How the Pros fly

[SchrodingersCar]

As a long-time video professional getting more and more involved in multi rotor systems, and beginning to form business plans of my own, a (possibly noobish) question keeps popping up for me:

With larger, more expensive, and more dangerous 2-man AP systems... how do you prefer to fly? Specifically, Manual or Atti? FPV or eyes on?

I try to practice flying every day, and my skills are pretty decent, but I don't know if I'll ever feel safe flying 30+ lbs and easily 5 figures in full manual mode. I realize many of you have something like 10-20 years on the sticks compared to my 2. I'm very concerned with getting the smoothest maneuvers and best shots possible, but that is a FAR second after safety. So... what's the best practices among the vets? When you say you fly manual, do you mean FPV (much easier)? Do you have great faith that your feed won't cut out? Personally I feel like it's unwise to rely on FPV view? Or are you flying manual LOS? How do you retain your sense of orientation when your copter retreats to a speck in the air? I hope you'll indulge me with a debate!

 

[SleepyC]

1) FPV is illegal for AV work, so it must always be LOS.

2) There is no right answer. My friend ONLY flys in Manual he has NO GPS connected to his system. He is successful that way. ME I have 20= years stick time and I still like GPS. I tune my rigs to be as smooth as possible in GPS and fly SuperX and A2. But if I lose GPS I can confidently fly in ATTI mode with out to much bother. Personally I do not fly my high $$$$$ AV rigs in manual because there is no point in my eyes. When you are flying a lot of money I use every advantage offered to me.

3) I rarely find that commercial work demands you to be really far away from your rig. Maybe 500 - 1000 feet, but usually more like 300 - 500 ft. And if it gets too far away I stop, let it hover for a moment and try going to the right and to the left. If the copter responds properly then I gently pull back on the ELE and let the rig come back towards me until I am comfortable again. If it's REALLY out there for some reason I once in a great while will activate RTH.

 

[SchrodingersCar]

Thanks for the input Sleepy. To clarify, I guess by FPV in this instance I mean watching your FPV cam on a monitor, not using goggles. Is that technically equally illegal?

I guess specifically: Does your friend who flies manual do it while watching a video feed or by watching the multi rotor itself?

 

[maxwelltub]

I wouldn't recommend FPV goggles, if anything goes wrong they become a blind fold. I only fly manual or Atti because I've had time GPS has started acting up. But its preference. What is important is you learn to fly all the modes, or at the very least be proficient in atti in all orientations.

 

[Carapau]

I use the FPV screen a great deal but in exactly the same way as a pilot scans his instruments. Look at the screen, look at the aircraft, look at the screen, the aircraft and so on. I never fly in manual mode as all it takes is a loss of orientation at the wrong time and in the rig will go. I know too many highly experienced RC heli pilots that have done this and orientation is easier on a heli than on an MR. I also don't see any advantage in using manual. GPS and Atti are great to use so why not use them. That's not to say I cant fly manual by the way, I can happily fly manual but just choose not to on my AP rigs.

 

[flappybird]

I'm a solo operator 100%, and I operate the gimbal (360 degrees) in non-orientation lock 90+ percent of the time using FPV as a tool not a crutch. Once solo technique is mastered a camera operator is unnecessary. There are many creative, technical, and safety benefits to Soloing. I'm a camera man who utilizes drones to create the sequences I want. I could not imagine needing a camera operator, nor would I ever want to give up creative ownership of the sequences I create.

 

[Carapau]

Flappybird, I mean this as a genuine question, not a dig or anything but what safety benefits does soloing bring as I can only see disadvantages eg getting sucked into 'the shot' and thus not giving the right attention to the aircraft and where it is with regard to its surroundings and other air users?

 

[flappybird]

Carapau, Totally reasonable question. I see the dual operator technique the same way e.g. being 50-100 yards out in a wide open field 20 feet off the deck while traveling left to right and not knowing if you're about to fly behind, in front of, or hit that lone tree in the middle. I truly feel it's absurd how so many professional AP pilots have little to no FPV skill.

...As for surroundings, other air users, etc. I would argue with the benefits of Soloing I am more capable of recognizing and avoiding real danger.

Safety mitigation skills are always going to be linked to experience and awareness. Possessing a more advanced piloting skill set like Soloing is not going to reduce safety in any situation, but what it can do is remove many of the technical, safety and creative limitations which are unavoidably attached to the dual operator technique.

My opinion isn't meant to dig on dual operators. There are certainly many more crews producing fantastic work operating that way. I just believe Soloing is the best option because the art form improves with it.

 

[MadMonkey]

I fly both single and dual-operator.

I disable manual on the large birds (Cinestar X8 and Skyjib X8) because I never, ever use it except in testing (when it can easily be re-activated. I view the chance of accidentally flipping into manual far more of a liability than the miniscule chance of ever needing it). I fly manual almost exclusively with my FPV racers and with some other multis, but I don't use it on the professional setups. I fly a mix of Atti and GPS depending on the shot I'm getting... if I need to be absolutely still, I use GPS. If I'm near obstructions, GPS. There's always a chance of getting distracted by something else (someone shouting, a bee on you, etc) so GPS helps a lot in certain situations.

I was using a single monitor, but I'm in the process of building a new tray capable of holding two RC transmitters (configurable for one, one and a joystick gimbal controller, or two transmitters), two monitors and an iPad, because I have learned that more information is definitely better (FPV cam, gimbal cam, ground station). I only use FPV goggles with certain single-operator setups since they can easily be a liability due to limited situational awareness.

For aircraft orientation, if I'm flying LOS at longer distances I stay in the same orientation as much as possible. If I have a working FPV cam and I have SOLID video, then I'll keep an eye on the monitor and try to maintain the same orientation as the gimbal in case I have sudden instructions to move left-right (which has happened).

 

[Tuomas P.]

Atti mode or GPS mode. When filming, always a 2-man setup. Only advantages while doing that:

Better material for the customer
Shorter flights with less retakes
Pilot has always 2 extra eyes to help if needed
Nobody steals your transmitter or disturbs your flying without facing the camera op first
Overall better safety
Tuomas

 

[Bartman]

lots of good responses, for me personally photography is always done using GPS position hold, video is always hand flown but using autolevel (or some form of it depending on the controller) as a flight aid.
like Sleepy said, GPS return-to-home is handy, in my case it gives me a second to breathe and let the heli fly itself back, but if the GPS isn't working it won't keep us from flying.

autonomous flight modes are heavily marketed for video production but i don't see how they could be such a big time saver when programming and route tweaking could take time on location where others are waiting on you. then if the shot doesn't work you have to start over with programming and tweaking before being ready to fly/shoot again? seems more of a nice-to-have than a need-to-have

 

[SchrodingersCar]

Thanks for all the replies guys. It sounds largely what I would expect it to be... I think I was just thrown off when browsing these forums because I seem to hear a lot of talk about manual flight from the more seasoned folks. I can fly manual pretty well now, but the thought of relying on it on my big/heavy/expensive rig sounds unnecessarily terrifying.

 

[SleepyC]

The real answer is... Do what works best for YOU. If your end result is amazing and you programmed everything and didn't touch a stick... who cares, the footage is what counts!

 

[SchrodingersCar]

Thanks Sleepy, although I would argue my main point in this thread is that it's the SAFETY that counts. The footage comes second!

 

[SleepyC]

Thanks Sleepy, although I would argue my main point in this thread is that it's the SAFETY that counts. The footage comes second!

YES... you are correct!

 

[econfly]

I'll be the pedantic economist that I am: If safety came first we wouldn't fly at all. Obviously flying has non-zero risk regardless of best efforts to mitigate it. Safety therefore is traded for results. People hate saying it this way, but it is logically and obviously true. The right way to say it is that the footage is the primary point, and the responsible thing to do is to get that footage with minimal risk, and never with risk that rises above the acceptable. That all lacks the pithiness of "safety first", but it has the benefit of being accurate.

Anyway, I'm no pro, but I only use manual mode when testing a new configuration. Then I turn it off.

 

[Bartman]

I'll be the pedantic economist that I am: If safety came first we wouldn't fly at all. Obviously flying has non-zero risk regardless of best efforts to mitigate it. Safety therefore is traded for results. People hate saying it this way, but it is logically and obviously true. The right way to say it is that the footage is the primary point, and the responsible thing to do is to get that footage with minimal risk, and never with risk that rises above the acceptable. That all lacks the pithiness of "safety first", but it has the benefit of being accurate.

Anyway, I'm no pro, but I only use manual mode when testing a new configuration. Then I turn it off.

semantics but relevant for a "pedantic economist", manual mode can't be turned off, you can only turn something else on to supplement it, no?

but i know what you meant!

 

[MadMonkey]

I'll be the pedantic economist that I am: If safety came first we wouldn't fly at all.

I subscribe to Mike Rowe's theory about Safety Third...