Aeronavics / Droidworx Proposed SkyJib X4 Build

[teecee]

It is finally time to build a true heavy lifter capable of flying a Red / Canon C300 / BlackMagic 4K etc. We have been doing lots of work with the S1000 / 5D MKIII and the new S900 / BMPCC packages but more and more our clients are asking us to fly bigger cameras, a greater variety of lenses and these "off the shelf" birds with pre configured zenmuse gimbals just won't cut it. They are amazing at what they do but have a limited reach.

Bit of history now... I have been flying for a couple of years and completed a number of custom builds. DJI F450, F550 and Carbon Core Hex. I have had my share of disasters and learned from them. At this point I am feeling confident in my flying, filming and technical abilities (assembly, configuration, soldering etc) but still a bit confused at all the options out there. I feel like I really want to build my own bird to experience that and to fully understand it all but I really want to make sure it is right. Obviously with this kind of time, weight and $$$ in the air there can be no room for error at any level. Basically I am looking for advice. This is my proposed build with my notes and questions listed.

Airframe - Skyjib X4XL Coaxial With Retracts - I like the fold-ability and I am told coaxial is better in the wind though slightly less efficient.
KDE 5215 Motors, KDE 55AMp ESCs with 18" Props - I am a little in the dark here but this was what Aeronavics spec out their Bind n Fly package with although I can't seem to get it to "fly" in eCalc (see attached). What props are suggested??
2 X 16000 MAH Tattu 6S lipos - If I can find someone with them in stock.
Power Hungry Power Distro
A2 Flight Controller
2 X Futaba 14SG TX With 2 X R7008SB RX - THis is what I have on my other birds so I just need to more RX
Gremsy H14 Gimbal - From what I see this is almost as good / as good / better than MOVI for a great price with awesome customer support.
iOSD2
2 X Immersion RC Video DL - This is what I have on the rest of the fleet. Probably upgrade to Paralinx Arrow X or ??? for HD DL at some point in the future.

Weight - ??? - My estimate with Red Dragon & lens is 18-20kg. Wow, that seems like a lot!

I am hoping there are others down there who have traveled a similar path and have some insight based on their experience. Am I missing something. eCalc is not working out for this configuration. Any constructive input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

TC

 

[Carapau]

If you will be flying at 20kgs with that setup, the motors will be pushing those ESCs. I know the specs say that the 18 inch props and the 55A ESCs should be good but I base this on the advice I got from Patrick at KDE. You need to be safe when flying that amount of dollars so I would go with the 75A. In fact that is exactly what I have done with my 20kg lifting X8.

 

[PMaughan]

"Gremsy H14 Gimbal - From what I see this is almost as good / as good / better than MOVI for a great price with awesome customer support."

Hi Teecee, I'm interested in this gimbal but have been put off with lack of positive experience or footage. What have you seen or heard that makes you think different?

cheers

pete

 

[teecee]

What have you seen or heard that makes you think different?

I have been on their FB page for a while and looking at users work and what I see looks as good as what I have seen on friend's MOVI rigs in the real world. I think both these gimbals are basically as good as setup and the operator as long as you got a good one off the assembly line... Certainly a good price and they are right on it with support.

 

[teecee]

If you will be flying at 20kgs with that setup, the motors will be pushing those ESCs. I know the specs say that the 18 inch props and the 55A ESCs should be good but I base this on the advice I got from Patrick at KDE. You need to be safe when flying that amount of dollars so I would go with the 75A. In fact that is exactly what I have done with my 20kg lifting X8.

With the 75amp ESCs I am only getting 3.9 minutes of flight time... Also, motors overheating. It is a tough balance...

 

[Carapau]

Moving from 75A ESCs from 55A ESCs will not affect your flight time. Not sure what Ecalc is telling you. In the real world, at 20KGs with 5215 435s and 75A ESCs am getting just under 10 mins using 16Ah batteries if that helps.

 

[teecee]

In the real world, at 20KGs with 5215 400s and 75A ESCs am getting just under 10 mins using 16Ah batteries if that helps.

Is that with an X4 coaxial configuration or a regular 8? What prop brand, size and pitch? KDE motors and ESCs?

Thanks!

 

[Carapau]

Its a coax octo using Tiger 18x6.1 KDE 5215 435kvs with 75A ESCs (just realised a typo- I originally said 400kv but they are of course 435kv Doh!)

 

[Carapau]

Just put my details into ECalc and it reckons I will hover at 260A at 20kg. I have telemetry on my current and in reality I draw approx 160-180A in the hover. Not sure how accurate ECalc is but in my experience it has always been way off.

 

[teecee]

Got any pics???

 

[Rentakill]

I too have been looking at the payload factor for my skyjib. Needing to upgrade to a gimble that can accommodate various cameras. 20kg for red and lens wow...With regards to the Gstabi H14 is a winner, with cameras supported: DSLRs, Black Magic, FS700, F55, C300, Red Epic,...

 

[Strato]

@teecee I'm planning on building almost the exact same rig as you.

Skyjib X4XL Coaxial
KDE 5215 - 330kv Motors,
KDE 55AMp ESCs with 18" Props
2 X 12000MAH 8s lipos
Power Hungry Power Distro
A2 Flight Controller, BEC voltage stepdown
Futaba 14SG TX for Pilot, Spektrum Dx8 for Gimbal
MoVI M10
iOSD2

Biggest difference is I'm going to use the 330kv version of the 5215's and run them on 8s (if I can find a decent supplier of 8s batteries). On 8s, at 50% throttle, it should give 3350 g (*8=26800 g) of thrust according to the KDE specs. This is a good amount of headroom for a 20Kg AUW. Running these motors on 6s will provide 15200 g of thrust which is a bit underpowered for a 20Kg rig.

I am a little concerned about using the 55A ESCs with this setup. I checked with Chris at KDE and he said it shouldn't be a problem.

I'm curious to hear more about what you decide to build.

 

[Strato]

@Carapau

Between the Vulcan Raven and the SkyJib X4-XL, which frame to you think is better suited for heavy lifting? Do you find the construction to be better on one over the other? I'm on the fence between the 2 frames.

 

[teecee]

@Carapau

Between the Vulcan Raven and the SkyJib X4-XL, which frame to you think is better suited for heavy lifting? Do you find the construction to be better on one over the other? I'm on the fence between the 2 frames.

Sorry, for some reason I was not getting notifications on posts here.
I am not too familiar with the Raven. Look nice though. Where I am the Aeronavics seems to be what people in the film industry consider to be top quality and that is where we will be working so...

 

[Carapau]

I think the Vulcan has the better folding mechanism (two locks and a fail-safe on each arm) and because the booms are not round they are guaranteed to have the motors aligned vertically every time. However I am only comparing the Vulcan with pictures I have seen of the Skyjib so I could be way out. The Skyjib will look more 'Gucci' almost definitely but in my experience the average guy on set just sees a seriously cool bit of kit with lots of arms and props on it so doesnt really care if its a Skyjib, Vulcan, Torrot or match sticks almost! I would probably go with the airframe for which you can get the best support for.

 

[Rentakill]

I think the Vulcan has the better folding mechanism (two locks and a fail-safe on each arm) and because the booms are not round they are guaranteed to have the motors aligned vertically every time. However I am only comparing the Vulcan with pictures I have seen of the Skyjib so I could be way out. The Skyjib will look more 'Gucci' almost definitely but in my experience the average guy on set just sees a seriously cool bit of kit with lots of arms and props on it so doesnt really care if its a Skyjib, Vulcan, Torrot or match sticks almost! I would probably go with the airframe for which you can get the best support for.

Haven flown a few different rigs, the skyjib is by far the better performer in the wind.

 

[Carapau]

Performance in the wind usually has more to do with the electronics than the airframe although I can see how the Skyjib might be better in the wind due to boom profile. I have no experience with a Skyjib x4 so can't compare the two but compared to my Skyjib 8 the Vulcan rocks (I know this is an apples and oranges comparison though).

Rentakill have you flown a Vulcan with similar electronics to the Skyjib?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[teecee]

So Aeronavics claim to be one of only 2 frame builders "certified to fly commercially" for work in the US, particularly film productions. What do people know about this? What is the other company??

 

[Rentakill]

Performance in the wind usually has more to do with the electronics than the airframe although I can see how the Skyjib might be better in the wind due to boom profile. I have no experience with a Skyjib x4 so can't compare the two but compared to my Skyjib 8 the Vulcan rocks (I know this is an apples and oranges comparison though).

Rentakill have you flown a Vulcan with similar electronics to the Skyjib?

Haven't flown the vulcan but looks the goods, I think the industry is only going to get better in time. Giving the commercial pilots better options and support. I'm selling my Z15 mkiii for the gremsy

 

[teecee]

I'm selling my Z15 mkiii for the gremsy

I am placing my order for the Gremsy this week to play with on the holidays. Probably hold on to my Z15-5D3 for a while though. Keep that on the S1000 for backup / smaller jobs / days when we need more coverage etc. In the process of ordering everything in for the Aeronavics X4XL too. Very excited!