QuadCopter, first try.

M

McMaiden

Member
Hi guys,

I'm not sure if this is the correct part of the forums to post my doubts. If I'm wrong please excuse me and move it to the correct part.

Well I'm trying to create my "own" QC. I want to use it as final career project. The first step is to build a flying, stable and economic (specially economic as possible) quadcopter. Later I want to use this "base" to create an application like indoor guidance for industrial buildings or a toy that follows you automatically. Well I hope so, but this would be in the future.


I have spent few days searching for information in internet about components, SW/HW and guides for noobs like me. At this moment I have a first approximation and a lot of question, so apologies for my ignorance.


This is my first try:


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...UE&usp=sharing


And these are my questions:


1.- The flight controller is my first problem. I really don't know which one use. I'm looking for one with 10DOF and based on Arduino. I have pre-selected these 5, but I'm open to suggestions.


2.- The frames. I love the two ones, so I don't have any problems in take one or another.


3.- The ESC/motors. Looking on internet I have selected these from another posts or users. One more time I'm open to suggestions.


4.- The Tx/Rx. In the future I want to control the QC by using an mobile/table app. So I just want a basic controller for the initial tests.


5.- Battery/Charger: like the ESC/motors, looking for internet. Tell me everything that you want about other models or options. By the by, can I use this charger at home? I mean, at 220V AC @ 50Hz (I'm from Spain).

I want to concrete the elements of my design (asking everyone that can help me) and test them on eCalc after. Thank you all in advance and excuse my English.

Kind regards,
Daniel
 

Motopreserve

Motopreserve

Drone Enthusiast
Daniel,

Welcome to the forum. The link to the google doc did not allow me in. You may need to change permissions???

Or you could repost info with links here. Might be easier for people to take a look at.

And make sure you add your location to your profile.
 


Motopreserve

Motopreserve

Drone Enthusiast
That works now.

I dont want want to seem like a downer, but I would suggest a few changes:

The 2 frames you chose are heavy. I chose the 2nd one - and now wish I hadn't. HK also sells a 515x (or something like that) that looks the same as your first choice - but is less than 300 grams.

Once you get into eCalc, you might consider the D2830-11 motors. They are 1000kv, but handle more wattage I believe.

Do NOT buy that power disto board. I just crashed bad because of it. Solder your own "squid" or get one from another vendor. Also, spend a little and get yourself some decent props. APC or HQ props are fairly cheap - and much better. I had the worst time with the cheap HK props. Didn't track right, impossible to balance.

Regardless of whether you eventually go the tablet control route - you might want to consider the turnigy 9x series of TX. You will want more than 4 channels - especially with multiwii.

I dont know much about the multistar ESCs, but the F-30A (or whatever size you need) is a standard that's cheap and holds up well. They are also easy to flash with simonk firmware.

You won't need those prop savers. The turnigy come with an adapter to hold the prop on.
The f
light controller is your big choice here. I think that you might want to look into APM if you are eventually going to control from a tablet. Multiwii now has waypoints in 2.3, but it's very new and I'm not sure the kinks are worked out.

Good luck.
 


Motopreserve

Motopreserve

Drone Enthusiast
***PUT YOUR LOCATION IN YOUR PROFILE SO PEOPLE KNOW WHERE YOU ARE!***

The frame is called the X550. Seems cheap enough, and definitely lighter. There are other options out there too. You are going to battle weight all the time - so choosing the lightest frame that fits your needs is a god place to start.

The ESCs are correct - fairly standard and inexpensive. flashing is to install firmware specifically written for multirotors. The stock firmware I gather is for planes/Helis. It's easiest to flash with a tool (HK sells them), but once you have it you can flash all the ESCs you want.

In terms of props, I was suggesting getting something better than HK offers. I have many HK props and they are very difficult to balance (if not impossible). You will have to buy them elsewhere. Props like APC, GemFan or HQ are inexpensive and worth it. I have read horror stories of people having the plastic props from HK snap mid-flight. Don't forget to get a prop balancer too. Most people get the TopFlite or Dubro. But HK sells some cheap knock-offs as well.

Also, it's good practice to buy an extra motor and ESC in case you crash or they arrive with an issue. That way you don't have to worry about waiting long periods to replace just 1 item.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

M

McMaiden

Member
Hi,

I have just put my location in my profile, sorry. I will change the frame for this one. Looks quite similar to my first choice.

About flashing ESC, I really need to do it? Is the first time that I've read it.

I will look for other props and post them when I find another options. And.. what is the prop balancer? SW/HW? Once again is the first time I hear about that.

Thanks
 

jbrumberg

jbrumberg

Member
Welcome Daniel-

FYI- I use those Multistar ESC's and have not yet flashed them with simonK. They seem to work pretty well, but I am still so new at this that with my limited experience with quad builds I do not know enough to know what the differences in performance could be. That will come as I continue the upgrade process. Those Multistar ESC's can handle a crash or two and apparently still work. I agree with Scott about the props. I also agree about the need for some extra replacement props, motors, and ESC's. Post freely and often.

Good Luck. :)

Jay
 

Motopreserve

Motopreserve

Drone Enthusiast
ESC: When I first started researching my build, everyone mentioned the SimonK firmware (do a search - believe me you will find it!). It turns out that because multirotors are so new - the ESCs that we typically use are made for planes. Planes don't need (or want) the super fast reaction time that a multirotor requires. Meaning on a MR if you slam the throttle, pitch yaw etc, you want it to react instantly to direct the travel. A guy named Simon wrote some firmware that can be flashed to the ESC that makes it react better specifically for multirotors.

If you look around you'll see that many ESCs sold for multirotors come pre-flashed. Or you can get the tools to do it yourself.

Prop Balancing: I'm gonna let you google that one. I don't think you'll find a mention of a prop being used that doesn't suggest balancing. :)

a balancer is what you use to achieve this. HK sells a cheap magnetic one - but even the good ones are pretty cheap.

http://www.hobbyking.com/mobile/viewproduct.asp?idproduct=19292
 

jbrumberg

jbrumberg

Member
The Multistar Esc's are designed for multi-rotors. They are probably not as fast linear reacting as the simonK flashed ESC's, but they work pretty well. Just remember people were flying multi-rotors with ESC's before the simonK firmware upgrades were available, and in the future, maybe even the very near future there will be an even newer and "better" firmware upgrade available that everyone will "need" to have flashed on to their ESC's. Scott is correct that right now the simonK flashed ESC's are the better ESC's to have, but there are other decent ESC's with which one can use to learn to fly such as the Multistars.

Balancing props can make you crazy. There are many discussions as to how necessary balancing props really is for a newbee learning to fly. Some props are just made better than others as well. I never got any HK props but Scott reports that generally they are poorly balanced. I have Gemfans and HQProps. The Gemfans are not balanced very well generally and the HQProps seem to be balanced relatively well out of the package.

Some flight control boards require a balanced setup more than some other FCB's because of vibration sensitivity. The KK2.0 board with version 1.5 firmware appears to be pretty vibration tolerant. I do not know about other FCB's.

For photgraphy, video, FPV balancing props is necessary.

Just my random thoughts.

Good luck.
 

T

t smith

Member
Look at RCMC ESC's...

http://www.rcmanchild.com/

They work fine for me and his service is second to none, I had an intermittent glitch with one and he sent me out a replacement promptly with no questions asked!

I have this balancer and since I have no experience with anything else I can say it works great for me...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=301100206792

That said, I don't think you can beat HQ props for the money. Only slightly more $$ than HK nylons and FAR better but not as pricey as real carbon fiber props and they balance out nice and are durable. I cut the top clean off of a young Japanese Maple my wife planted with nary a nick in the blades!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Motopreserve

Motopreserve

Drone Enthusiast
Jay is correct. None of this is absolutely necessary. But where I net out with this stuff is if I see many mentions of it, and then do my own research - and it makes sense to my small brain, I try decide if it will take some of the variables out of the equation.

Balancing motors and props MAY give me less hassle with my multiwii board and my quad as a whole. It cost me a few bucks and some time. But if it helped it any way to make my life easier (proven or not) while flying, I feel it's worth it. I'm new and I do t need MORE crap messing me up :)

where jay and I may have differing opinions is with the ESC. If the ESC is multirotor specific (Multistar) - it may already have an appropriate firmware. But for the standard, off the shelf ESC... People did fly them before SimonK. Then they must have recognized a difference in craft design (plane vs MR), saw the need for improvement and created the new firmware. I don't know programming well enough to know whether it's the end-all be-all firmware - but I trust that with both amateurs and pros alike using it, I assume there must be something to it. Might be foolish since I don't have my own imperial data - but I figure it can't hurt.

And as stated above, if it helps eliminate/avoid issues while in the air - I'd rather spend the time up front to take care of it.
 


Motopreserve

Motopreserve

Drone Enthusiast
Those props are still plastic. I may be wrong - but I think all the props at HK are the cheaper ABS plastic type.

You want some type of prop that has is at least composite. It will be harder/tougher, as well as typically better balanced out of the gate.

Check the companies: HQ, APC (not to be confused with the material ABS), GemFan.

Those brands will be the best price, and reasonable quality product. They get much more expensive from there.

Just so you know: I make this suggestion because I have had a really hard time balancing the very cheap HK props. Some couldn't even be used at all (balanced or not) because they didn't track correctly (if you spin them watching where the blade passes at a chosen mark - the 2 blades are not passing the same place). So in the end - this was wasted money. Then I started reading some horror stories about some of these props breaking mid-air. Apparently they don't always stand up to the rigors of pressure applied by a multirotor. I guess they might be fine for planes???
 
Last edited by a moderator:


SoCal Blur

SoCal Blur

Member
I would not recommend Genfan props. I've found that the CCW ones are really out of balance. It acts like the hub is out of balance but in fact, one side of the prop is heavier than the other and it takes a lot of either adding tape or sanding to get them reasonably balanced. The CW ones also need balancing but nowhere near as much as the CCW ones.
 

Motopreserve

Motopreserve

Drone Enthusiast
I agree with SoCal. I offered those as a cheap alternative (and some people love them). I found them to be difficult to balance - but they should not break mid-air. I haven't tried HQ yet - but the minute you have APC on the balancer you recognize the drastic difference to a cheap HK. It's just not worth the aggregation of balancing - and definitely not worth crashing the quad for the difference in price.
 

jbrumberg

jbrumberg

Member
SoCal Blur said:
I would not recommend Genfan props. I've found that the CCW ones are really out of balance. It acts like the hub is out of balance but in fact, one side of the prop is heavier than the other and it takes a lot of either adding tape or sanding to get them reasonably balanced. The CW ones also need balancing but nowhere near as much as the CCW ones.
Click to expand...

That's an interesting observation, but my limited number of observations and balancing experiences have been similar... it appears that it is the hub area but it is not. They look ugly balanced, and I hate sanding those props. Thank you for this information.
 

jbrumberg

jbrumberg

Member
Just out of curiousity. I did a quick and dirty look-see of a HQProp on my TopFlite and it came out of the package looking a lot better balanced than a Gemfan prop of similar size. My HQ SF props are pitched a little differently than the Gemfan SF's. The HQProps are 9X3.8 and my Gemfans are 9X4.7 which will affect performance.
 

Motopreserve

Motopreserve

Drone Enthusiast
Ugly indeed. I end up with big globs of CA on the hubs when I'm done balancing the GemFan. But they DO balance - which is more than I can say for the HK. It's only been in the past few days where I starting reading about them (HK plastic) breaking mid-flight. That's 2 strikes - and I don't think we need a third strike in this situation :)

I need to get some HQ to try out. The APC feels instantly higher quality. So if HQ is similar - I'm game.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.
Top