Noob TX question...please be gentle!

[Motopreserve]

Colorado in a 4x4 sounds like a lot more fun

i think I just had a breakthrough with the eCalc. Found a thread somewhere explaining a good way to "fish" for better results. I was not far off - but it definitely helped lead me down a more solid path. Or at least it seems so.

I am am getting a "final" list together and will post it in a separate thread for opinions and clarification. Hoping the collective wisdom can help me enjoy Black Friday for the first time ever!

mike. I definitely think failsafe is a good thing - especially for beginners like us. I've been following the thread about some stumbling blocks with programming it. But it seems a worthwhile hurdle to get over.

 

[gtranquilla]

As Kloner says.... buy the Futaba T8FG Super....... and if you have an opportunity to buy it without the R6208SB....... buy instead.... the Frysky TFR8SB 8 channel receiver for much less cost as it is 100% equivalent to the one provided by Futaba. And should you ever decide to move up to the DJI A2.... keep in mind that it has a built-in Receiver that is 100% compatible with the Futaba T8FG and can take advantage of all the additional channels inherent to the T8FG. Be careful not to mount and FPV monitor off of the neck strap post however..... it looks good but it is not rugged enough for the extra weight..... there are other options that are more rugged. see photo of the wrong way!

Also.... if you think you will progress up to larger MRs in the not too distant future...... don't buy spare LiPos as you will soon need to switch up from 3 to 4 to 5 to 6S batteries to handle the higher torque/lower rpm motors. It is so hard to sell used batteries no matter how infrequently they have been used.View attachment 14839

In doing research for my very first quad build, I understand that the transmitter is possibly one investment that could be long-term, if you do your homework and dedicate a decent budget to it. I would love to buy a good TX that I can use for quite some time, regardless of where this hobby may lead me.

The problem for a noob then becomes which brand/model to choose. While I understand this question can raise a bunch of Ford vs Chevy feedback (or god forbid a "which oil is best" debate!), There are some questions that I have about specific models (can this possibly stay on topic???) :dread:

In reading this THREAD, I shifted from leaning Spektrum to considering Futaba again. It seems that along with history of quality, Futaba may be geared a little better toward the multirotor market (???). I did research on the Spektrum DX9 ($400 TX only), which was appealing because it had all the features it seemed I'd need (enough channels to grow, current freq band, DSM2 & DSMX etc), and some that just seemed helpful (the voice feature seems like it could help the inexperienced if built in telemetry is set up correctly).

It's very new, so there is not a ton of DX9 info out there yet. The 2 Futaba models I find straddle the DX9 price point, the 8J (under $300) and the 8FGH ($450 +/-). Both the Futabas come with RX, but I am not sure whether they are of the quality needed to start out - or whether that would have to be an immediate upgrade. The DX9 might need something like an AR8000?

My question would be: What is the best choice/value for: quad, approximate $500 budget (w/RX), RTH, fail safe, telemetry warnings (?), eventual GoPro set-up, MAYBE FPV at some point, and who knows what else???

I know that either choice will put a smile on my face once I begin to fly. But at this point, if I can hone in on a wise choice for what I need (and WILL need), I'd feel better about the purchase. I'd like to hear opinions on the pros and cons of these 2 (or 3) choices. And then I can make a good decision for my specific build/needs.

Thanks in advance.

Scott

 

[Motopreserve]

Thanks for the tips. Unfortunately (or fortunately!) I already pulled the trigger on the 14SGH. It was not on my radar until I started doing more research into Futaba products. And then it seemed to jump off the page at me!

Good point about the batteries. I wouldn't feel comfortable about buying used.

I was reading in one of Bart's threads about his preference for the Nano-Tech batteries. I looked them up - and they all list a wide range between their continuous and burst C ratings. Wasn't sure how that would effect my choice of ESC and motor (there is no choice for this on the eCalc program). Any advice? I had only been looking at the Turnigy and Zippy (I can't BELIEVE they didn't coin them "Lippy - an annoying but obvious no-brainer) blue versions.

I'm hoping for some feedback on my parts list in the beginner's section - including this battery quandary.

 

[gtranquilla]

Your RC radio choice looks favorable to me. Bart is correct re: Nanotech batteries - 1st or 2nd best available on the market at this time.
eCalc for Multirotor allows you to specifically select battery C rating, number of cells, maH capacity etc. but not the option to select according to manufacturer.
Likewise if you choose a motor or prop that is not listed by manufacturer you still have the option to enter specific parameters to get close to the result you are looking for.
Don' be scared to donate to help support eCalc.....
Ignore burst rating and focus on the lefthand side of the battery rating.... batteries for MRs need to be at least 35C minimum.
Do a search on this forum for "How to be a battery Ninja" for some excellent info on this important topic.

Because so many newbies don't know exactly which batteries they should buy initially, there are a lot of abandoned LiPos just sitting around with only a few used cycles and hard to sell.
A wise bargain hunter can still get an excellent deal on used LiPos if he is careful..... as you can't determine the number of cycles, you still have the option to have the seller provide you with:
1) the internal resistance values of each cell
2) the voltage levels of each cell (all must be within 0.02 volts)
3) total battery pack voltage needs to be at 50 to 60% of full capacity when stored for more than 12 hours
Ask seller to provide above data at time of shipment. Then take note of any volt drift immediately upon receipt of the batteries.

Thanks for the tips. Unfortunately (or fortunately!) I already pulled the trigger on the 14SGH. It was not on my radar until I started doing more research into Futaba products. And then it seemed to jump off the page at me!

Good point about the batteries. I wouldn't feel comfortable about buying used.

I was reading in one of Bart's threads about his preference for the Nano-Tech batteries. I looked them up - and they all list a wide range between their continuous and burst C ratings. Wasn't sure how that would effect my choice of ESC and motor (there is no choice for this on the eCalc program). Any advice? I had only been looking at the Turnigy and Zippy (I can't BELIEVE they didn't coin them "Lippy - an annoying but obvious no-brainer) blue versions.

I'm hoping for some feedback on my parts list in the beginner's section - including this battery quandary.

 

[Motopreserve]

Thanks once again! I read through the whole "battery ninja" thread a couple days ago - sadly, I think I'm far from earning my odd-looking headdress and sword

I checked out the nano-tech and plugged in the info like you said. The problem is resistance is not stated on the web site for these batteries, which the program needs. I had to base it off the previous generic choice for the constant C rating. I think the eCalc doesn't like the nano in my build based on the weight it adds. Nano-tech seems significantly heavier - at least based on the stated weight on the HobbyKing site. Also, choosing the lighter 2S versions (although they do have 3S as well) seemed to make the program unhappy.

In terms of the eCalc program, so far the best additional payload, flight times and efficiency has been with the component list I posted HERE. Do you think that I should relax/ignore the battery config section of eCalc to include the nano-tech?

Despite the frustrations I have had making a a list of products fit nicely into the eCalc - I will be donating for sure! It's a ingenious tool for getting you at least in the ballpark.

ESC: I am leaning toward the blue F-30A because it seems that they are easier to flash with what seems the preferred SimonK firmware (donations also apply). Make sense over the multistar?

 

[gtranquilla]

There are many Youtube videos on how to do SimonK firmware updates to the Turnigy Multistar Opto ESCs..... you just have to buy the kit and download the free software/firmware.
eCalc does not accomodate the new and more efficient pancake style motors and the matched carbon fiber paddle propellers that are most highly recommended.
Mounting the paddle props directly on to these motors makes motor and prop balancing much simpler. These props/motors are also very quiet.
Consequently your will get a bit more airtime than eCalc predicts. Wss not aware that resistance is not stated...... But I measured my Nanotechs and it was very low even after many flights/cycles.
I don't recall ever entering that data into eCalc. And my results indicated 12.6 minute flight times for an 800mm custom Hex c/w 2 axis BGC and Hero GoPro3 Black whereas I was able to get more than 15 minutes in hover mode.

Thanks once again! I read through the whole "battery ninja" thread a couple days ago - sadly, I think I'm far from earning my odd-looking headdress and sword

I checked out the nano-tech and plugged in the info like you said. The problem is resistance is not stated on the web site for these batteries, which the program needs. I had to base it off the previous generic choice for the constant C rating. I think the eCalc doesn't like the nano in my build based on the weight it adds. Nano-tech seems significantly heavier - at least based on the stated weight on the HobbyKing site. Also, choosing the lighter 2S versions (although they do have 3S as well) seemed to make the program unhappy.

In terms of the eCalc program, so far the best additional payload, flight times and efficiency has been with the component list I posted HERE. Do you think that I should relax/ignore the battery config section of eCalc to include the nano-tech?

Despite the frustrations I have had making a a list of products fit nicely into the eCalc - I will be donating for sure! It's a ingenious tool for getting you at least in the ballpark.

ESC: I am leaning toward the blue F-30A because it seems that they are easier to flash with what seems the preferred SimonK firmware (donations also apply). Make sense over the multistar?

 

[Motopreserve]

Appreciate all the help!

If you are trying to plug in "custom" info for the controllers you need resistance, or else it will not finish the calculation. It shoots a red warning at you asking for the missing info. I first chose a generic 35C controller, and then swapped over to the custom setting - leaving the prior resistance as the baseline. Hopefully that was kosher.

I've watched a couple of the youtube videos. Turns out none of the multistar Opto choices are avai;able from HobbyKing in the USA. Trying to keep my order to the USA warehouse if possible. Would you say they are a superior ESC? Worth waiting for a shipment or paying a bit more for (eBay is pricey)?

Can you please give me some examples of the "pancake" motors you are talking about? I have been looking at all the usual suspects, and have probably seen them, just didn't know what I was looking for...

Also, any propeller brands you are sweet on? I thought as a noob it was best to start with something cheap for eventual catastrophe - as long as they will lift the thing off the ground to even get me to the catastrophe!

 

[gtranquilla]

Laws of Physics favor the pancake style motor for weight efficiency when it comes to increasing torque. Here is one that I use a lot.... http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/..._4830_420Kv_22Pole_Multi_Rotor_Outrunner.html I have 15 of these and no issues so far.
Paddle style props have 3 holes... use outer two for mounting directly to pancake style motors....eliminates the spinning top vibration issues from your balancing efforts.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...acopters_1_pair_of_L_H_and_R_H_rotation_.html

Since I live in Canada, I buy exclusively from HobbyKing International warehouse because I not only get items faster, but also cheaper since there is no parcel extortion that always seems to happen when we have items shipped from US into Canada via UPS and some other courier services. Apparently the couriers have found a way to undermine the US/Canada "FREE TRADE DEAL".....

Appreciate all the help!

If you are trying to plug in "custom" info for the controllers you need resistance, or else it will not finish the calculation. It shoots a red warning at you asking for the missing info. I first chose a generic 35C controller, and then swapped over to the custom setting - leaving the prior resistance as the baseline. Hopefully that was kosher.

I've watched a couple of the youtube videos. Turns out none of the multistar Opto choices are avai;able from HobbyKing in the USA. Trying to keep my order to the USA warehouse if possible. Would you say they are a superior ESC? Worth waiting for a shipment or paying a bit more for (eBay is pricey)?

Can you please give me some examples of the "pancake" motors you are talking about? I have been looking at all the usual suspects, and have probably seen them, just didn't know what I was looking for...

Also, any propeller brands you are sweet on? I thought as a noob it was best to start with something cheap for eventual catastrophe - as long as they will lift the thing off the ground to even get me to the catastrophe!

 

[Motopreserve]

Thanks for the clarification. I had indeed looked at those motors when I first started shopping for parts. Pretty sure they weren't available locally, or may have only been low Kv. Those props look a dream, but a little pricey for testing my first build I'm afraid. I'd really like this to be a live practice-run at building, and then fabricate my next frame (hex) in my shop, and utilize the finer parts available on that next one. The first build being a learning process which will hopefully build skills, confidence and creativity.

i really appreciate all your help. I think I'm about ready to order - waiting to see if any sales pop up with Black Friday - and then it's into the trenches for the build.

I hear you on the canada/US hassles. I've had to cross the border many times for band related touring. And while I would understand border agents (both directions) sniffing out the stereotypical sex, drugs and rock n roll shenanigans, it seems they're always more concerned with the 48 pages of paperwork in triplicate determining whether we've purchased a pack of guitar strings without paying the quadruple tax! Infuriating.