Learn to walk before you run

K

kobemrozio

Member
Hi Guys,

I am a hobbyist photographer and filmmaker. I would like to build an octocopter/X8. Before I begin though, allow me to say that I know nothing about RC devices and have no experience flying drones yet. Despite my enthusiasm I know it won’t be easy and it will request knowledge and experience.

I’m thinking to run 2 projects. The questions are:


  • Project A (which cheap RC would you recommend)?
  • Project B (which parts/components would you recommend)?
  • Do you know any UAV Training Workshop?

Project A (Learn stage)
Budget: £1k
Target: gain experience (assembly, learn to fly, troubleshooting)
Hardware: cheap little RC quad

Project B (Main)
Budget: £10k
Hardware:

Platform: range of (CarbonCore Octo 1000mm or Cinestar8)
Motor Type:
Telemetry electronics:
Camera Mount:
Radio Control:
OSD / FPV:
Battery Kit:
Is there anything I'm missing?

Thank you for advice.

Mike
 

maxwelltub

maxwelltub

Member
well for all the people that post here saying they know nothing but want to get into it, I am happy to see you realize the importance of starting slow. I did the same thing a couple years ago and have been loving every it every step of the way, (aside from the frustrating moments that I want to pull all my hair out.) I would recommend that for your first project you start with a DJI 450. It will teach you the basics of soldering, FC "programming" (even though its not really programming), prop balancing and all the little things that you don't know enough to ask about but will figure out as you go. Learn to fly in Alt mode but as soon as you get comfortable learn manual mode. Its really important, many people just skip the the next size rig and will forever be stuck in a type of autopilot and be totally screwed if that system fails. The other option is a 550 which is basically the same thing with 2 more arms, I dont think your really gaining much by going with a hex instead of a quad for your first platform. Its worth checking out the APM2 flight controller, I have never used it but I plan on getting one because it seems like it has way more functionality then the naza and wkm for less money. But I have only read about it. I just switched to a carbon core from and I love it. Cinestar is clearly a industry leader and makes a great product. But I think its more about the gimbal, similar to how a camera is arguably more about the glass. The carbon core is a solid platform and depending on how you build it up, it will lift what you need. Dont by a phantom, dont by a S800. Phantom is a dead end that will teach you nothing more then the cheapo helicopter you can by at radio shack, and the s800 is a catasrophy for many.
 

Benjamin Kenobi

Benjamin Kenobi

Easy? You call that easy?
I totally agree. Get a 450 or 550. Teaches you basic setup and soldering and a nice kit to work on. Good luck!
 

S

stitch1615

Member
Benjamin Kenobi said:
I totally agree. Get a 450 or 550. Teaches you basic setup and soldering and a nice kit to work on. Good luck!
Click to expand...


As for flying, get a cheap and durable Blade MQX and fly the hell out of it.
By the time you get your new 450/550 built, you will have a far better chance of flying survival.
 

P

ProPilotWannaBe

Member
I would agree with Ben and Maxwell. The F450 and F550 are great learning MRs, and you will be able to build on them as time goes by and still use them in your business (presuming that's what your intent is to do). I would suggest you fly those first without any camera or gimbal and "fly the hell out of it" as stitch said, so that your learning experience through the crashes you will have won't be too expensive. Then as you feel you've master ATTitude mode, then Manual mode, then add a nice gimbal to it for whatever camera you wish and you can use that setup for photo and video.
 

R

RobertsUp

Member
Ditto to what the others wrote. I began with an mQX in February and also got the Aerosim flight simulator, which includes a little manual flown quad. I crash it every time in the sim.

At that same time I chose the slow route and began ordering the parts for the F450. It was finished and first flown three weeks ago. It flew well but I didn't dare fly it in manual mode. The next weekend I crashed it because I didn't operate the switches on the transmitter correctly. All the parts I need for repairing it have arrived and because I built it myself I know exactly how to fix it.

When I first discovered FPV videos on Youtube I just knew I had to have one myself. I considered throwing money at it and buying an s800 but Bart's stickys on this forum convinced me to go the slow route and learn by doing. I'm satisfied with the learning path I chose. Hopefully my F450 will fly again on Sunday. More elaborate craft are in my future but not anytime this year, I think.

No gimbel or fpv is in store for my F450. A GoPro and a jelly reducing mount at most. I have the GoPro camera already but criminy, I still don't have video file manipulation software. I never expect to make any money off of AP but I sure am having fun learning one baby step at a time. Hoping you'll have fun too.

Best, Rob
 
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gtranquilla

gtranquilla

RadioActive
Likewise I started with the MQX and worked my way up to the F550 learning to fly in manual..... but more recently I moved up to an 800mm MR airframe c/w GoPro and brushless gimbal using the WKM..... But when I now switch to manual mode the MR shifts in to high gear until I can get the throttle pulled back and regain control...... but still too hot to handle.... :dejection: Anyone have any ideas how to tame Manual mode so that I can switch modes without scaring myself...???... tried RC remote tuning of vertical gain but made no difference to Manual vertical control.....
 

P

ProPilotWannaBe

Member
gtranquilla said:
Anyone have any ideas how to tame Manual mode so that I can switch modes without scaring myself...???... tried RC remote tuning of vertical gain but made no difference to Manual vertical control.....
Click to expand...
Tranquila, from what I understand, that isn't "fixable". When in ATT or GPS mode, the FC is using the throttle input for altitude hold so that a ~50% input equates to holding altitude. While in manual mode it's a straight control and how the aircraft responds is a function of the aircraft weight. For some lighter aircraft holding alt wil be around 40%, while in heavier ones it may be 60%.
I always just have my finger on the throttle when I'm gonna switch mode, and yes, it can be scary.
 

maxwelltub

maxwelltub

Member
Sounds like you need a little D/R on your transmitter. I learned to fly CP helis for about a year before I final figures out and started using dual rates. Makes a World of difference. I even use dual rates on alti mode when doing certain aerial photography flights.
 


K

kobemrozio

Member
Hi Guys,</SPAN>

Thanks for all replies. </SPAN>

I have just ordered Hubsan X4 V2 H107L 2.4G 4CH RC Quadcopter RTF for the flying lesson stage.</SPAN>

In the meantime I have decided to slowly build a F550 as project A.</SPAN>

So at the beginning I was happy with basic kit:</SPAN>

http://www.buildyourowndrone.co.uk/DJI-F550-Flame-Wheel-Hexacopter-ARTF-Kit-p/dji-fhexakit.htm</SPAN>

with a few added extra’s (</SPAN>gimbal, FPV and hero 3, landing gear and DJI Naza with GPS)</SPAN>. However many hours of trawling the internet, has started me looking at bigger and better. This leads me to an important question? What is the minimum that I would need for making professional recordings of flybys eg, golf holes, sporting events, festivals and landscapes. </SPAN>

DJI F550, Flame Wheel.</SPAN>
DJI Naza with GPS</SPAN>
AeroXCraft, Landing gear.</SPAN>
Tiger Motor 2814-10. (770Kv) or DJI Flame Wheel Motor 920Kv</SPAN>
RMRC-700XV 700TVL ATR CCD (PAL).</SPAN>
600mW 5.8GHz A/V Transmitter</SPAN>
Spektrum DX8 or Turnigy 9X 9Ch</SPAN>
Zippy, 5800mah, 30C, 4S.</SPAN>
GoPro, HD Hero 3.</SPAN>
AR8000 X, (Telemetri)</SPAN>
Spektrum: TM1000</SPAN>
5.8 GHz Cloverleaf Whip Antenna (RHCP) (Single, Right Angle).</SPAN>
Fat Shark Dominator Video Glasses.</SPAN>
Fatshark Battery for Aviator and Dominator Goggles.</SPAN>
Fat Shark Dominator 5.8GHz Receiver Module.</SPAN>
RMRC 2200mAh 3S 35C Lipo Pack.</SPAN>
Duo5800 A/V Diversity Receiver.</SPAN>
EZtracker Antenna Tracker.</SPAN>
Antenna Pan/Tilt for ImmersionRC EZTracker.</SPAN>
Servos and Pan/Tilt Options - HS-485HB Servos</SPAN>

This is an example of what I would like to do:</SPAN>

http://www.masters.com/en_US/course/holes/hole1.html</SPAN>

If you could set it up what would you choose from above? </SPAN>

Thanks,
Mike
 

S

stitch1615

Member
kobemrozio said:
This is an example of what I would like to do:

http://www.masters.com/en_US/course/holes/hole1.html

If you could set it up what would you choose from above?

Thanks,
Mike
Click to expand...


Mike, that is an example of what we ALL would like to do.
I'm not convinced that is not, at least in part, CG.


DJI F550, Flame Wheel.
DJI Naza with GPS
Tiger Motor 2814-10. (770Kv)
Spektrum DX8
Zippy, 5800mah, 40C-70C, 4S.
GoPro, HD Hero 3.
AR8000 X, (Telemetri)
Spektrum: TM1000

That's My idea of a good Hex.
 

D

DDuncan

Member
Hey man, I'm a noob too and have been training orientation and smooth flight for a couple of months now. LOVE IT! My end result is for AP as well, and there's no denying that the tough little mqx blade can take a beating and keep on going. It's been invaluable to me. About to make my first 'big boy' leap with the XProHeli2 I'm picking up, and I can't wait. The only reason I'm going with that platform however is because my boss wants to shoot with an NEX. Otherwise, I'd absolutely go with the QAV 550 (when it comes out) from www.getfpv.com. Smooth, solid, and I love the body design. But it's GoPro only.

All I can say is that training with orientation, flying backwards, doing circles and figure 8's, flying from every angle has been invaluable. I still have a ton to learn, but I'm loving every minute of it!
 

Breezemont

Breezemont

Member
DDuncan said:
The only reason I'm going with that platform however is because my boss wants to shoot with an NEX. Otherwise, I'd absolutely go with the QAV 550 (when it comes out) from www.getfpv.com. Smooth, solid, and I love the body design. But it's GoPro only.
Click to expand...
The difference in a frame that can lift a GoPro and one that can lift an NEX is negligible at best. You can build a frame out of cedar for $30 that will lift a DSLR.
The only thing you need is more thrust, that comes from the power system, not the frame.

 
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K

kobemrozio

Member
Hi Guys,

Thanks for all replies helping me with my project.

After hours of flying and crashing Hubsan X4 v2 I decided to start my project A.
DJI F550 (primary budget 1k exceeded to 1.5k) I have included a list of parts that I have already ordered below.

F550 Hexa
T-motor 2814-10 kv770
Graupner 10x5
Graupner 10x5 L
Naza M V2 Flight Controller Inc GPS
DJI 30A Opto Esc
Turnigy 5000mah 4S 14.8v 20-30c
DJI F550 Landing Gear Set
GoPro HERO3 Black Edition


Based on the list above what would you recommend to order next?

- Transmitter (Futaba (made for Naza) or Spectrum or else + lipo? Turnigy 9XR not consider any more due to bad reviews.
- Receiver
- Telemetry
- FPV
- Anything else…..

Thanks,

Mike
 
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P

ProPilotWannaBe

Member
What do you plan to use it for? Just FPV?
If for photo or video shooting, your going to need a video downlink a pond monitor setup, or your FPV goggles.
I am partial towards Futaba. I think the 8FG are great, and will come with an R6208SB receiver, but you can also use a cheaper FrSky receiver.
I also like my DJI iOSD for telemetry.
 


P

ProPilotWannaBe

Member
kobemrozio said:
This is an example of what I would like to do:
http://www.masters.com/en_US/course/holes/hole1.html
Click to expand...
Doh! Sorry, I forgot you had posted that as your ultimate goal.

So for starters, yes, you will NEED a video downlink and some kind of display device on the ground. The key next question is if it is a dual person setup, or a single person. I'll give you my quick take on that:
For the types of shots in that the referenced webpage had, you don't need a two person setup. A two person setup is typically need for more elaborate kinds of video shots where the aircraft is flying a certain patern and the camera has to be doing something different other than looking in the direction you are traveling. Don't get me wrong, a two person setup is always ideal because even with simple video shots the pilot can focus entirely on position and flight path, and someone else can focus on framing the shot.

So if you go with a single person setup, then I would recommend against FPV and focus on a video downlink and telemetry overlay on that video. I say no FPV because as the sole operator you will need to keep one eye on the aircraft and you maneuver around your subject, and one on the video you are trying to frame. You would only need a two axis gimbal, and you would need to ensure that your transmitter/receiver will support an additional channel for controlling the tilt of the camera. The gimbal will be locked forward, and the controller will keep the camera level to the horizon without your input. I use the DJI iOSD and VTx combo with my cameras. Since you are talking GoPro Hero3, I would suggest you look at the Tarot gimbal, or the DJI H3-2D gimbal. Both are brushless gimbals and have great performance, cost being the difference and it's easy of installing and connecting.

If you go with a two person setup, you will definitely need one video transmitter from your GoPro to your camera operator's display. Then you'd have to decide if the pilot will fly solely by Line Of Sight (LOS), or solely by FPV, or a mix between, and that would determine if you need another camera onboard, and another video transmitter. With the setup you've described, the two camera/VTx setup might be pushing the weight limits of the MR.

My recommendation, for the setup your described and the type of video you are planning for, that you go with single operator setup and a 2 axis gimbal. And regardless of that decision, pick a transmitter/receiver combo that gives you 8-12 channels you can grow into and support your FC and gimbal requirements for both today's setup, and the setup you'll grow into a year from now. I use my 14 channel Futaba 8FG for my single person setups, as well as my dual person setups.
 

B

bruce365

Null
After hours of flying and crashing Hubsan X4 v2 I decided to start my project A.
DJI F550 (primary budget 1k exceeded to 1.5k) I have included a list of parts that I have already ordered below.

F550 Hexa
T-motor 2814-10 kv770
Graupner 10x5
Graupner 10x5 L
Naza M V2 Flight Controller Inc GPS
DJI 30A Opto Esc
Turnigy 5000mah 4S 14.8v 20-30c
DJI F550 Landing Gear Set
GoPro HERO3 Black Edition

Hi, Just one question what are you going to do with a 500 watt motor that weighs 120 grams draws 29 amps (you will never get any where near that with 10" graupners, maybe 200 watts max.), you can not utilise its power on an F550 unless you install arm extensions and use larger props. I would suggest something more sensible to use with the graupner 10" props like the tiger 2216-11 900kv or 2216-12 800kv.
Save yourself money and lots of weight.
regards - bruce
 

K

kobemrozio

Member
Thanks for all replies,

ProPilotWannaBe - Thanks for the advise Futaba 8FG is on order now and yes - single operator setup

bruce365 - Thanks for your comment. I tell you that I'm pretty confused now. As you can see from this post this is my first project and it is the reason why I'm seeking knowledge from advance players. I bounced between threads regarding T-motors and groupner props size on 3S or 4S and can see mix opinions. Finally I have made a decision and it seems to be wrong.

What would you advice to change having already below parts to maintaining smooth over 10 min flight.

F550 Hexa
T-motor 2814-10 kv770
Graupner 10x5
Turnigy 5000mah 4S 14.8v 20-30c

Thanks,

Mike

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1764801
 

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