 100amps total. I saw they just a test of the system with something like 30lbs all up total weight. But there weren't any details on amps/etc. Also run it through ecalc with the weight of the Epic, lens they want to use and a fudge factor for the battery and memory card unless the client can give you that weight. Maybe consider insurance. An epic, lens, the few accessories will be north of $40K in value. Hate to have a failure and no insurance.

Gary
 

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DennyR

Active Member
This has disaster written all over it. The solution is to use a big heli that can lift that weight reliably.
 

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Digitech

Member
we builded CS8 with a Red epic and prime lens
weight of the camera was 13lbs incl a prime lens , we didn't use the red,s internal battery but went for a 4S outside bound to the frame.
it draw about 95 amps on 6S with 4120 with graupners 14x8.
flight time was about 5 minutes.
as for insurance let them worry about that , and you with your airframe.
 


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DennyR

Active Member
I would still like to know why do it the hard way. Hollywood are using SR helis for the most part.
 

Benjamin Rowland

Benjamin Rowland

Member
Why? Because the shots call for it.

How? We're working on figuring that out. Thanks for the feedback. Keep it coming.

I've got an email in to Tabb.
 

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DennyR

Active Member
One big advantage is the speed at which you can follow a vehicle. 120 kph on a TDR. The only downside is maintenance which can be high and you need a good pilot. If a large MR had some form of rotor protection then it may have some benefit on set but otherwise a large SR can do everything better in high winds and you still have all of the DJI bells and whistles.

Unlike fixed wing aircraft, all helicopters have too many vital parts which when they fail the games is over. The development of large 3D electric helis has brought about some superb engineering which has proved itself over time. Mulitple failure points (Electronic and mechanical) on a MR are high risk by comparison.

Those odds are a function of weight. The heavier it gets, the greater the risk.

When you think about hauling 30K of camera into the air think. RISK MANAGEMENT.
 
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hjls3

hjls3

Member
I recall falling in love with the MR from Kopterworx that flew the Red. It was a SkyJib 6 with 12 motors. Here is a video of that MR doing some testing with the Red. Pretty impressive stuff. Good luck and I look forward to seeing the results of your shoot with the Red.

https://vimeo.com/42030489
 

Benjamin Rowland

Benjamin Rowland

Member
DennyR said:
One big advantage is the speed at which you can follow a vehicle. 120 kph on a TDR. The only downside is maintenance which can be high and you need a good pilot. If a large MR had some form of rotor protection then it may have some benefit on set but otherwise a large SR can do everything better in high winds and you still have all of the DJI bells and whistles.

Unlike fixed wing aircraft, all helicopters have too many vital parts which when they fail the games is over. The development of large 3D electric helis has brought about some superb engineering which has proved itself over time. Mulitple failure points (Electronic and mechanical) on a MR are high risk by comparison.
Click to expand...

Actually, a TDR is in our future plans (late fall most likely). Fortunately, the shots we need for upcoming projects using the Epic are fairly slow moving.
 

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ghaynes

Member
Benjamin let us know what you hear back from Tabb. Just saw a couple of new videos. One where Tabb flew 18 lbs and then 30lbs of weight on a CS6. The 18 lbs was pretty spritely. Also a new vide from QC with a 5 lb weight on a CS8 with the 360 gimbal. QC posted some info on the battery, flight time and temps. Tabb's video did not have that data. I'm still experimenting with my CS8. Really want to fly my Hasselblad, 2.2Kg. The testing continues including moving the MK stack out onto the front boom to eliminate/reduce EFI getting to the compass and adding the cooling fins.

As to insurance you can have a customer assume liability but the contract better be iron clad and probably checked with a lawyer. A basic Red with one prime lens is right at $50K with a battery and SSD card. (I've been wanting one for a few months so am aware of the pricing). Even with a contract any damage could be costly. Recent example for a still photographer doing an interior architectural shoot. He was out of the room, someone from the magazine moves the item for the next shot. They dropped it. $300K one of a kind antique. While the art magazine he is working for is the one being sued, if he had been directing the folks even the photographers insurance may not cover it. (http://www.pdnonline.com/news/What-If-You-Break-a--5562.shtml) Life is full of risks. Just choose wisely grasshopper as has been said.

Do give feedback on your endeavor.

Gary
 

DucktileMedia

DucktileMedia

Drone Enthusiast
As an alternative, a producer I am working with just pre-ordered a Sony fs700, which is due to release any week now. This thing will do 4k and some pretty high frame rates. its no RED. but it will definitely do the job with less weight and risk. Still an expensive project but the camera is insured. On a previous project we were asked to fly a RED as well and it just made my stomach turn thinking about it. of course part of that was the fact that they wanted us to drop the heli with a RED Epic out of a real heli to get closer into a ski shot. Not for me. That many anti-anxiety pills would make me fall asleep.
 


Benjamin Rowland

Benjamin Rowland

Member
I've thought about ordering one of the upcoming Blackmagic Design Cinema Cameras, but that thing has a lot of quirks. Most of them won't be an issue for flying, but I'd like to be able to use the camera outside of flying situations. May just order it anyway and live with the quirks. But the main reason the clients want to use their Epics is the resolution, which the Blackmagic camera doesn't offer as much (still has plenty though).

I believe we'll get an Epic flying, but I'm not sure if it is the most practical approach - we'll find out.
 

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jes1111

Active Member
Maybe go buy some lead diving weights to an equivalent weight of the Red and try flying to see what happens?
 

DucktileMedia

DucktileMedia

Drone Enthusiast
Ben, i would definitely plan on upgrading motors before anything. The 2814 would be pulling a lot of amps with that load. if I were to do it i would go 4120 or the model right below it, cant remember the series number.
 

seattle_helo

seattle_helo

Member
I did a fair amount of testing with a CS8 reaching AUW of 17.6lbs on 4S. Using two TP 6600mAh 45C packs gave flight times of 7:30 on average until 14V/10,500mAh consumed. The machine with batts installed ready to fly was 10.1lbs and the load was 7.5lbs in the form of a chunk of stainless steel. I did six flights before I melted the 45A PowerPole connectors on the summed side of the parallel harness. Between the corroded contacts from the connection sparks and 85A average draws in a hover and 150A draws on climb outs it smoked those suckers. So be certain to use high capacity connectors like the EC5 or PRC6. The CS8 can fly a properly prepared Epic with a compact prime but it doesn't have much reserve or room for error. Tabb and David and working hard on creating a nice, optimized heavy lift rig for that kind of stuff.

My camera operator has a FS700 on order as well. I haven't been able to find a full spec sheet listing its weight. A bare 100 is 2.3lbs so I'm hoping the 700 stays under 3lbs for the body. If it ends up being able to record 4k to that light weight Sony SSD side pack it could be a killer camera for aerials.
 

DucktileMedia

DucktileMedia

Drone Enthusiast
What motors on that cs8? I just got a bad tiger motor for the first time. I'll try not to freak out and go impulsively buy some AXI's.
 

Benjamin Rowland

Benjamin Rowland

Member
I've got the QC3328 motors on my CS8. I've got PRC6 connectors on the batteries. I've got 40amp Turnigy Plush ESCs on each motor.

I'm currently flying with 4S batteries, but I'm assuming that I may need to upgrade to 5S batteries.
 
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