Manufacturing Drones?

[Hazel1919]

Hello all!

Quick background: We are located in Europe and are prototyping designs for a ready-to-fly Drone/quadcopter. We have the equipment and expertise in this field to manufacture a professional product so we pose the question to you: What do you want to see from us in 2015?


This year we witnessed many crowd funded drone campaigns with all sorts of features and gimmicks. So for 2015 we have set out to make THE BEST, most reliable drone for under < £799.


We want to create a stable aerial photography platform that can carry a wide range of cameras...

Our market is aimed at those who want something more affordable than an "Inspire 1" or "Steadidrone flare" but with similar functionality and that just works.

There seem to be very few 'Prosumer' manufacturers located inside of the EU (Europe) offering complete RTF Drones.

Our product is currently based around the Pixhawk and APM software ecosystem and we have gone to great lengths to tune and program all of the features to work together flawlessly in one professional package.

Here is a preview of the specs:

1Kg Payload
20 minute Flight times – 4000mah 4S battery
Our target price is £799 for a fully ready to fly drone..
Autopilot - Pixhawk + ublox GPS from 3D Robotics
Frame - X650 carbon Fiber
Motors - 710kv
Props – 12" balanced Carbon Fiber
4-in-1 ESC
Turnigy 9XR Radio system (completely set up)

My question to you is this: What features would you like to see in a £799 Drone? Feel free to think outside of the box!


We want to put an emphases on great customer support and documentation. We are in the process of developing our site and are eager to hear your opinions on what you would like to see in 2015!

Here are some pics of our early prototype...

View attachment 22239

Best regards,

Hazel1919

 

[eskil23]

Here is a preview of the specs:

1Kg Payload
20 minute Flight times – 4000mah 4S battery
Our target price is £799 for a fully ready to fly drone..
Autopilot - Pixhawk + ublox GPS from 3D Robotics
Frame - X650 carbon Fiber
Motors - 710kv
Props – 12" balanced Carbon Fiber
4-in-1 ESC
Turnigy 9XR Radio system (completely set up)

I assume the 20 min flight time is without the 1 kg payload.

I don't see any gimbal in the specs. Is that something that will come on top of the £799 for the airframe?

 

[Hazel1919]

Hello eskil23,

Thank you for taking the time to reply! We should have been more clear on that point, you are correct, that flight time is WITHOUT a payload. Our prototype is compatible with any 4S batteries that has an XT60 connector, so with a 6000mah battery we are looking at even better flight times!

As for a Gimbal, we are looking at integrating the DYS Smart3 Gimbal, for GoPro users, at least. The price for this integration has not been finalized and we are still discussing terms with our suppliers.

We are eager to hear more of your valuable opinions and suggestions, please throw them our way!

 

[dazzab]

That's a nice looking prototype. Great to see you are using the Pixhawk for the FC. I would want self tightening props so they are easy to install and remove. It's becoming a crowded market so I'm not sure what you can do to stand out feature wise but best of luck.

 

[SleepyC]

Is that a frame that is already available from other companies? If so, I would ry to design something that is your own.
Also the props you are using are 2 generations back. Go with 3 hole mounts or folding props.
20 min with a go pro gimbal is accessible by pretty much anyone now, if you want to stand out you should be trying for 50 - 60 minutes with a 6S battery and a 300 - 400KV motor and 15 - 18" props.

Just trying to be honest, if that rig came out today, it's already outdated,

 

[Shelipso]

SleepyC is bang on. Added to that, I would also say being portable would be a real differentiator, like what Steadi drone offers. Also, I would love to get some type of optical sensor to complement the gps. People like Steadi drone or Spyder offer something different. Inspire 1 is also trying to offer a differentiation. Otherwise you can get what you are putting together directly from a Chinese web site for a lesser price. Good luck with your development and hopefully you will make something different!

 

[Old Man]

Set up with 6s and 8000mAH, 14" 3 blade folders, two Vtx or a one Vtx with a video switch and OSD dialed into/through the Pixhawk, with motors and ESC's done right flight time should instantly jump to ~49 minutes/ The slow flyer props gotta go.

 

[Hazel1919]

Great responses, this is a real insight for us. Thanks...

Drones in their current state are no where near ideal and we have compiled an incredibly long and detailed list of hardware and software improvements that can and will be made in the coming years. We will do out BEST to implement these amazing ideas. At the same time we want to keep our price levels reasonable and want to make certain that all of the technology that goes into our drones is safe and reliable ultimately putting you the pilot in absolute control.

@dazzab, thanks! We chose the Pixhawk because we believe that 3D Robotics is at the cutting edge of drone tech. Unfortunately it is not always as visible as it should be, but they are building a solid and mature platform and a currently unparalleled software ecosystem and community!

Regarding prop nuts, we use Nylon lock tight nuts which are extremely secure however we are open to self tightening props. Unfortunately there are not many that are compatible with our prototype but we are looking into it.

@SleepyC thanks for this important info. This frame is the 'X650' folding frame. We chose it because it is extremely light and strong. The basic design is not overly complex and performs remarkably well.

One thing that we would like to emphasize is that we 'sand balance' and seal all of our props in house. As stated however, we will definitely look into alternative propeller mounting.

@Shelipso, thanks for the response. Optical flow is very close to full integration with the APM project and this is something that we are eager to include. We want to make sure that the technology is ready and stable therefore we need to carry out more tests.

@Old Man, that would indeed be an incredible machine! We are looking into a 6S power system for future upgrades and are eager to do more tests!

Again, thank you so much for your valuable insights, it no doubt comes from years of experience and we value your comments highly.

 

[DucktileMedia]

Is that prototype not an Xaircraft 650? Looks exactly like it.

If you want to rule the market you will have to do what everyone tries to do and cant.

1. Beat China pricing
2. Make it 99% reliable
3. balance it before slapping a RTF label on it
4. have excellent customer support
5. ease of function layout on the radio
6. have all the basic gps functions
7. prove to people that somehow what you have is not just another drone clone.

It's crazy competitive, i dont really know why anyone would want to get into this market. You are better off coming up with something very unique instead of re inventing the wheel. how about a drone without arms or a different layout? In the end they are all the same. Chinese components that crash. 75% of people want cheap over quality. and that's why DJI wins. They look good and are priced well and have pretty good functionality.

 

[Old Man]

Publish a comprehensive user manual use a language and syntax format appropriate to the language of the country the unit would be sole in. So many manuals lack adequate content and even worse, the language translation loses much of its continuity going from one language to another. In essence, have the manual go through a tech writer in each country the product would be sold and re-write as needed to make the manual coherent.

 

[DucktileMedia]

True but even if the manual was a literary work of art that doesn't prevent the electronics from failure. I think quality control is number 1. There is a serious conflict of interest between QC and volume. So first step is dont have ANYTHING made in China! That decision immediately puts you in the same ranks as every other mass produced piece of sky garbarge out there. You are better off charging more and making the best at this point in the game.

 

[Carapau]

In business it seems that those who make money are either those at the top of the pile or those at the very bottom. It seems to be much harder to be successful if holding the middle ground. There are already plenty of products at the lower end of the market but very few at the top. As the industry grows there is a growing requirement for top quality aircraft so I am 100% with IrisAerial on this.

 

[Old Man]

Why do you think the FAA is setting the stage for air vehicle certification? That "top of the pile, top quality" will be a much loftier position than anyone can imagine, and only those that can pay the price will be allowed in the game. From my perspective this is a case of hoping you don't get what you wish for. You'll probably get it. That flight worthy certified multirotor will probably have a price tag exceeding $100k for the entry level, which won't include the multiple other user requirement costs.

The only military grade stuff that's of high reliability is that handled through satellite communications, and there's only a few of those and all of them large. The rest are not much better than what we in our hands have now.

As for China made products, the problems the multirotor crew is seeing now is one that has been present since RC ARF aircraft started hitting the market 20 years ago. Only enough quality to make something look good enough to catch the eye at a price that undercuts everyone. It's always been this way but the consumer typically only looks at the lowest price. It's the WalMart argument all over again. Until consumers are willing to pay for quality nobody is going to move manufacturing out of China and the surrounding area. The developers will just continue to come up with something new they'll have made in China, with the full understanding they'll only have at most one production run before copies of their work hit the market at a lower price. It's always been that way as well.

 

[Carapau]

Top of the pile dosnet necessarily mean 'airworthy' it just means of the highest quality currently available. Also, a genuinely safe aircraft doesn't necessarily mean $$$$$$$. In the UK under the new safety case system it looks like it will be very possible to build an aircraft that isn't exactly 'airworthy' but one which the CAA deems to be 'suitably safe' for want of a better expression. This won't cost the earth at all but will cost a few $ extra- certainly within the budget of most professional operators.

 

[Hazel1919]

Hey everyone! Sorry for taking so long to get back to you, this information has been invaluable.

@IrisAerial, for this prototype we have used the X650 frame, it is very close to the ideal frame for our design and fits the criteria.

We take safety very seriously and will be putting every one of our Drones through a comprehensive quality control procedure. We test all fail-safes and flight-modes.

Essentially we are NOT a mass production outfit. We take pride in the workmanship that goes into our drones and you can really see that reflected in the product.

@Old Man, a comprehensive manual is of key importance. Documentation is one of the areas that the APM project and Pixhawk could improve in. We have built up a huge knowledge base on the project and will do our best to explain the inns and outs of operating an APM based copter.

For starters our documentation will be published in French and English.

@ Carapau, that is an astute observation. Considering the state of legislation in the EU regarding drones, this will become a defining issue. We want to provide a high quality product that is reliable, at the same time however, the user needs to be educated and supplied with a proper maintenance schedule.

Thanks for the insight guys.

 

[Old Man]

@Old Man, a comprehensive manual is of key importance. Documentation is one of the areas that the APM project and Pixhawk could improve in. We have built up a huge knowledge base on the project and will do our best to explain the inns and outs of operating an APM based copter.

For starters our documentation will be published in French and English.

Thanks for the insight guys.

Really? Have you checked into the user instructions at Arducopter.com? I'll help you out with a link: http://copter.ardupilot.com/wiki/table-of-contents/ Enjoy the lengthy review. You'll spend quite some time at it.

I know when I downloaded and printed out everything in there for multirotors I filled a couple of 2" binders and part of a third. I don't know of ANY other makers of our stuff that publishes 1/10 of that information for their products. Perhaps adding a couple of languages would expand the APM and Pixhawk info and make it easier for people to digest that don't live in the U.S.