Pixhawk Feedback?

R_Lefebvre

Arducopter Developer
It's not a "new internet" language thing. ;) One thing this project has done is expose me to lots of people from other countries. Especially Australians... I'll be calling all my friends Mate pretty soon. I think chuffed is British. ;)
 

R_Lefebvre

Arducopter Developer
Any Pixhawk news on Multirotors?????

Mine has been sitting a while and maybe time to spend some more time with it......

No news from me. I posted a video from two weeks ago using spline nav. There are plenty of other people flying multis with it though, just not posting here.
 

jdennings

Member
Good. :)

Flew 2 tanks today, over 20 minutes each. I have it totally dialed in now. I accidentally hit 108 km/h just tooling around. :highly_amused: Have to recalibrate my brain to the scale of this thing to judge speed.

Vibrations are quite low:

attachment.php


That's actually very surprising. Better than both of my quads.

Will start working on auto missions now. And I'd like to start doing payload tests. But I need to come up with a solid mounting method.

Your accx vibrations are quite impressive. Interesting that on the y axis they seem to be be several times larger. Is that a typical heli thing?

On another note, auto-tune that baby? :)
 

R_Lefebvre

Arducopter Developer
Yes, it's very common for helis. It's because the moment of inertia in the X (along the boom) axis is quite a bit higher than the Y. The Rate PIDS always end up quite asymmetric for similar reasons.

No autotune for tradheli unfortunately. But I can usually tune them up in about 30 minutes or so. On this one, I guessed at the PIDS based on my 600 electric and had it flyable right from the start, so I'm getting better.

I suffered a crash yesterday after almost two hours of total flight time. Post crash analysis determined that the battery on the GPS vibrated loose. I took a lot of care to vibration damp the Pixhawk, but neglected the GPS puck. Once the battery was loose, it probably shorted some things inside the GPS circuit board. Whatever it did, it borked the Arducopter process in the Pixhawk, which led to loss of control. So obviously the root cause was the mechanical failure of the GPS puck. This was my fault as it was hard mounted to a frame with extreme vibrations. And it should be clear, that the Pixhawk can handle the simple loss of the GPS/Mag. But the battery bouncing around in there would have caused it to short out some things. We'll be looking at the WAY that it failed, and try to get it to perform better. We know that 3.9 seconds before the crash, the IMU logging process slowed from 50Hz to 15Hz. It could be that the battery shorted the 5V bus, taking down the 3.3V, and the MPU6k reset and defaulted to a slower speed. Trying to protect for this sort of thing starts to get a bit insane, but we try.
 

jdennings

Member
Bummer about your crash. I've had something similar happen to me (loosening GPS battery) on an unprotected GPS board, but was lucky enough to see it before flying. Hot glue took care of that in my case. Never bothered to open up the ones in puck to do preventively something similar, hmm ...

> We know that 3.9 seconds before the crash, the IMU logging process slowed from 50Hz to 15Hz. It could be that the battery shorted the 5V bus, taking down the 3.3V, and the MPU6k reset and defaulted to a slower speed.

That's what I love about Ardupilot, second to none as far as I know when it comes to flight analysis (and redundancy). You may crash, but sooner or later you're going to know what happened ... Hope the damage is not too extensive ...
 

JoeBob

Elevation via Flatulation
I worried about GPS vibrations and asked about it here:
http://ardupilot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=9579
Being attached to a rigid mast probably amplifies frame vibration at the puck.

So I got the longer 6 to 6 cable from 3DR and added a half inch of minicell foam:
attachment.php


So far, so good. Buy not a lot of air time. Yet.
 

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Old Man

Active Member
The uBlox GPS puck on my X-8 is mounted on the folding mast provided by 3dR. The mast is a little shorter than the after market stuff made for DJI products. The wire is affixed pretty snug, zip tied top and bottom of the mast. Roughly 70 flights and no problems. I have very little airframe vibration though. Balancing propellers goes a very long ways towards minimizing vibration.
 

Quinton

Active Member
Took the plunge on the Pixhawk today, however there was no masts in stock, but I will just get to grips with it for a while.
Looking forward to the learning curve, also bought a fixed wing aircraft to try and learn that at the same time.
I ordered a few 6S 90A power modules from China a few weeks ago which also came today, so if anyone in the UK would like to get one without the wait send me a PM, I have 2 extra.
 

Bartman

Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
glad to see more people around here are giving it a try. all indications are it's very capable, maybe by having a more experienced user base here at the site we can figure out the key tweaks to get it working perfectly for more people.

bart
 

jfro

Aerial Fun
Everytime I think about putting my Pixhawk on my larger quad, I forget about it because of the extra work needed for 6s batteries. Other than using 5v to the Pixhawk on the RC port, is their a simple plug and play solution? I read this http://pixhawk.org/users/tutorials/pixhawk_6s_mod and I go, I'll leave it on my 4s based quad... Lazy I guess.

Oldman, and others are posting enough good news, and I'm having decent results with my little test Pixhawk quad, that it is getting time to move on up. Just need the power module that I can buy, not build for 6s that is reliable. Sometimes I just get lazy. Maybe a winter project.
 

jdennings

Member
To my knowledge you still can't buy a Pixhawk plug and play power module replacement for 6s. The best you can do is buy one with pico molex connectors, and cut, replace and resolder the wires with df13 connectors from the one you got with your Pixhawk. Takes 15 minutes all said and done, (if you do end up doing this be sure to replace wires one at a time to guarantee correct order) but if you don't want to mess around with that you are stuck.

This sucks, and I don't understand why 3DR is not offering a 6S compatible module by now. Seems like they are too busy with Iris and competing with the Phantom, and/or don't care about that part of the market and realize existing opportunities for higher end users. 3DR's origins in DIY and low end copters must certainly have something to do with this too.
 

R_Lefebvre

Arducopter Developer
I worried about GPS vibrations and asked about it here:
http://ardupilot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=9579
Being attached to a rigid mast probably amplifies frame vibration at the puck.

So I got the longer 6 to 6 cable from 3DR and added a half inch of minicell foam:

I don't actually think that foam will help that much. It would take something more sophisticated than that to make it vibe free. And fact is, that no matter how minimal the vibrations are, it's just a matter of *when* not if that battery falls off. It's a mass, held only by two thin strips of metal. It will fatigue eventually. Maybe it will take a 100 years, but maybe less. I will be gluing all of mine in the future, and recommend everybody else does too. It's just good insurance. It should have been glued at the factory, IMO. And it might be in the future.

There is also a battery on the Pixhawk that should receive the same treatment.
 


R_Lefebvre

Arducopter Developer
To my knowledge you still can't buy a Pixhawk plug and play power module replacement for 6s. The best you can do is buy one with pico molex connectors, and cut, replace and resolder the wires with df13 connectors from the one you got with your Pixhawk. Takes 15 minutes all said and done, (if you do end up doing this be sure to replace wires one at a time to guarantee correct order) but if you don't want to mess around with that you are stuck.

This sucks, and I don't understand why 3DR is not offering a 6S compatible module by now. Seems like they are too busy with Iris and competing with the Phantom, and/or don't care about that part of the market and realize existing opportunities for higher end users. 3DR's origins in DIY and low end copters must certainly have something to do with this too.

Yes, it is surprising to me too. I know they have worked on an HV solution, but just haven't brought it to market. They are definitely focused more on the Iris-type systems, as they are high volume. Though after bringing Colin Guinn onboard, I would have thought he'd want to make an S1000 killer but... I dunno. It took them 2 years to bring the Iris to market, so maybe they don't have the engineering resources to take on a more serious project like that. <cough cough>

There is a HV Power Module available from Hobby King, but I don't recommend it for serious applications. I've seen some reliability testing that is seriously not good.
 

Quinton

Active Member
I don't actually think that foam will help that much. It would take something more sophisticated than that to make it vibe free. And fact is, that no matter how minimal the vibrations are, it's just a matter of *when* not if that battery falls off. It's a mass, held only by two thin strips of metal. It will fatigue eventually. Maybe it will take a 100 years, but maybe less. I will be gluing all of mine in the future, and recommend everybody else does too. It's just good insurance. It should have been glued at the factory, IMO. And it might be in the future.

There is also a battery on the Pixhawk that should receive the same treatment.

Well hardware failures will always happen, but as long as we know about them beforehand, it is certainly a great help, thanks for sharing.
Got this link on these forums, cant rem who shared it, which is a brilliant first video for the pixhawk setup, (OK Its not pixhawk, but hopefully it will be quite similar) all we need now is the other 7 to be finished.

http://youtu.be/30cCs4aHdB0?list=UUp1vASX-fg959vRc1xowqpw

 
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JoeBob

Elevation via Flatulation
I don't actually think that foam will help that much. I will be gluing all of mine in the future, and recommend everybody else does too.
There is also a battery on the Pixhawk that should receive the same treatment.

Thanks for the feedback. Silicon, hot-glue, or liquid tape?
 

R_Lefebvre

Arducopter Developer
I'm not sure yet. Hot glue is the easy option, and will probably work, although I'm not sure I'd trust it's adhesion in the case of a gasser heli. I have also recently learned that using hot glue to "pot" a circuit board is not a good idea, as it shrinks as it cools and can actually harm surface-mount components. Probably not a problem with this battery. But I will be looking for the right product as I will probably pot the entire GPS board in this application. Including the edges of the patch antenna to be sure. But I need to consult some people on that. But in an extreme application like this, extreme measures are justified. :)

Even just a small dab of CA might work for the battery.

I do tend to hot-glue in many of my connectors though. You'll often see a dollop on most of my servo connectors, etc. It's just a good practice.
 

Quinton

Active Member
I'm not sure yet. Hot glue is the easy option, and will probably work, although I'm not sure I'd trust it's adhesion in the case of a gasser heli. I have also recently learned that using hot glue to "pot" a circuit board is not a good idea, as it shrinks as it cools and can actually harm surface-mount components. Probably not a problem with this battery. But I will be looking for the right product as I will probably pot the entire GPS board in this application. Including the edges of the patch antenna to be sure. But I need to consult some people on that. But in an extreme application like this, extreme measures are justified. :)

Even just a small dab of CA might work for the battery.

I do tend to hot-glue in many of my connectors though. You'll often see a dollop on most of my servo connectors, etc. It's just a good practice.

I take notes when I come across new stuff, and you may want to read up on RTV3140, not sure if it would be a good alternative..

http://www.multirotorforums.com/showthread.php?20144-A2-FC-Firmware-2-3-Here-We-ALL-go-Again/page6
 

Av8Chuck

Member
Well hardware failures will always happen, but as long as we know about them beforehand, it is certainly a great help, thanks for sharing.
Got this link on these forums, cant rem who shared it, which is a brilliant first video for the pixhawk setup, (OK Its not pixhawk, but hopefully it will be quite similar) all we need now is the other 7 to be finished.

http://youtu.be/30cCs4aHdB0?list=UUp1vASX-fg959vRc1xowqpw



That's a great resource, takes a bit of the mystery out of setting up the APM [which I imagine is very similar to the Pixhawk] setup.

Thanks for sharing
 
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