New Tarot Fy680 Pro build - Advice needed

[ptaylor999]

Hi everyone.

I was hoping to get some advice from some of you more experienced builders out there on a build I am about to commence. The parts list along with prices and links are listed below.

I have been flying an F450 ARF copter for the past few months but want to do a build of my own. The primary purpose of this rig will be Aerial Cinematography. The camera gear, however, will have to come later for economic reasons. My plan is to start with a GoPro and gimbal at first, and them move up to a GH2.

So, my questions to anyone who cares to comment are:
1) What do you think of this proposed build in general? Am I looking at the right parts? Do you see any problems here?
2) Do you think this rig will be able to fly a GH2? Is a FY680 Pro even a good frame to fly this camera?

I have heard various comments, both pro and con, regarding flying a GH2 with this frame. Personally, I think it's possible, but I'm not all that experienced at building, so I'm asking you.

Any comments would be very much appreciated.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Tarot FY680 Pro - Parts List w/prices and links:

Frame: Tarot FY680 Pro - $150.99
http://www.foxtechfpv.com/tarot-680p...er-p-1301.html

Motors: Sunnysky 2814-11 KV 700 - $36.99 x 6 = $221.94
http://www.foxtechfpv.com/sunnysky-2...tor-p-382.html

ESCs: Hobbywing Platinum PRO 30A OPTO ESC(2-6s) - $26.99 x 6 = $161.94
http://www.foxtechfpv.com/hobbywing-...%89-p-945.html

Props: 1260 Carbon Fiber Propeller CW&CCW - $12.40 x = $49.60
http://www.foxtechfpv.com/1260-carbo...ccw-p-522.html

Flight Controller: DJI NAZA-M V2 Full Set - $299.00
http://www.amazon.com/DJI-Naza-M-Mul...words=dji+naza

Tx/Rx - FrSky Taranis 2.4GHz ACCST Radio & X8R Combo (Mode 2) - $209.99
http://www.getfpv.com/frsky-taranis-...FW5eOgodxBUAYA

Batteries: Storm 14.8V 5500mAh 35C LiPo Battery Pack - $89.90 x 2 = $179.80
http://www.helipal.com/storm-14-8v-5...tery-pack.html

Battery Charger: SKYRC E4 2S-4S Li-Po / Li-Fe Battery Charger - $25.90
http://www.helipal.com/skyrc-e4-3s-4...y-charger.html


TOTAL: $1154.36
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[Motopreserve]

I'm just about done building the same hex.

You don't list where you're located (go put that in your profile right now!) but if you're in the states, all of the parts can be obtained domestically. Nice to keep these guys going and basically comes out in the wash when you factor in shipping from multiple vendors in china.

If you hope to haul a GH3 then I'd suggest looking into the lower Kv motors (I have the SS 3408-20 580kv and I think they make them even lower). Even with that, might be a stretch in its stock form. Many people are extending the arms a bit to allow for larger props. If you're starting with a gopro/smaller cam, you can wait on that anyway.

You might want to start with some composite props like APC. Just to get the hang of the hex and testing done first with cheaper props.

 

[ptaylor999]

I'm just about done building the same hex.

You don't list where you're located (go put that in your profile right now!) but if you're in the states, all of the parts can be obtained domestically. Nice to keep these guys going and basically comes out in the wash when you factor in shipping from multiple vendors in china.

If you hope to haul a GH3 then I'd suggest looking into the lower Kv motors (I have the SS 3408-20 580kv and I think they make them even lower). Even with that, might be a stretch in its stock form. Many people are extending the arms a bit to allow for larger props. If you're starting with a gopro/smaller cam, you can wait on that anyway.

You might want to start with some composite props like APC. Just to get the hang of the hex and testing done first with cheaper props.

Awesome advice, and thanks for giving it.

I'm in Pennsylvania. I'll update my profile ASAP.

I would like nothing more than to buy everything domestically, but I'm having a hard time locating some of the items here in the states, plus the prices here are a bit more. Though, I'm sure you're correct when you say that it will all come out in the wash given the lower shipping rates. Think post a list of some good US distributors on this thread? and I'll have a look.

Yes, I was looking into the lower KV motors and bigger props, but I think I'll move into them a bit later, after I have a go at the GoPro. Can't with til June, when the new GoPro Hero 4 is supposed to come out. 4K baby! .. on a teeeeny sensor. We'll see how that susses out.

And I too have seen that some folks are extending their booms to allow for longer props. I might go down that road in the future as well. I just wonder is a longer boom at the same diameter might be getting a bit weak at that point.

As for the props - I was already thinking of doing what you suggest here. Good idea.


Thanks again.

 

[Motopreserve]

I got my frame and a couple extra parts at CNCheli.

The taranis you found already - but I started a thread earlier today that lists a bunch of US Frsky vendors. Make sure you get it from some place that has the case (for $15). I wish I had.

Rangevideo.com also has tarot.

The sunnysky motors, props and good battery chargers can be found at BuddyRC.

ESCs can be found at HobbyPartz.com

The Naza you can find everywhere - and probably some place that you get other things to combine shipping.

I get props from gotheli

i have been happy with the batteries from readymadeRC. I think they're cheaper than the ones you listed. Also, nano tech from US hobby king are popular.

 

[mailman35]

yeah the charger you have leaves alot to be desired. no lcd status displays to show cell charges,etc.
in the past ive had good luck with lipo's from hobbyking, havent brought anything MR related since 2012 though.

 

[ptaylor999]

Thanks for all the advice you guys. Great info! Sorry I haven't been responsive lately but I got a gig that's been keeping me pretty busy. But that's winding down now and I am, finally, about ready to pull the trigger on making these purchases. But, of course, I have a couple more questions.

Mailman, seems like we're located in the same neck of the woods. You are right - that charger is poop. I've doing a bit of studying on batts and chargers and power supplies and WOW, it's one of the more expensive aspects of this hobby, and I feel I need an electrical engineering degree!

Any advice on a decent balance charger? I'd like to keep the $$ down as much as possible, but I don't want crap. And how bout a power supply? From what I've read, an AC/DC charger is possible, but I'd like to be able to charge my batts as a somewhat decent rate, so that I can go flying more than once a day. Unfortunately this means getting a DC charger and a power supply. ($$$!) I'm open to either and would love some advice. Just how long would it take to charge a 5000mah 4S with an AC/DC charger compared to a decent DC only charger?

And about the batts themselves - I've trying to find a 4S 6000mah battery with at least 35C, but am only finding the 25c variety (HobbyKing US) for under $100. How much of a difference would I see with 25c vs 35c? Would I even notice it?

And one more question, I'll be starting with a goPro, but would like to eventually fly a GH2. I've been hearing about folks extending the arms of this frame to allow for bigger props (thanks for clueing me in to this, Motopreserve!). Just how is that done? Is it just buying longer booms? or are there extensions? This is definitely something I'll be looking into further. What are the max size props I can use with the 680Pro? Or would just make more sense to look into something like the Tarot 810 or 960, and then transfer all my electronics to that?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[Motopreserve]

As far as extending the booms, you can buy the best/cheapest 16mm carbon tube and cut it to length, and fit the end pieces. There are some booms for other tarot MRs you can buy instead - but that's more expensive. The max prop for the stock 680pro is 13".

I finally bought a decent charger/PS. I've been very happy with it. It's an iCharger and can be found at buddyrc. It's a pricey part of the hobby, but it's what makes the MR go. Then there's figuring out how to power the charger in the field.... I haven't gotten there yet

batteries for MR don't actually have to be super high discharge rate - so the 25C is fine. It will limit the speed at which you can charge - but you probably don't want to charge too quickly anyway. Any 20-25C battery should allow you to charge plenty fast, and will be able to discharge fast enough for what you need (unless you're into aggressive ACRO flying).

 

[ptaylor999]

Thanks very much for the info, Moto. I've decided on an iCharger as well (see new list below). It gets great reviews, is local (US), and the company that sells it (BuddyRC) has a good rep.

I'm thinking that once I get into a bigger camera (GH2) I can, hopefully, just move all my electronics over to a larger frame and bump up the size of the props. Might need new, lower KV motors as well, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Right now, I just want to get flying, and learning, and a 680 is the largest rig I'll feel comfortable doing that.

Thanks again for the advice.

 

[ptaylor999]

Updated Parts List

So here's my updated parts list which includes a more realistic choice for a charger (and power supply):
-------------------------------------------

Tarot FY680 Pro - Parts List w/prices and links:

Frame:
Tarot FY680 Pro - $150.99
http://www.foxtechfpv.com/tarot-680pro-cf-folding-hexacopter-p-1301.html

Motors:
SunnySky V3508-20 KV580 Brushless Motor - $37.95 x 6 = $227.70
http://www.buddyrc.com/sunnysky-v3508-20-580kv.html

ESCs:
DYS SimonK Program 30A Multirotor ESC - $14.95 x 6 = $89.70
http://www.buddyrc.com/dys-simon-k-program-30a-multirotor-esc.html

Props:
Gemfan 12x4.5 Nylon Prop Set (1x CW & 1x CCW) BLACK - $3.69 x 4 = $14.76
http://www.altitudehobbies.com/gemf...ticopter-propeller-set-1x-cw-and-1x-ccw-black

Flight Controller:
DJI NAZA-M V2 Full Set - $299.00
http://www.amazon.com/DJI-Naza-M-Mu...=UTF8&qid=1398694006&sr=8-2&keywords=dji+naza

Tx/Rx: (Already Have)
Frsky TARANIS 2.4GHz R/C system version B, latest production (w/case) - $214.99
http://www.rangevideo.com/en/radios...ottle_stick_left/combos-x8r_receiver_included

Batteries:
Turnigy nano-tech 6000mah 4S 25~50C Lipo Pack (US Warehouse) - $55.75 x 2 = $111.25
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor...000mah_4S_25_50C_Lipo_Pack_US_Warehouse_.html

Battery Charger:
iCharger 206B 300W 20A 6S Balance Charger - $124.95
http://www.buddyrc.com/icharger-206b.html

Power Supply:
Modified Mean Well NES-350-15 350W 15V 23.2A Power Supply - $69.95
http://www.buddyrc.com/modified-mean-well-nes-350-15.html



TOTAL: $1089.26
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Questions:

What other miscellaneous parts will I need? I'm talking about things like heat shrink, extra wire, connectors, prop adapters, etc.

The props are only nylon at this point, as I want to both do some learning with inexpensive props, as well as try out some different sizes. Will move to carbon fiber later. Is this a good move? Don't want to risk my rig!

 

[Motopreserve]

I would look for some APC or HQProps. Little more - but much better quality. Also MUCH easier to balance. Make sure you get a prop balancer (was that in the list???).

Pick a a connector you'll use for your batteries/PDB. Most popular choices seem to be XT-60/90, Deans or Anderson Powerpole. I just switched to Anderson and like them.

Youll need all all the things you mentioned, and a good soldering iron. A heat gun is helpful - but a powerful hair dryer works. Helping hands are...well, helpful

Try to look around for some same/similar alternatives that could save you in shipping (example:range video I think sells tarot, buddyRC sells props, HK USA warehouse sells plenty of appropriate ESCs). You might be able to avoid China all together - and save some cash in the end.

 

[juniperific]

I've just built something pretty similar, but I'm finding myself disappointed by a couple of things. I've been flying with a 3S 11.1V 5000mAh battery and I don't seem to get three minutes in the air before the Naza insists I land and replace it, which seems pretty weak.

Under my drone I've got the battery holder* and a DJI H2D2 gimbal / Go-Pro, so it's not light.

I have had a couple of surprise crashes though; first in pretty normal flight some distance above a pebbled beach (Brighton UK), ever since which it has flown pretty erratically, leading to crashes. It just keeps spinning right and drifting as if it wasn't calibrated, but re-calibration didn't fix it.

I'm guessing it's also been vibrating a bit as one of the motors came unscrewed in flight and it plummeted, so I figure balancing the props might be a good move – I'll order a balancer – but I don't think that's what was causing the rotation. Any thoughts?

Here it is after my latest repairs and before.

View attachment 18423View attachment 18424

By the way something to watch out for (I didn't first time) is, if you're going as Tarot suggest and putting the ESCs beneath the motors, then be very careful about your cable-ties. I think I had one rubbing against a motor as it turned.

 

[Motopreserve]

I think you'll have to take a look at balance for both props and motors. Once you get your prop balancer - make it a point to never install an unbalanced prop. Everything will be smoother because of it, and it helps narrow down causes without pulling your hair out. What props are those??? Are they plastic? You really are going to want some decent props - for easier balancing and so they don't come apart in the air (happens, I've seen the photos!).

If you had a pretty serious crash (pebble beach can't be soft!), check the level of the motors in relation to the flight controller, to ensure the motors/FC don't have to fight to keep the craft level. The booms or motor mounts could have turned a bit in the crash.

Im assuming since you have a H3-2D that you have a DJI controller? Make sure the GPS arrow is pointed straight ahead.

Also, I think for a heavy MR like this you'll probably want to head up to 4S batteries - or if your ESCs can handle it, 6S.

Good luck.

 

[juniperific]

Yes, all DJI and all pointing forward / correctly set up.

My plan was to use plastic props until I was more sure of flying it. Luckily I have a full unused set which, I suppose is a close to balanced as I can get for now.

I've been round the frame and tightened up a lot of the screws, which in just 10 flights or so seem to have gone a bit loose. A couple had fallen out. That will hopefully fix any unevenness too, so we'll see if that does it.

Landing legs are a bit damaged; presumably that's not helping since they weight won't be even? But there's not a lot in it.

The ESCs are 30A and the motors are SunnySky X2212-13 KV: 980 II s – Reckon a 4S would be alright?

(The battery plate's plastic supports didn't survive the crash either, so I've had to just strap the battery in the gap between the undercarriage - still better that than the gimbal /go pro (yes, a H3-2D)).

 

[Motopreserve]

Those motors are not rated for 4S. So you'll have to stick to the 3S. Those motors are higher Kv than I've seen on these 680's - so I'm not sure what type of performance you should be able to expect.

What size props are they??? If your rig is heavy - you might be stressing the motors a bit.

Tightening up up all the screws and replacing the missing ones is a must. Also, use some blue loctite on the ones that mate with a metal thread.

 

[juniperific]

OK, well I was already to go test and I thought I'd quickly connect to the computer to make sure the calibration was still good, and [Flash-BANG] horrid electric smell – short circuit(?). A further look at my crash battery and lo-and-behold it too has a melted connector.

I can't immediately see why, though there are a lot of wires hidden inside the arms. I'd like to test one by one.

Any way I can easily test for this issue before connecting my last battery? I don't want to melt it's connector too!

Arrgh - it's all so frustrating - it was flying so well a couple of weeks ago!

View attachment 18428

Oh, props are 10" 4.5s. Thinking that I was sold the wrong motors; what'd be the best I could add without swapping the ESCs?

 

[Motopreserve]

I don't think there's an easy way to test the continuity of the full run (PDB to motor) of wire in the boom unless you can get a multimeter lead into where the motor wires connect to the motor. But you can test the ESC wires though. Put the multimeter on ohms and connect to each end.

Is the battery puffed? Probably safest not to use it, even with fresh connector. Try to take a look inside the power area (between plates) and see if anything is touching?

You our have plenty of options with the motors. Lots of people running the lower Kv SS on these hex's - like 7xx and lower. Not sure about the 3S compatibility though. You'll have to check the specs.

 

[ptaylor999]

Thanks SO MUCH for the advice everyone! Unless I hear different, I'm done with the research now and am about ready to pull the trigger on this build. I've listened to your suggestions and have altered my parts list a bit.

I will be getting these motors now:
SunnySky V3508-29 KV380 Brushless Motor - $37.95 x 6 = $227.70
http://www.buddyrc.com/sunnysky-v3508-29-380kv.html

and these props:
A Pair T Motor Style 13X5.5 Carbon Fiber Props - $17.95 x 4 = $71.98
http://www.buddyrc.com/a-pair-t-motor-style-13x5-5-carbon-fiber-props.html

I'm trying to stay in the US for as many of these purchases as possible, thus the move towards BuddyRC, as suggested by Moto. Thanks Moto! The guys there are awesome. Very informative and willing to discuss this build in detail with me, even though I'm getting some of my parts elsewhere.

The gimbal I'll be using for the GoPro will be:
DYS 3 Smart Gimbal (shipped from Miami)- $191.00
http://www.rangevideo.com/en/gimbals/470-3-axis.html

Anyone had any experience with this gimbal? I'm hearing mostly great things about it and I'm excited to have access to the yaw axis.

2 Questions:

1) One gimbal-related (or general electronics really) question - How do I power this thing? I fear that the 6S battery I'll be flying will be too much, and DYS is suggesting a 3S battery. I'd prefer not to add the weight of a separate battery, so I'm in a bit of a quandary. Any advice here would be great.

2) I keep hearing that mounting the ESCs under the props is a bad idea due to their long distance from the PCB, and I see that many are mounting their ESCs in the center of the aircraft for this reason. Is this really a good idea? Or is this danger being over-played?

Thanks again everyone. I'll be keeping this thread posted on the build, once it commences.

 

[Motopreserve]

1) if you don't want an additional battery - get a step down regulator that can accept the 6S and shoot out a steady 12v. Probably the best option to ensure solid power to the gimbal. I've read of some gimbal tuning being effected by the power when an additional battery voltage dips. THIS is the one I got.

2). That debate rages on and on... I've seen both opinions, either use them as is, or add capacitors. You're going to have to do all the research you can, and then decide for yourself. If you've seen CPO's build videos for this exact frame, he has opted for no capacitors. Others in the 680 build thread have skipped them as well. I can say for sure that the center section is pretty cramped, and I finally mounted mine to the boom just outside the center plates. I'm thinking seriously about putting them out under the mounts for keeping it neater when I swap the ESCs.