quad or 6 ?

[XPFTP]

hello all new to the site.. friend got me hooked on video he runs a octi and 3ax gimbel for cam. 2 to fly it . now i would like to do this also . but as i think of all the info . sooo much to read and see ...

quad with 2ax gimbel ?
why no 360deg view ? its done with the quad . pros cons?


6 motor. 3ax gimbel ?

your gimbel has 360deg view on its on . pros cons ?

iam thinking of useing a go pro silver as its 100 bucks cheaper as the black but its the same ... i think lol

or can this cam be hung under a quad say it has 47 inch or 1200mm boom to boom tip ...
with 3ax gimbel ?
also iam wanting to do a FPV on the same system . so this would be 1 person or 2 person . but the poilet would be FPV.
so i guess this would need 2 video transmiters and recivers. so my cam guy can see his cam and i can see the FPV .
so iam sort of in the lost area of the world on all this stuff..
i do fly helis . no iam no pro. i do understand and do tail and nose in flight.. so iam ok on all basic info ..

also iam thinking ??? a FC for gimbel leveling ?
thanks for any ideas and nice to met the board ops old school words for me sorry lol ... "forum" ... where did the dos bbs days go lol

edit... 15 min flight times ?

 

[Bowley]

Where do we start??
Its all down to how much you want to spend (to an extent) and what you want to carry. If its just a gopro then a small quad willl do the job.
The gopro silver is basically a gopro 2 and personally if I were to choose I would go for the lower cost, lesser hassle, gopro 2.
I kind of think there is something to said for quads over hex's, but theres pro's and con's to both.
hex's can be limited in prop size and redundancy is questionable. there is no redundancy in quads (unless its X8 Coax), but the less ESC's/Motors/Props you have the less chance of going wrong (probably not strictly true statistically)
If I were starting a gopro ship from scratch I would probably go for a steadidrone QU4D, Naza V2/GPS with a gopro brushless gimbal.
I get roughly 15min flight times from my F450 with fixed gopro/landing gear with a 4000mAh 4S.

 

[XPFTP]

hi bowley .
yeah budget is up there . "BUT" lol yeah there it is lol .i dont wanna put 20 grand in the air lol so iam closer to 2 to 3 grand area . but how is your video from your setup .
i like it to be say 1 to 10 . at least 7 to 9 ... brushless gibel i bet is nice and smooth . ill look for that .. and yes i like to keep it simple more of a workhorse style build then a rose ..

does the GP2 have video out for transmiters for someone to watch it on ground ?
friend has some sort of canon m something and the video is just awsome on it . but its a 2 grand cam i guess lol

.... ok went and looked at the QU4D ... dude that thing is soooo sweet .... only thing i would need on that is .. transmiter for on ground live video and FPV cam for pilot to fly .. also control of the gimble say from a 2nd transmiter and able to point str8 down .

if this thing can handle the weight ? that is purfect

PS.... i forgot to say .... heat source cam? or fliar ..nooooo iam not a bad person ...
iam thinking serch and resq.. we dont have that in our area. i would love to proved this to the EMS system as a volly .... but yet still have a nice bird to toy around town with ..
so now maybe a detachable cam system .. omg iam doing it again lol .. i went nuts with my helis now iam doin it with quads lol ..

 

[Bowley]

My F450 setup, the gopro is fixed, so smoothness of video depends on the wind really and command inputs obviously, can pull some smooth clips out of the footage on a calm day.
Yeah GP2 has live video out.
You should not need a 2nd transmitter for a gimbal, not at quad level really, you only generally have control of tilt anyway. If your going to go for the 3 axis fully tiltable gimbals your going to need a bigger ship.

 

[ProPilotWannaBe]

XPFTP, when you say GP2, you are meaning GoPro Hero2, right? Not the Panasonic GP2?
As for video transmitter, if your going with DJI equipment (like the NAZA V2 Bowley recommended), you can also use their video transmitter. I have my DJI VTx hooked up to my Hero3. And if you do go with Bowley's recommendation of Naza V2, you can also use the DJI iOSD.

 

[XPFTP]

yes the go pro black i think it is ?
yeah iam looking at hat site he posted. such eye candy mmmm lol .. i found another site has this DJI F550 .
i get lost on the size numbers also .. so iam thinking a small cam for FPV and the gopro for live video recording and such ..so this is where the 2 video transmiters come into play. i think i like the naz fc as they have built in gimble control.. saves a lil wieght there..

edit.. just checked the size of th 550 . this is 550 mm wide ? is so this is 21 inchs ? thats a lil small for a go pro black i think ? even if just a 2 ax gim

 

[Bowley]

XPFTP, dont know what the gimbal stabis like with the new Naza V2 or the new 3.1 firmware for V1, but this function is, or was, the Naza's major weakness. unless its improved, your honestly better off with fixed camera...no stab.
If your going to go for a servo driven gimbal then there are some good stabilizers on the market, picloc, skyline Hoverfly gimbal, radian etc. There are also a heap of brushless gimbals available. time will tell how these lower end brushless gimbals fare up, but they look good thus far, looking forward to trying one sometime.

 

[XPFTP]

thank you bowley on the info .. so 1FC and 1GC = gimbel control .. i probley like that idea more. this way the FC does just that and nothing else ...
bowley let me ask you or anyone else on this .. do you really need say 360deg view for cam ? or can you get away with it on the bird itself ? say even if you sat in one spot .and did the 360 view with the bird . not a 3rd ax gimbel .

lordy lordy so much to plan and learn lol ... thank you to everyone for lettin me drive yeah nuts with this .. i truly did try to read the starter threads lol

 

[ProPilotWannaBe]

XPFTP, the GoPro fits on basically anything, even the F550, F450, F330, and Phantom (which is about a 330). And, yes, that is millimeters across (widest dimension of the frame). There are GoPro gimbals (brushless and otherwise) for all of those frames.

As for two cams... I think Bowley was trying to explain that, for that size, you really don't need two cams. Unless you are getting a retractable landing gear and a 3 axis gimble, the one GoPro camera should be sufficient. And once you start getting to that kind of weight, then you will definitely need a six rotor MR, and probably should be looking at the WKM instead of Naza. Were you thinking a two man setup for this? Is that why you're thinking two cameras?

My F450 w/Naza has a GoPro black on it with 2-axis gimble. For single person video and photo capture its great. It keeps the horizon level, and I can control the tilt to point and the subject, though I have to point the copter at the subject as well. My two camera setup is for my dual control S800 w/WKM (pilot and camera operator).

 

[DDuncan]

Hope i'm not muddying the waters on your selection, but being new to this and an av guy, i'm heading towards the Ecilop frame/style. Probably not the best for a first timer, but i have one purchase and i'm dead set on making the best long-term decision...

Something to check out anyway...

 

[ProPilotWannaBe]

Yes, you can do all kinds. Of 360 stuff from a 2-axis gimbal... It'll all be up to the pilot and getting the yaw axis (heading) of the aircraft to point to where the subject is. It'll take time to get proficient at it, but without a second camera operator, it's really your only choice. The third axis (pan) for the camera really requires a second operator to control as the copter is flying along.

 

[Bowley]

thank you bowley on the info .. so 1FC and 1GC = gimbel control .. i probley like that idea more. this way the FC does just that and nothing else ...
bowley let me ask you or anyone else on this .. do you really need say 360deg view for cam ? or can you get away with it on the bird itself ? say even if you sat in one spot .and did the 360 view with the bird . not a 3rd ax gimbel .

lordy lordy so much to plan and learn lol ... thank you to everyone for lettin me drive yeah nuts with this .. i truly did try to read the starter threads lol

Just as PPWB says; probably dont want to dive into 2 man ops at this stage. plus its a good learning curve to start small and work up, when it comes time to invest in a complex setup you'll be ready for it. and you will always find a use for your smaller setups so its not money wasted

 

[XPFTP]

propilotwwannabe
bowley
if not need 360 3rd ax and use the ship thats fine .
wasnt 100% sure on how good it would work ..
yes sort of thinking 2 man one for the cam one for
flying.. the 2nd cam would be the flight cam . maybe with
OSD on it . maybe iam over thinking and goin balls to the wall lol
but i do want to be able to see the video live . so i
will need to have a video transmiter on it.

and how did you tilt the ca from one transmiter ? is it like forward or down pointing? no inbetween ?



DDuncan
funny you said that. i seen that one few ago looking
around on web and seen a video of it.. tho it looks cool
it looks chessy to me . but its mor eideas all good things




here is what iam thinking so far after reading all your info.
let me know if on right track..


dji F550 , goprop hero3 ,2ax gimbel , naz FC with gps , http://www.rc-drones.com/dji-550-ARF-NAZA.php and there own 2ax gimbel for it
also maybe the waypoint software if i need it.
2nd cam for FPV hard mount so i can see level and all that ?
video transmiter for GP hero . but no idea what one to use . and for ground video reciver on this yet

say i get better so on will the DJI F550 handle totel say 1.5kg ?
or even 2kg.. 3 to 4 pounds


as so far iam in around $1500us on this plain...

 

[ProPilotWannaBe]

XPFTP, I think your list looks good. I have bought stuff from rc-drones and have been very pleased with them.


As for gimbal on it, I bought from rc-drones the FlameGear Landing Gear (also known as the X468 landing gear), and the two axis gimbal for it. Your receiver will connect to the Naza, including a tilt control for the gimbal. (You would need a 6 or 7 channel transmitter and receiver, and connect the 6th output to the Naza X1 input.) The Naza will then have two outputs (F1 and F2) which connect to the two servos of the gimbal. The roll axis of the gimbal will not be directly controlled by you; the Naza will command that to keep the camera level. The tilt, or pitch, of the camera will be controlled by you on your transmitter (I assigned it to one of the side sliders), though the Naza will add pitch to whatever you command so that as the copter is tilted forward or backward (for speed control), the camera does not tilt with it. (I.e. if you have the horizon set to half way up the video, as you bank left or right, or accelerate forward or back, the horizon will remain where you left it.) But the camera will always be pointing forward since you don't have a separate pan control.


As for video transmitter and OSD, there are dozens of options for you. I went with the DJI VTx. I have my Hero3 Black connected to the DJI VTx, and have a 7" screen on my Futaba Transmitter. If you get the Naza V2, then you can also go with the DJI iOSD. The GoPro video output would be wired through the OSD, then to the VTx. If you end up going for two cameras, then you'll need two VTx. You'll have to do the weight computations to see if the F550 can handle the landing gear, gimbal, two cameras, two VTx, and an OSD.


One last thing... You mentioned waypoint software. Keep in mind you won't be able to do that with Naza... at least not that I am aware of. You would have to go with the Wookong-M, Arduino, ZeroUAV, or some other controller.


I hope all of this is helping.

 

[XPFTP]

ok awsome info PPWB. helps big time.. ill look into the DJI VTx . sort of bumed tho the tilt is on a switch so no control persay . its out or down ore or less.. but i guess till i learn more i can live with that ... i was lookin at the x468LG. ill go back and relook .. was looking at all LG with gimbels ..

this is awsome guys great help thanks a bunch...

ops ..ps.. i have a DX6 and 7 .. non dsmx or whatever the newer versions are.. older versions .. i have a 6ch reciver.. or do i drop a dime for a 7 ch ?

 

[Dewster]

Quads are fun, light, and easily transportable. I think the only advantage a Hexa has is the ability to carry more weight. Redundancy of a Hexa is questionable and depends on so many factors.

A quad will easily carry a Gopro and will probably get some great flying time on the cheap: less batteries for flight time.

Ive built a monster of a ship Y6. It weighs seven pounds, designed to carry a Sony Nex camera, Gopro, or Sony Actioncam. Flight time average is 6 minutes to 6.5 minutes under load of the cameras.

A quad is definitely more fun and less worrisome than a large ship.

 

[ProPilotWannaBe]

Here's what you'll need for channels with regards to the Naza: 4 channels for A/E/R/T (basic flying), 1 for Man/Att/GPS selection (basically needed), and 1 for Gimbal tilt. So you can live with 6 channel, but you'd be giving up IOC control for the 3 modes of control. This isn't required, and a lot of people don't use them, so no big loss there, but it is handy. Channel 6 and 7 can also be used to fine tune the gains of the Naza... again, nothing critical, just handy during initial setup. I would personally go for a 7 channel receiver to get the most out of the Naza before putting on a second camera... but that's just me.

I might have mis-communicated about the tilt control. It is totally under your control with any of your proportional channels. I have my side slider (not a switch, but a proportional control) so that all the way down on the slider points the camera straight down, and the mid-point on the slider points the camera level straight forward, and above mid point points the camera a bit above the horizon. So I can pretty much point the camera anywhere from 10 degrees above horizon, to 90 degrees down (straight down), and anywhere in between so as to point the camera at my subject. Does this address the subject you are bummed about? Or did I misunderstand you?

As for the x468LG, Mike Munson (the designer of that LG and gimbal) has a brushless version coming out anyday now at rc-drones. (You can checkout his website at http://www.x468.com.) I am very much looking forward to swapping my gimbal out with his brushless version as soon as it's available. Gimbals that use brushless servos are much faster in response, and much smoother motion. You might want to check into that.

 

[XPFTP]

PPWB...
yeah your on the money with what iam wondering...PPWB.. but here iam lost sort of lol .. what slider do you use? on what radio?
i seen someone on outube use a T9X transmiter with the knobs on top as the tilt so its smooth ot like bang 90 degs or bang its 45 so on .... and on the D6 or 7 i dont think theres a way to do something like this? if not iam thinkin i may have to get a 9X or something that will have the knob or dial if you will ...

dewster ...
willl this is part of my learning curve.. i can tell you on helis that yeah my 500 can lift what i want with no issues.. but on quads or 6 and up . iam sort of lost . is why i was goin to with the DJI 550 .. as i seen a mod for it to lift close to 3Kg i guess witch is purfect ... just change to npn style motors i guess.. < may not be right on the name of the style of motor. and then put 10inch props on it .. i think the guy said he was or is able to lift 15Kg but thats like 30 pounds ... i dont know if it an that much ..

 

[ProPilotWannaBe]

I have a Futaba 8FG transmitter. It has 2 proportional controls (sliders or lever) on the side for the index fingers and 2 proportional controls (dials) on the top similar to the T9X.
http://www.futaba-rc.com/systems/futk8010ai01-lg.jpg
http://www.singahobby.com/files/images/Futaba-8FG-R6208SB-2.4GHZ-Radio-CloseUp2.jpg
I initially had it on the dials on top, but wanted to have for my index finger so I could keep my hands on the other controls.

I am not really familiar with the Spectrum DX6 or DX7 models (I presume those are the models you talking about), but the little bit I just looked up looks like maybe you are correct, that you don't have any spare proportional knobs to use on those models.

 

[XPFTP]

yep. not a thing for proportional .. ok so i will check the futaba. and i think no mater what i should get a new transmiter for this project.
then i can grow into it . so if i go with a bigger bird and want to add few other things i have channels and diff types of control of them .. wow did a quick look.. 400 for that radio .... ok more time to look at the controlers out there lol ...