SimonK Flashed ESC Programming?

[mbsteed]

I just received my preflashed ESCs with SimonK firmware. My understanding is that I don't need to program those other than to calibrate the throttle. For instance, I just wanted to ensure that I don't need to set that up for NiCAD batteries rather than Lipo so that I don't have the ship fall out of the sky on low battery. Can someone verify that my understanding is correct?

 

[Thalios]

Depends on which you got, but most of them are pre-programmed to work as you described. Throttle calibration is a must though as each radio is different.

 

[mbsteed]

I purchased these:

Heavy Lift Octo:

http://www.altitudehobbies.com/ipea...ulticopter-esc-w-simonk-firmware?search=ipeak

I note it does say no programming required but I would like to be on the safe side - I have sent an email to the company but they may not know either (haven't heard back).

Medium Lift Oco:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/..._Motor_Speed_Controller_SimonK_Firmware_.html

I know that the Afro ESCs are set properly - there is a manual that states it ignores low voltage.

 

[mbsteed]

Update: I just received this confirmation from Altitude Hobbies (LVC - Low Voltage Cutoff).

"Yes, I have been told by iFlight that they do not have a LVC at all (which is part of the SimonK firmware), so you shouldn't have to worry about the ESC shutting down when the voltage gets drawn down. However, you will want to make sure your flight controller is set for NiCd as I have seen some brands have a built-in LVC in the board."


That is good news - that gives me a bit of piece of mind. However, in the Flight Controller you probably won't see it described as a NiCd option but more likely described as Low Voltage Fail Safe.

 

[mbsteed]

Update: reworked both ocotocopter platforms and replaced all the ESCs - that took more time than I thought it would; in both cases quite a bit of wiring and connections had to be redone. Now waiting for nice weather - that could be a while - it is now -30C. I am anxious to test the ships with the new ESCs to see if that resolves some problems. I have done bench tests and all seems fine but the real test is how those perform in the air.

 

[PilotMan]

That SimonK low voltage protection has almost made me loose my copter now twice with my nex5 on board.

I have protection on my Naza...... Would rather scrap a $50 battery that loose my ship.

Anyone know how to re-flash these dam things to take it off? :apologetic:

 

[mbsteed]

I assumed that SimonK was programmed for NiCad batteries rather than Lipo so you wouldn't see this problem. Are you sure that this caused the problem? What ESCs did you use? The other question is do you have a Voltage monitoring device onboard to warn you? I use Spektrum telemetry so low voltage is rarely a problem because I am warned early once the voltage starts to go past a certain level. However, I would like the assurance that the ESCs are programmed properly.

 

[PilotMan]

What does programming the ESC's to NiCad do..... Im assuming that NiCad can be drawn a lot lower than LiPo?

I am sure the two near crashes I had were the ESC's. They are Maytech SimonK Flashed 40A-OPTO.

Im running a DJI Naza and have the voltage monitoring set up to give me plenty of warning. Problem is the second level warning has no time to trigger because the ESC's goto half throttle before it can kick in.

I assumed that SimonK was programmed for NiCad batteries rather than Lipo so you wouldn't see this problem. Are you sure that this caused the problem? What ESCs did you use? The other question is do you have a Voltage monitoring device onboard to warn you? I use Spektrum telemetry so low voltage is rarely a problem because I am warned early once the voltage starts to go past a certain level.

 

[mbsteed]

With traditional ESCs you should program those to NiCad batteries rather than Lipo because that will allow the multicopter to drain the battery (possibly damaging the battery) but might stop the ship from falling out of the sky. I would assume the SimonK programmed ESCs would already be set for that.

Are you sure those have been flashed with SimonK firmware?

What you describe makes no sense because ESCs shouldn't go into fail safe unless the voltage gets very low (maybe a function of your ESC). For instance the factory default for Maytechs is set to Lipo battery and Medium low voltage cutoff which is 3.00V which again is very low. There is another setting that controls what happens if low voltage is sensed - either reduce power or hard curt off which instantly cuts motor power.

I suspect your ESCs are not flashed or programmed incorrectly. Further you need to check voltages on your battery and see if those are getting close to 3 V per cell. Maybe you have programmed the Naza with the wrong low voltage warnings. Your warnings should kick in well before it gets close to the 3V limit - beyond that you will destroy your battery.

My question is how can a person verify that ESCs are indeed flashed with SimonK when those are advertised that way?

 

[PilotMan]

Yes..... I agree.... They don't say they are SimonK Flashed but the RC-Drones.com guy said they were..... What ever that means.

I have fallen from the skies now twice while tuning the Naza for voltage protection with conservative numbers well over 3v per cell. One was my fault after flying on a depleted battery (that wont happen again) But measured the battery and had plenty left in reserve. Naza as Im sure you know has an autoland function for its level 2 protection of which I cant get close to because of the ESC's shutting me down.

Like I said... would waste a battery that kill the platform and 7 hundred bucks in camera. :hopelessness:

With traditional ESCs you should program those to NiCad batteries rather than Lipo because that will allow the multicopter to drain the battery (possibly damaging the battery) but might stop the ship from falling out of the sky. I would assume the SimonK programmed ESCs would already be set for that.


What you describe makes no sense because ESCs shouldn't go into fail safe unless the voltage gets very low (maybe a function of your ESC). Are you sure those have been flashed with SimonK firmware? For instance the factory default for Maytechs is set to Lipo battery and Medium low voltage cutoff which is 3.00V which again is very low. There is another setting that controls what happens if low voltage is sensed - either reduce power or hard curt off which instantly cuts motor power.

I suspect your ESCs are not flashed or programmed incorrectly. Further you need to check voltages on your battery and see if those are getting close to 3 V per cell. Maybe you have programmed the Naza with the wrong low voltage warnings.

My question is how can a person verify that ESCs are indeed flashed with SimonK when those are advertised that way?

 

[eagleview]

Yes..... I agree.... They don't say they are SimonK Flashed but the RC-Drones.com guy said they were..... What ever that means.

I have fallen from the skies now twice while tuning the Naza for voltage protection with conservative numbers well over 3v per cell. One was my fault after flying on a depleted battery (that wont happen again) But measured the battery and had plenty left in reserve. Naza as Im sure you know has an autoland function for its level 2 protection of which I cant get close to because of the ESC's shutting me down.

Like I said... would waste a battery that kill the platform and 7 hundred bucks in camera. :hopelessness:

I always use a battery alarm, cheap and easy to put on board! Have never had an issue as long a I land as soon a it starts beeping. Although it could be a problem for FPV flyers. In that case your OSD should warn you of low voltage. Never heard of programing to NiCad!

 

[mbsteed]

It sounds like your ESCs are programmed wrong. Do you have a manual for your ESC - I would recommend reprogramming the failsafe on the ESCs. Here is a link to the manual. I use a programming card but you can just use the throttle stick to program it as well.

http://api.ning.com/files/RFlZ5oneP...ierSupremandHarrierEconomicalESCsV.5.2013.pdf

After reviewing the programming options it sounds like it might be best to program it to Lipo but LOW voltage cut off (2.8 V/cell) and set the Low Voltage Cutoff to Reduce (on most standard ESCs it is actually better to program it to NiCad):

______________________________________________

* NiCd/NiMh──Set Low voltage protection threshold for NiCd/NiMh cells.
* LiPo──Set Low voltage protection threshold for LiPo cells and automaticallydetects the number of cells within the pack.
Note: Selecting the NiCd/NiMh option for the battery type, triggers the ESC toautomatically set the cutoff threshold to the factory default of 65%. The cutoffthreshold can be subsequently altered through the Low Voltage protectionfunction, if required. The ESC will read the initial voltage of the NiCd/NiMhpack once it is plugged in and the voltage read will be used as a reference forthe cutoff voltage threshold.

Low Voltage Cutoff Threshold

* For Li-xx packs──number of cells are automatically calculated and requiresno user input apart from defining the battery type. This ESC provides 3 settingoptions for the low voltage protection threshold; Low (2.8V)/ Medium (3.0V)/High (3.2V). For example: the voltage cutoff options for a 11.1V/ 3 cell Li-Popack would be 8.4V (Low)/ 9.0V(Medium)/ 9.6V(High).

Low 2.8V/50%Medium 3.0V/60%High3.2V/65%


* For Ni-xx packs──low / medium / high cutoff voltages are 50%/65%/65% ofthe initial voltage of the battery pack. For example: A fully charged 6 cell NiMhpack’s voltage is 1.44V×6=8.64V,when “LOW” cutoff voltage is set, the cutoffvoltage is: 8.64V×50%=4.3V and when “Medium” of “High” is set, the cutoffvoltage is now 8.64V×65%=5.61V.

* Reduce Power──ESC reduces motor power when the pre-set Low VoltageProtection Threshold Value is reached (recommended)
* Hard Cutoff──ESC instantly cuts motor power when the pre-set Low VoltageProtection Threshold Value is reached.

___________________________________

I also use a battery monitor that visually and audibly warns me of low voltage in addition to my telemetry which speaks to me via my iPhone and has its own low Voltage warning (Spektrum telemetry); redundant warning systems.

 

[PilotMan]

I have tried to get into programming many times. Not hard..... Connect and leave throttle high...... One beep at the beginning..... and no more. Im guessing SimonK Flashed and locked.

Any ideas?

It sounds like your ESCs are programmed wrong. Do you have a manual for your ESC - I would recommend reprogramming the failsafe on the ESCs. Here is a link to the manual. I use a programming card but you can just use the throttle stick to program it as well.

http://api.ning.com/files/RFlZ5oneP...ierSupremandHarrierEconomicalESCsV.5.2013.pdf

After reviewing the programming options it sounds like it might be best to program it to Lipo but LOW voltage cut off (2.8 V/cell) and set the Low Voltage Cutoff to Reduce (on most standard ESCs it is actually better to program it to NiCad):

______________________________________________

* NiCd/NiMh──Set Low voltage protection threshold for NiCd/NiMh cells.
* LiPo──Set Low voltage protection threshold for LiPo cells and automaticallydetects the number of cells within the pack.
Note: Selecting the NiCd/NiMh option for the battery type, triggers the ESC toautomatically set the cutoff threshold to the factory default of 65%. The cutoffthreshold can be subsequently altered through the Low Voltage protectionfunction, if required. The ESC will read the initial voltage of the NiCd/NiMhpack once it is plugged in and the voltage read will be used as a reference forthe cutoff voltage threshold.

Low Voltage Cutoff Threshold

* For Li-xx packs──number of cells are automatically calculated and requiresno user input apart from defining the battery type. This ESC provides 3 settingoptions for the low voltage protection threshold; Low (2.8V)/ Medium (3.0V)/High (3.2V). For example: the voltage cutoff options for a 11.1V/ 3 cell Li-Popack would be 8.4V (Low)/ 9.0V(Medium)/ 9.6V(High).

Low 2.8V/50%Medium 3.0V/60%High3.2V/65%


* For Ni-xx packs──low / medium / high cutoff voltages are 50%/65%/65% ofthe initial voltage of the battery pack. For example: A fully charged 6 cell NiMhpack’s voltage is 1.44V×6=8.64V,when “LOW” cutoff voltage is set, the cutoffvoltage is: 8.64V×50%=4.3V and when “Medium” of “High” is set, the cutoffvoltage is now 8.64V×65%=5.61V.

* Reduce Power──ESC reduces motor power when the pre-set Low VoltageProtection Threshold Value is reached (recommended)
* Hard Cutoff──ESC instantly cuts motor power when the pre-set Low VoltageProtection Threshold Value is reached.

___________________________________

I also use a battery monitor that visually and audibly warns me of low voltage in addition to my telemetry which speaks to me via my iPhone and has its own low Voltage warning (Spektrum telemetry); redundant warning systems.

 

[mbsteed]

hmmm... haven't come up against that one yet. Perhaps once it is flashed it is done. I seem to remember something about that - once it is flashed there is no going back. However if that is the case then it would seem your ESCs have been flashed - right?

 

[PilotMan]

Anyone have any ideas....... These ESC's are making me crazy. :dejection: Every time I fly.... Im afraid Im gonna fall out of the sky. :butterfly:

It kina looks like I will have to rip the guts out and start over. Any suggestions for reliable ESC's .

hmmm... haven't come up against that one yet. Perhaps once it is flashed it is done. I seem to remember something about that - once it is flashed there is no going back. However if that is the case then it would seem your ESCs have been flashed - right?

 

[mbsteed]

You might be able to reflash to the latest version of SimonK. I am no expert on that though.

 

[mbsteed]

I have now tested both the 30 A Afro ESCs and iPeak 40A.

The smaller ocoto HFP setup with the Afro ESC flew smooth.

My Droidworx WK-M flew perfectly smooth with the iPeak 40A ESCs. I have never had it fly this smooth but then again that may not be the ESCs per se but having the electronics finally working properly. The cost is that it took two years and two burned out Axi motors, 8 ESCs, totally rewired at least 3 times, checked and double checked connections, pain suffering, anguish, etc. etc. You never want to crash.


I think in the end the Achilles heal of the this build was a bad recommendation from DJI about initial gain settings. I believe that the gain was way too high when we first tested the ship and after the initial crash I assumed the problems was an electrical/connection problem. I think the crashes caused most of the lingering problems (bad connections, bad ESCs, bare wires, etc.). I have no idea why the latest AXI motor burned out - I checked all the connections and those seemed fine.


I hope it continues to fly well. The down side of the Droidworx build is that it weighs a lot so we won't get much flight time. For instance, I noticed I had it just above mid-stick in order to hover but that is without a camera. The weight of this ship and all electronics is probably close to the smaller ocoto (HFP) with a camera. It will be interesting to see how much flight time we actually get with it.

We will have to do more testing but so far these ESCs look promising.