PeterLester
Member
Ferdinand...... agreed there is a lot of aerodynamic drag caused by the foam but there could be other causes as well.
The DJI rant thread
- Thread starter MombasaFlash
- Start date
ChrisViperM
Active Member
Mombasa, one last thing you could try before using the sledge hammer....instead of assigning the retracts to a switch, assign that channel to a slider or knob on your Tx....middle is neutral and left / right is action....I also had frequent issues, and that was the cure for me.....maybe it helps
Good luck
Chris
Good luck
Chris
ProPilotWannaBe
Member
I know I am super new to all this compared to you guys, but would there be anything voltage related that could be at the root of the issue? Obviously with the aircraft hovering and the motors,etc. all drawing current, there will be a load voltage drop; could that have anything to do?
MombasaFlash
Heli's & Tele's bloke
Who else has received the email from DJI inviting us to enter their latest Film Competition. I replied to the email:
"Are you joking?
I am professional helicam operator with a stable of different single-rotor and multi-rotor aerial camera platforms and last December I purchased your so-called 'professional' AP system of S800, Wookong M and Zenmuse Z15G. Five months later I am still waiting for it to function reliably without some sort of issue.
Since buying it there has been one problem after another and all I have done is purchase your 'upgrades' for all the major components that have failed. Failed components that you publicly announced had design or software faults and the reason you issued version 2 'upgrades'. As an existing customer with a complete system less than five months old you still completely ignored your contractual guarantee obligations, whereby the faulty parts should have been replaced under guarantee, and charged me for replacing these faulty components. The current issue is the brand new retracts that do not work and so far you people at DJI refuse to find a solution.
So, my S800/WKM/Z15 is STILL out of action.
And now, you want everybody to go off into the wilds with their unreliable DJI junk to make films of mountains and deserts or whatever to glorify your crap products?
You are a despicable company."
"Are you joking?
I am professional helicam operator with a stable of different single-rotor and multi-rotor aerial camera platforms and last December I purchased your so-called 'professional' AP system of S800, Wookong M and Zenmuse Z15G. Five months later I am still waiting for it to function reliably without some sort of issue.
Since buying it there has been one problem after another and all I have done is purchase your 'upgrades' for all the major components that have failed. Failed components that you publicly announced had design or software faults and the reason you issued version 2 'upgrades'. As an existing customer with a complete system less than five months old you still completely ignored your contractual guarantee obligations, whereby the faulty parts should have been replaced under guarantee, and charged me for replacing these faulty components. The current issue is the brand new retracts that do not work and so far you people at DJI refuse to find a solution.
So, my S800/WKM/Z15 is STILL out of action.
And now, you want everybody to go off into the wilds with their unreliable DJI junk to make films of mountains and deserts or whatever to glorify your crap products?
You are a despicable company."
And now, you want everybody to go off into the wilds with their unreliable DJI junk to make films of mountains and deserts or whatever to glorify your crap products?
You are a despicable company."[/QUOTE]
Ah but they did say keep away from people and built up areas. Perhaps we should have our own comp. showing the more truthful aspect of owning an S800. Getting back to the problem, I would rule out voltage drops as the servos are powered from the regulator. Downwash is the cause, you would be surprised how much better the gimbal performs with a wind cover.
You are a despicable company."[/QUOTE]
Ah but they did say keep away from people and built up areas. Perhaps we should have our own comp. showing the more truthful aspect of owning an S800. Getting back to the problem, I would rule out voltage drops as the servos are powered from the regulator. Downwash is the cause, you would be surprised how much better the gimbal performs with a wind cover.
MombasaFlash
Heli's & Tele's bloke
I am really not so sure about that. On a good day the retracts will inexplicably ... work ... once or twice. Therafter they will judder and jerk to nearly half way before snapping down and requiring recalibration. On a normal day they work on the ground and not at all in the air - regardless of whether the skid foams are on or not.
MombasaFlash
Heli's & Tele's bloke
.... and spend more money to fix a brand new thing that doesn't work. It's never ending :dejection:
OneStopRC
Dirty Little Hucker
I do not own one of these or any of the equipment on one, but that is clearly nothing to do with down-wash They do not even attempt to move while in the air, if it was down-wash then you would see some movement in the legs, but none is seen. Mombasaflash has a very legitimate gripe as do most of you, I also hope you get these very expensive rigs sorted out.
DJI also need to sort their s**t out and quit using us as their BETA testers....
DJI also need to sort their s**t out and quit using us as their BETA testers....
MombasaFlash
Heli's & Tele's bloke
So finally DJI have managed to score a Plus Mark. It certainly took time but they have replaced the wierdo retracts that only worked reliably on the ground but not in the air. The replacements work normally and it remains to be seen whether or not they will continue to do so.
Anyway, the point is, credit where it is due. DJI honoured their obligation to replace a faulty item. However, they are still expecting me too pay for returning the faulty retracts so perhaps this episode is not yet over.
And now, in stark and utter contrast here is a little tale about another manufacturer and their way of handling customers.
Anyway, the point is, credit where it is due. DJI honoured their obligation to replace a faulty item. However, they are still expecting me too pay for returning the faulty retracts so perhaps this episode is not yet over.
And now, in stark and utter contrast here is a little tale about another manufacturer and their way of handling customers.
MombasaFlash
Heli's & Tele's bloke
I told you this might not be over yet.
So this is the DJI policy on replacement of faulty units under guarantee:
"... you must pay for the shipping cost. Our rules are warranty goods and defective goods need to be prepaid by the sender."
Hmm? Good, eh? I replied:
"Whatever 'Rules' you might like to fool yourselves into believing are legitimate, under absolutely no circumstances is the paying customer EVER liable for ANY costs involved in the replacement under guarantee of faulty equipment purchased from a manufacturer. If you sell something which is defective the responsibility to replace it with a functioning item lies entirely with yourselves. Likewise, the recuperation of the faulty item is your responsibility.
Anyway, I just wonder how you think you are going to force me to return the faulty retracts at my own expense? I can throw them into the bin and there is nothing you can do about it! I could even sell them on eBay! However, I will not let down your dealer by making HIM pay for either shipping or lost stock because I suspect that you already treat your dealers very badly, if the way you treat your customers is any indication. You WILL pay to recuperate your faulty property. I will ship them direct to China on your Fedex Account.
I feel no obligation or loyalty or even gratitude towards DJI, purely and simply because you have made me pay for so many 'Version 2 Upgrades' of components that should have worked properly in the first place. Components that you have publicly admitted as being inadequate or faulty and yet would not replace under the still valid guarantee.
Personally, I am fed up with trying to get this unreliable, fault-ridden DJI system into a reliably functioning state. I purchased this so called "Professional Aerial Photography" system on 28 November 2012 and it has so far cost me around 12,000 euros. It is now 19 June 2013, almost seven months later, and I am still purchasing replacement modules and having faulty components replaced. I am even arguing with the manufacturer about the replacement of all this faulty gear.
It is positively disgraceful and you should be ashamed. Do you honestly think that you are in the right and that your company's current attitudes are correct?"
And guess what? There is a funny bit. Their Marketing department has just asked me for permission to use a couple of Helicam International videos on their Showcase page !
As Pikey says, "It's alright when you want something isn't it, Mr. Mainwaring?"
Of course the Showcase thing will dry up when this post gets back to them but it won't be my loss.
So this is the DJI policy on replacement of faulty units under guarantee:
"... you must pay for the shipping cost. Our rules are warranty goods and defective goods need to be prepaid by the sender."
Hmm? Good, eh? I replied:
"Whatever 'Rules' you might like to fool yourselves into believing are legitimate, under absolutely no circumstances is the paying customer EVER liable for ANY costs involved in the replacement under guarantee of faulty equipment purchased from a manufacturer. If you sell something which is defective the responsibility to replace it with a functioning item lies entirely with yourselves. Likewise, the recuperation of the faulty item is your responsibility.
Anyway, I just wonder how you think you are going to force me to return the faulty retracts at my own expense? I can throw them into the bin and there is nothing you can do about it! I could even sell them on eBay! However, I will not let down your dealer by making HIM pay for either shipping or lost stock because I suspect that you already treat your dealers very badly, if the way you treat your customers is any indication. You WILL pay to recuperate your faulty property. I will ship them direct to China on your Fedex Account.
I feel no obligation or loyalty or even gratitude towards DJI, purely and simply because you have made me pay for so many 'Version 2 Upgrades' of components that should have worked properly in the first place. Components that you have publicly admitted as being inadequate or faulty and yet would not replace under the still valid guarantee.
Personally, I am fed up with trying to get this unreliable, fault-ridden DJI system into a reliably functioning state. I purchased this so called "Professional Aerial Photography" system on 28 November 2012 and it has so far cost me around 12,000 euros. It is now 19 June 2013, almost seven months later, and I am still purchasing replacement modules and having faulty components replaced. I am even arguing with the manufacturer about the replacement of all this faulty gear.
It is positively disgraceful and you should be ashamed. Do you honestly think that you are in the right and that your company's current attitudes are correct?"
And guess what? There is a funny bit. Their Marketing department has just asked me for permission to use a couple of Helicam International videos on their Showcase page !
As Pikey says, "It's alright when you want something isn't it, Mr. Mainwaring?"
Of course the Showcase thing will dry up when this post gets back to them but it won't be my loss.
ChrisViperM
Active Member
In your situation, I couldn't have phrased it better......
Trouble is, they most propably wouldn't understand 90% of your mail....apart from that, it looks like the reight hand there doesn't know what the left hand is doing....
Chris
Trouble is, they most propably wouldn't understand 90% of your mail....apart from that, it looks like the reight hand there doesn't know what the left hand is doing....
Chris
olof
Osprey
The S800 Zen is fantastic. I was shooting in 25+kts gusts the other day no problems at all. Just kept everything at a safe distance. I even flew my little F450 in more like 30-40Kt wind unintentionally, a small twister came through our airport while I was demoing the MRs. It lifted debris and hay 100' in the air. I just flew as far away as possible from its path, and kept it up a 100' or so. I flicked it in GPS mode and it just stayed perfectly still up there with a 20-30 degree angle into the wind.
Everyone on the ground was amazed, as was I. And I was really relieved when the mini tornado left and I could land. A bunch of RC planes went flying on the ground, but the 450 just thought it was fun.
This is typical of my experience with DJI products.
They work extremely well for me anyway, I know a lot of people have problems, but a lot of us don't. I am just posting this to balance this thread a little.
Personally I think it is great if DJI is updating/ redesigning their products. They seem like a very innovative company to me. I have over a hundred flights on my Zen/S800 rig and it has always been perfect, knock on wood. Lots of others have this experience as well, most happy customers just don't write about it.
My service experience with DJI is excellent as well. I had a Naza go bad and I got a replacement in 2 days from my dealer, I paid for this and in about 2 weeks DJI sent my dealer a replacement for the faulty unit and the dealer credited me for my replacement, I call this excellent service both from the dealer and DJI. I also got version 1 of the Iosd and it had problems, Ireturned it to my dealer and in a couple weeks I had a V2 upgraded version back and it has worked flawlessly since then.
I ordered the new GoPro Zenmuse for my F550, now using a Yun-1 (works well but is a pain to configure and looks like a science experiment with wires everywhere), I understand it will be shipping next week. And I am really exited about this new product.
I always like to show up with at least 2 rigs for every shoot, just in case. Just like I always bring 2-3 cameras on any shoot. I think the GoPro Zen will be a great B-cam and spare. I for one really like both the company and their products. I have more problems with my GM trucks and their service, than with DJI.
So I just figured I would add my rant as well to this thread.
Everyone on the ground was amazed, as was I. And I was really relieved when the mini tornado left and I could land. A bunch of RC planes went flying on the ground, but the 450 just thought it was fun.
This is typical of my experience with DJI products.
They work extremely well for me anyway, I know a lot of people have problems, but a lot of us don't. I am just posting this to balance this thread a little.
Personally I think it is great if DJI is updating/ redesigning their products. They seem like a very innovative company to me. I have over a hundred flights on my Zen/S800 rig and it has always been perfect, knock on wood. Lots of others have this experience as well, most happy customers just don't write about it.
My service experience with DJI is excellent as well. I had a Naza go bad and I got a replacement in 2 days from my dealer, I paid for this and in about 2 weeks DJI sent my dealer a replacement for the faulty unit and the dealer credited me for my replacement, I call this excellent service both from the dealer and DJI. I also got version 1 of the Iosd and it had problems, Ireturned it to my dealer and in a couple weeks I had a V2 upgraded version back and it has worked flawlessly since then.
I ordered the new GoPro Zenmuse for my F550, now using a Yun-1 (works well but is a pain to configure and looks like a science experiment with wires everywhere), I understand it will be shipping next week. And I am really exited about this new product.
I always like to show up with at least 2 rigs for every shoot, just in case. Just like I always bring 2-3 cameras on any shoot. I think the GoPro Zen will be a great B-cam and spare. I for one really like both the company and their products. I have more problems with my GM trucks and their service, than with DJI.
So I just figured I would add my rant as well to this thread.
Although the the 2-3 posts are almost contradictory, I can understand both views. My personal experience covers everything, from MombasaFlash's experience to olof's overall satisfaction.
IMHO, the hardware and flight algorithms are pretty good (except in case of extensive vibrations). When it comes to user interaction, however, there are substantial deficits. The software is sometimes not intuitive enough (e.g. Ground Station, a nightmare in terms of user interaction), the manual is hard to understand in some areas, customer support is very good sometimes (e.g. remote logon to my netbook to fix GS), non-existing some other times (I wrote about 10 different support requests, got answers to about half of them).
One of the crucial factors is the dealer. If he is very experienced and has a good relationship with DJI (no idea how a good relationship with DJI looks like), then he can do a lot to make customers happy with DJI products. If not, you as a customer are pretty doomed. Hence think twice before odering DJI-ware, spend some bucks more to have an expert when it comes to support.
Instead of making polls about DJI we might better evaluate the overall satisfaction with the different dealers. Of course that heavily depends on where you are living.
IMHO, the hardware and flight algorithms are pretty good (except in case of extensive vibrations). When it comes to user interaction, however, there are substantial deficits. The software is sometimes not intuitive enough (e.g. Ground Station, a nightmare in terms of user interaction), the manual is hard to understand in some areas, customer support is very good sometimes (e.g. remote logon to my netbook to fix GS), non-existing some other times (I wrote about 10 different support requests, got answers to about half of them).
One of the crucial factors is the dealer. If he is very experienced and has a good relationship with DJI (no idea how a good relationship with DJI looks like), then he can do a lot to make customers happy with DJI products. If not, you as a customer are pretty doomed. Hence think twice before odering DJI-ware, spend some bucks more to have an expert when it comes to support.
Instead of making polls about DJI we might better evaluate the overall satisfaction with the different dealers. Of course that heavily depends on where you are living.
ProPilotWannaBe
Member
I, too, see both sides, though my personal experience is more closely aligned with Olof's. I don't have as many flights as Olof on my S800, but it has worked amazing for me. As for my dealer/DJI experience, my dealer has replaced several of my parts for me. In fact, even right now a new iOSD II is on it's way by their own initiative. I explained a technical problem I was having, and he offered to send me another one (mine was bought 2+ months ago) just to see if it is an iOSD problem or my faulty installation or understanding. He has done this in the past as well with a questionable GPS unit I had.
Though I totally feel MombasaFlash's pain, I am not surprised with the having to pay for the shipping. This is actually quite in line with many products in which the vendor's warranty is "guaranteed replacement of the faulty parts, but not including shipping and/or labor for installation." Take, for example, the new shingles I just bought for my roof... they were very clear that the shingles had x many months of warranty covering the shingles themselves, and any labor associated with the installation, and/or delivery would be on me. As Mombasa has expressed, I'm not entirely happy with that, but that is how some company's have structured their warranties. In the long run they may loose customers as some will switch over to other manufacturers or vendors that have a more encompassing warranty.
Though I totally feel MombasaFlash's pain, I am not surprised with the having to pay for the shipping. This is actually quite in line with many products in which the vendor's warranty is "guaranteed replacement of the faulty parts, but not including shipping and/or labor for installation." Take, for example, the new shingles I just bought for my roof... they were very clear that the shingles had x many months of warranty covering the shingles themselves, and any labor associated with the installation, and/or delivery would be on me. As Mombasa has expressed, I'm not entirely happy with that, but that is how some company's have structured their warranties. In the long run they may loose customers as some will switch over to other manufacturers or vendors that have a more encompassing warranty.
MombasaFlash
Heli's & Tele's bloke
No pain here. Just bemused that they imagine I am going to pay to ship their rubbish back to them. I don't give a stuff about a company's warranty structures when I have the upper hand. Or do they have a Ninja Team in the shadows behind my local boulangerie waiting to fling triangular pointy things at people who don't pay postage?
A word about Olof's praise for DJI redesigning and updating their products. You may not have seen it but I wrote essentially the same in response to the thread with the initial complaints about having to pay for an IMU2. I saw it as natural product development based upon experience and I stated that I am happy to pay for technological upgrades if they have discovered a better way of doing things. However, my attitude changed with that particular issue with the DJI admission that the IMUv1 was not suitable for what they termed "Heavy-Lift" airframes with an AUW in excess of 7kg.
Although I actually wanted to buy a Droidworx airframe the new ones were not available in time for an overseas trip in January, so I had no choice but to buy an S800 with WKM in order to carry the Zenmuse - which is what I was really after. Once the retracts had been added to this entirely DJI rig the ready-to-fly weight with camera and LiPo was 7261g.
In other words, this bog-standard DJI "Professional Aerial Photography" system had suddenly become an unsupported deviant ... a "Heavy-Lift"! As such it presumably absolved DJI, in their minds, of any responsibility for replacing the original not-fit-for-purpose IMUv1, purchased with everything else just five months earlier. Five months after the purchase the whole system was unreliable due mainly to defective or inappropriate components. Did I mention that the Zenmuse also had to be replaced, along with the retracts - both defective from new.
I count myself fortunate that I at least escaped the ESCv1 issues, the somersaulting GPS issue and the iOSDv1.
All this DJI gear has come through Kopterworx and they cannot be faulted at any point. The struggle has been with DJI China who make such a meal out of a simple faulty gear replacement. Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate the clean design and apparent simplicity of the S800, the Zenmuse is really nicely made, the modular nature of all the plug-and-play components is very tidy ... there is much to commend. It is the company attitude towards support for faulty gear that really gets on my wick.
THAT is what most of this rant thread is about.
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Flash I have now had some satisfaction in the light that Dave at DJI Europe has issued an RMA no. for the repair of my Zenmuse. I understand that they will repair the unit on site as opposed to sending it back to China. We will see!!! If this all goes well then I think it is a major improvement from the past experiences.
I was not so lucky and gone through the entire package of try and error system of DJI from the earliest days the S800 was introduced. ESC, GPS, HTMI board, IOSD, Arms, IMU, Retracts, Damping kit.. I have been lucky enought to replace some above mentioned items twice! I have paid lots of money for shipment and have been always waiting for replacement parts and looking forward to see if this bird will finally fly problem free when weighting 7kg as specified in the user manual from the beginning.
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