SkyHero Spyder

[Cheshirecat]

Any opinions on the SkyHero Spyder out in the land of "been there, done that"
I am looking at the 1000mm X8 in an attempt to get into the sub 7Kg club with a Zenmuse.

Anbody built them, flown them? 95% of what i read is positive but i guess it depends on what they are compared with.


Thanks

 

[Quinton]

Any opinions on the SkyHero Spyder out in the land of "been there, done that"
I am looking at the 1000mm X8 in an attempt to get into the sub 7Kg club with a Zenmuse.

Anbody built them, flown them? 95% of what i read is positive but i guess it depends on what they are compared with.


Thanks

Its getting under that 7KGs with an X8 which is going to be the hard part.
As an example. the Cortex airframe is a couple of hundred grams less than the Spyder.
With 8 motors/escs and (an A2 FC unfortunately) it comes to 3KG with nothing else.
2x 6.2Ah lipos(Desire) are an extra 1.76kg, then the Zenmuse with GH3/4 you are talking another 2kg thats 6.76KG without anything else you need.
Do you know the weight of the Herkules?

 

[Cheshirecat]

the Herk is just under 250g for an Octo with the bigger heatsink.
Tricky isn't it, i am not convinced the the CAA drawing a line at 7Kg is such a good move as it will start to encourage people to start stripping out redundancy to save weight.
unless they are assuming they will all crash at some point so are only considering the impact energy for when that happens rather than if.

I could go to a Hexa (not ideal) but definately do not want a quad.

 

[Quinton]

the Herk is just under 250g for an Octo with the bigger heatsink.
Tricky isn't it, i am not convinced the the CAA drawing a line at 7Kg is such a good move as it will start to encourage people to start stripping out redundancy to save weight.
unless they are assuming they will all crash at some point so are only considering the impact energy for when that happens rather than if.

I could go to a Hexa (not ideal) but definately do not want a quad.

I agree with you 100%, it could actualy make things more dangerous, you could get away with it by using 1 Lipo, or not have any landing gear, but where do you draw the line.
Good to know that about the Herk, so you can save a bit there also 8 ESCs on their own could be about 280g then add your PDB on again, but its just clutching at straws.

 

[Buzz_Roavr]

Any opinions on the SkyHero Spyder out in the land of "been there, done that"
I am looking at the 1000mm X8 in an attempt to get into the sub 7Kg club with a Zenmuse.

Anbody built them, flown them? 95% of what i read is positive but i guess it depends on what they are compared with.


Thanks

My XMX4 is at 6.6kg with AV130 and a Sony Camcorder with x 2 4 cell.

I'd say you'd really struggle with the Skyjib X4 to get under 7kg?

 

[baja-king]

I still think Y6 is the way to go

Sky hero do a Y6

 

[Buzz_Roavr]

They will be the next big thing. Very affordable frames.

 

[Cheshirecat]

I still think Y6 is the way to go

Sky hero do a Y6

Yes they do, the "SPY" Loosing 2 motors would win back maybe 300 - 400g when you factor in the Motors, an arm, the esc's etc... Andreas makes a version of the Herkules for a HEX so that shouldn't be a show stopper, the only issue with the SPY is the overall size of the platform for the avionics, the Sky Hero web site isn't all that great for information but i have pinged them an e-mail to see if can get more details.

In terms of Y6 Vs X8 Given the range of modern motor availability from the likes of Tiger i am confident that lifting power is not too much of a challenge, in terms of redundancy my understaing is, with an X8 it can often go un-noticed that one has failed, where with a Hex (flat or coax) if you loose a motor the craft will spin due to torque imbalance.

 

[Cheshirecat]

My XMX4 is at 6.6kg with AV130 and a Sony Camcorder with x 2 4 cell.

I'd say you'd really struggle with the Skyjib X4 to get under 7kg?

I have no chance :nevreness:

 

[Quinton]

with an X8 it can often go un-noticed that one has failed, where with a Hex (flat or coax) if you loose a motor the craft will spin due to torque imbalance.

Not the case with a straight hex, not sure about Y configuration.
Heres one with a motor out and carrying 3 KG payload.

https://vimeo.com/87086309

Some reason vimeo vid is not embedding!

 

[Cheshirecat]

Hmmm, that's interesting and reassuring. It seems quite happy hovering there on 5.

Thanks Quinton.

 

[nuclear]

Hmmm, that's interesting and reassuring. It seems quite happy hovering there on 5.

Thanks Quinton.

from what i understood:
depending on the AUW and thrust of the craft will change the reaction it has when it loses a motor
When you hover at lower than 60% (my math guess says it should be around 66% for an hexa), you should be able to fly without spinning around but you will lose some reaction since the 2 remaining (in the same direction as the lost one) will be at near 100% throttle to give the same level of thrust as the 3 others at 66%
if you go higher than that, then it will spin because it's unable to have the same thrust ratio between ccw and cw.
i might have messed the math, but that was my undestanding (and from experience, it was around that, my mini spider worked correctly with one lost motor, but my loaded f550 had more trouble and was spinning)

 

[Cheshirecat]

from what i understood:
depending on the AUW and thrust of the craft will change the reaction it has when it loses a motor
When you hover at lower than 60% (my math guess says it should be around 66% for an hexa), you should be able to fly without spinning around but you will lose some reaction since the 2 remaining (in the same direction as the lost one) will be at near 100% throttle to give the same level of thrust as the 3 others at 66%
if you go higher than that, then it will spin because it's unable to have the same thrust ratio between ccw and cw.
i might have messed the math, but that was my undestanding (and from experience, it was around that, my mini spider worked correctly with one lost motor, but my loaded f550 had more trouble and was spinning)

I see your reasoning but why do you say 66% hover for a Hex. Do you mean generically for a Hex or for your Hex?.
I am interested in the calculation to that conclusion, only because i had planned to nail the hover at 50%. When i built my X8 i selected the motors to give a hover at 50% which it does (Maybe closer to 55% with the Gimbal and Camera) i would endeavour to hit this again with the Y6.


Thanks

 

[nuclear]

I see your reasoning but why do you say 66% hover for a Hex. Do you mean generically for a Hex or for your Hex?.
I am interested in the calculation to that conclusion, only because i had planned to nail the hover at 50%. When i built my X8 i selected the motors to give a hover at 50% which it does (Maybe closer to 55% with the Gimbal and Camera) i would endeavour to hit this again with the Y6.


Thanks

well if you hover at 66%, losing 1 motors means you're now hovering at around 77% if you take it only as percentage (66 divided by 66 means each motor is producing 11% thrust)
but that's not really the case if you want to maintain heading
hover at 66 and lose one motor (let's say CW motor), then the ccw motors stays a 66% but the 2 remaining cw motor have to pickup the lost one and now run at 100% throttle (well not completly exact but a nice rounding... let's do it with thrust)

let's start with an hexa (6motors like kde 4014-380 running 15 inch props, i'll base the calculation on the spec sheet, exact number doesn't really matters) and an auw weight of 6.6kgs
so each motors are producing 1.1kg of thrust (around 50% throttle)
lets lose the same cw motor. CCW motors still need to produce 1.1 kg of thrust but the remaining 2 cw need to produce 1.65 kg of thrust to maintain hover and direction
so the hexa was hovering at 50% in the beginning now has 2 motors at around 66% and 3 motors at 50%
if the auw is 10kg, then hover is at 66%, lose 1 and the remaining have to run at around 85% (since motor thrust is not linear with throttle, my example above was off a bit)

all that with optimist calculations from spec sheet
x8 would be the same thing but lower throttle percentage

 

[mangoats]

Here was my 850 build, there might be some information in here that could help you out. Let me know if you have any questions.

http://www.multirotorforums.com/showthread.php?17146-Sky-Hero-Spyder-850-build

Thanks,
Chris

 

[Cheshirecat]

Thanks for the detailed reply, appreciated.
I will plug it into the maths when i get to motor selection time. I have spent time working out AUW/dual Power paths and flight times, so far i have around 16 Mins at 7Kg with 2X 4600 6S which is what i get from the SkyJib with 2 X 8300 6S so it looks like i will press on with a Skyhero and refer back to your info at the motor selection part.

Thanks
Again

 

[Cheshirecat]

Brilliant just what i needed, the manufacturer web site is poor for information (Like so many in the MR world) so this hits the spot.

 

[Braunfelt]

I fly an 850 as well, I love it. with GoPro 3 axis gimbal, and dual 6600mAH batteries and larger props you have 2kg additional headroom to load up. With larger camera it will eat that up pretty fast.

the Frame itself is amazing and I have lost 1 motor n flight and didn't realize it until I landed. It did shift for a second when the motor was lost but once autopilot corrected motor compensation it flew like nothing was wrong.

have been looking at the Y Spy as possibly a 2nd vehicle or the new 450 Spyder for small frame to film in tight spaces.

 

[Amerly]

Hi Cheshirecat,

I was bout to go the same way as you... A year ago... SH frames are super heavy ! I don't see how you could get under 7Kg in a flying X8 config with a Zenmuse and camera !

KW get about 8Kg with it and I don't think it include a camera... And look how it destroyed the initial look of that sweet little bird !
http://kopterworx.com/rtf-skyhero-spyder.html
https://www.facebook.com/Kopterworx...5063570963/671176802917785/?type=1&permPage=1


I have a lovely Spyder 6 and am now building a Gryphon Dynamics X8 with retracts. I think thats a much better frame to start with (no play in the arms, no messy motor mount angle guessing, very light, foldable over the payload, no weak plastic motor mount, no CG adjustments (symetrical), much more accessible space for electronics (that sucks a lot on the SH frames, about 10cm x 20cm X 3cm usable inside the spyder) and proper landing gear and simple rail payload attachment)... Herk III also fit nicely...

Sky-Hero frames are beautiful and cheap ! For fun only in my opinion... I will still buy the new Little Spyder next, lovely to replace my Phantom

Good luck !

 

[Cheshirecat]

Hi Cheshirecat,

I was bout to go the same way as you... A year ago... SH frames are super heavy ! I don't see how you could get under 7Kg in a flying X8 config with a Zenmuse and camera !

KW get about 8Kg with it and I don't think it include a camera... And look how it destroyed the initial look of that sweet little bird !
http://kopterworx.com/rtf-skyhero-spyder.html
https://www.facebook.com/Kopterworx...5063570963/671176802917785/?type=1&permPage=1


I have a lovely Spyder 6 and am now building a Gryphon Dynamics X8 with retracts. I think thats a much better frame to start with (no play in the arms, no messy motor mount angle guessing, very light, foldable over the payload, no weak plastic motor mount, no CG adjustments (symetrical), much more accessible space for electronics (that sucks a lot on the SH frames, about 10cm x 20cm X 3cm usable inside the spyder) and proper landing gear and simple rail payload attachment)... Herk III also fit nicely...

Sky-Hero frames are beautiful and cheap ! For fun only in my opinion... I will still buy the new Little Spyder next, lovely to replace my Phantom

Good luck !

Thanks for the info.
Are you saying that the SH frames are a bit sloppy with lots of play in the arms and the plastic motor mounts are a weak spot? (i did question the plastic motor mounts in my own mind) i have looked at the Gryphon frames, no idea on weight for the Y6 seeing as the manufacturer do not think it is an important specification on the web site.
The complexity of the Gryphon frames worry me, all those electrical contact points to go wrong in the arms. Great when they are new but how about 8 Months down the road when they have been connected/disconnected many times and exposed to moisture and vibration etc... i never liked that feature in the DJI frames (i am a big fan of, connect it, secure it, leave it alone)