Mikrokopter Mk dodeca xl.

smartaquad

Member
Hi!
Im just about to build a Dodecacopter in Hexa Coax configuration. The plan is to lift RED EPIC on a Cinestar gimbal:nevreness:

Anybody been down the path??

Best Regards,

Alex
 

wizprod

Member
Nop, but would like to. However, I think a x8 with larger diameter props and 6s would be more efficient, giving you higher payload capacity or longer flight-duration.
 


I want to do this as well with a cinestar 6 frame. I came up with this mixer setup. Although I think all bottom motors need to be plus or minus 71. Except whats wierd is that mk wki states that 64 is the 100% value, they make no mention if that is 100% of a nominal reference value versus an absolute maximum.

View attachment 11461
MK showed a mixer setup where all bottom motors were Plus or minus 71. I am trying to get more insight on that aspect.
 

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wizprod

Member
I want to do this as well with a cinestar 6 frame. I came up with this mixer setup. Although I think all bottom motors need to be plus or minus 71. Except whats wierd is that mk wki states that 64 is the 100% value, they make no mention if that is 100% of a nominal reference value versus an absolute maximum.

View attachment 14614
MK showed a mixer setup where all bottom motors were Plus or minus 71. I am trying to get more insight on that aspect.

You should change your props instead of doing it with the mixer :)
 

You should change your props instead of doing it with the mixer :)

I am not sure I quite follow you. Don't you need the mixer to give the FC a reference of which motor is doing what? My understanding is that is what the mixer is doing. I admit there is not much info on the topic in the wiki other then explaining if the motor is right of the Y axis you assign a negative value and positive if it is on the left. For tilt you give a positive if the motor is above the X axis and negative below. All counter clockwise motors get a negative value and all clockwise a positive. They explain that the values go from 0 to 64. They say 64 is 100%. But then there is an example where they have 71 as a value for all bottom motors. Is that because this assumes both bottom and top props are the same size and they want the bottoms to have more response than the top, where as if I leave them all at +_64 respectively I make the bottom props smaller so that aerodynamically they are more responsive because of less drag on the motors? If so I had my assumptions wrong. I assumed that the 71 value was factoring in a smaller prop on the bottom. There does not seem to be a lot of insight on this.
 


wizprod

Member
I am not sure I quite follow you. Don't you need the mixer to give the FC a reference of which motor is doing what? My understanding is that is what the mixer is doing. I admit there is not much info on the topic in the wiki other then explaining if the motor is right of the Y axis you assign a negative value and positive if it is on the left. For tilt you give a positive if the motor is above the X axis and negative below. All counter clockwise motors get a negative value and all clockwise a positive. They explain that the values go from 0 to 64. They say 64 is 100%. But then there is an example where they have 71 as a value for all bottom motors. Is that because this assumes both bottom and top props are the same size and they want the bottoms to have more response than the top, where as if I leave them all at +_64 respectively I make the bottom props smaller so that aerodynamically they are more responsive because of less drag on the motors? If so I had my assumptions wrong. I assumed that the 71 value was factoring in a smaller prop on the bottom. There does not seem to be a lot of insight on this.

Of course the mix has to be right. However with a coax setup you also have to choose the right prop combination. Some examples:
- using same size and pitch top and bottom and same mixer value for both, can cause the lower prop to almost freewheel in the top prop's stream. This way it wont contribute much to overall lift.
- rising the mixer value for the lower prop makes it rotate faster, thus providing more lift. However you will also increase the drag, making the prop less efficient.
- the wash from a prop is slightly conical. So compared to the top prop you need a slightly smaller prop below. This way the prop will operate in 1 uniform airspeed across the prop. Operating in more than one airspeed causes the prop to vibrate, and we really dont want that.

So, what do we need...? We need high diameter, low pitch on top, and slightly lower diameter but higher pitch on the lower prop.
Why do we need higher pitch? Because low pitch top, and high pitch below?
Because low pitch is Best for static thrust (like in a hover) and high is Better for air already moving (recieving the wash from the top prop, and accelerate it further)

One thing not mentioned yet is yaw.
As a MR uses torque for rotation. Using higher mixing values can cause unwanted yaw.

End the end though, it's about getting the 2 motors to share the load!

(written from mobile, so there might be some typos ;) )
 

Thanks for the reply. I understand the physics of the MR Coaxial and why you need smaller props on the bottom. I understand the mechanics. If I followed you correctly, then the mixer setup that was shown on the MK wiki where the bottom values are set at 71, then am I to assume this was the preferred setup for a copter that had identical props to and bottom.

Here is the table for a octo coaxial X8 config http://gallery.mikrokopter.de/main.php/v/tech/OctoX_XL_Config.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1. That was my other question they have 71 in for all bottom motors yet it say 64 is the max value. So are these mixer values flawed? I could assume means that it is really 64. That is what I am trying to figure out. Is 64 truly the max value for the mixer, or does putting 71 in there really give you a value of 64?
 

Hi guys!
Long time no speak!
If finished the 12 rotor coax! First flight great!
Only the bats go real quick! 4 min with 8000? Im using 4s batts any tips there?
Best regards!
 



Its basically Mk stock electronics and motors. The frame is custom with 2cm square aluminum tube on a 2x3mm carbon centre plates.( I find alu much more vibration absorbent than cf, but the weight,I know..) shaped in this fasion (+). Im using 1365 CF props with 2x6000x4s batts geting 14:30min with no payload //9-10 min with AV200+CX730 // 7-8 min wit AV200 +5D.
 

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