How do I increase my lift on a Flamewheel 450
- Thread starter bensid54
- Start date
can you quantify "increase"? What do you want to carry that you can't right now? What does it weigh? What are you hoping to do with the 450 that you can't do right now?
The resin I'm asking all those questions, is that depending on the task, it may be difficult or impossible to accomplish with your 450. Conversely, it may be as simple as a different set of props, so more information will help a lot.
The resin I'm asking all those questions, is that depending on the task, it may be difficult or impossible to accomplish with your 450. Conversely, it may be as simple as a different set of props, so more information will help a lot.
bensid54
Member
I have the stock motors, 30 amp ESC, 10 inch DJI props, two fat shark cameras and TX mounted on a DJI Flamewheel 450. A Naza Lite controller with a 14 channel Futaba RX. What I want to do is mount a Go Pro camera and a foam/wood flying saucer body. I was thinking a beefier set of motors may do the trick
Arm extenders. Lower KV motors, larger diam props and higher s batteries. You can use my tool to calculate the basics http://www.multirotorforums.com/sho...ple-Frame-Prop-Motor-calculator-for-beginners and when you've done that you can cram that into ecalc to see if you get the 50% throttle.
you really have to look at those in totality because they are so closely interconnected. Change each one individually will make a small change; change them collectively and your total change can be much greater than the sum of the individual items. Longer arms, lower Kv motors, bigger props will make a much bigger change than, say changing the batteries and putting on longer arms & bigger props. Does that make sense? You can realize a measurable increase in lifting capacity changing the arms, props and motors, even if you stay with the batteries you're using. Change to a 4S on top of the other improvements will get the biggest bang for your buck.
Do you have a sense of the total weight of this saucer-type shell you're thinking of adding? I'm guessing this is primarily an appearance thing...give that a good bit of thought. You can cancel out a lot of the potential gains you make changing all those things, just by carrying unnecessary weight. If you want to streamline the looks, maybe look at the domes for a 450 that Bradatech makes.
Do you have a sense of the total weight of this saucer-type shell you're thinking of adding? I'm guessing this is primarily an appearance thing...give that a good bit of thought. You can cancel out a lot of the potential gains you make changing all those things, just by carrying unnecessary weight. If you want to streamline the looks, maybe look at the domes for a 450 that Bradatech makes.
gtranquilla
RadioActive
Sooner or later your new motors will need bigger props. Which in turn requires longer motor arms. But because the motor arm extenders were heavy, I chose to go with this alternate $60 Hex with 80mm polymide arms. You can either remove two arms to make a Quad, move four arms from the Hex onto the quad or shift up to a Hex at very little cost.
View attachment 16945Use eCalc for multirotors to fine tune your design and avoid buying a lot of parts that will not be compatible.
View attachment 16945Use eCalc for multirotors to fine tune your design and avoid buying a lot of parts that will not be compatible.
Attachments
Are you sure? That sounds insanely high kv for a motor. Especially with 10" props.
RichardDoty
Member
Get a motor with higher KV than the one right now.
you mean 'lower', right?
I checked dji and Im guessing you are giving the motor dimensions not the kv e.g. you have dji 2212 which are the dimensions of the motor. Those 2212 are e.g. 920 KV which go well with 10-11" props. So IF you have those than you could try 11" props, according to my calculator they should fit (if you gave the correct specs) and the 920KV should be able to handle those.
The next thing you can check is to see what battery type your motors can handle (check the specs). I'm guessing (but you REALLY should check this) 3s/4s. IF you have 3s batteries then you can go for the 4s so your motors can better handle the new props. (check with ecalc)
My calculator also tells me that your rig *should* be able to handle 12" props (but that's cutting it really close so maybe wiser not to). If you go for that then you need something around 760KV motors and higher S batteries (5 or 6S but not sure so check with ecalc).
RichardDoty
Member
No, higher... If we can't change the props. We need a faster motor to increase the lift, of course it should have enough torque.... So it's higher....IMO
I don't think it will work that way, or better said maybe it will work but will have a significant impact on flight time (as in: that it will drop drastically) as it makes a very inefficient system. Motor KV are closely tied to the prop size (and vice versa) deviating from that will have drastic impact on efficiency.
It might also simply not work as higher KV usually have less torgue while lower KV have higher torgue. Hence lower kv can handle bigger props AND are more efficient as they have less revolutions. Thus keeping the same props and upping the KV might result in no lift at all as the motors can't handle it.
It might also simply not work as higher KV usually have less torgue while lower KV have higher torgue. Hence lower kv can handle bigger props AND are more efficient as they have less revolutions. Thus keeping the same props and upping the KV might result in no lift at all as the motors can't handle it.
RichardDoty
Member
I said, it should have enough torque...
I had the same issue. My stock 2212-920 were OK, but I was starting to push 2kg and they were struggling.
I changed my motors to the NTM 2836-750kv (not the best but they do the job), moved to 4S. AUW is just under 2.2kg with 500mAh 4S, FPV cam and GoPro with XAircraft Stella Gimbal. Plenty of lift! I stuck with the 1045 props I was using before. If you want to stay with 3S you will need at least 11" props with these motors.
I changed my motors to the NTM 2836-750kv (not the best but they do the job), moved to 4S. AUW is just under 2.2kg with 500mAh 4S, FPV cam and GoPro with XAircraft Stella Gimbal. Plenty of lift! I stuck with the 1045 props I was using before. If you want to stay with 3S you will need at least 11" props with these motors.
Without getting into a deep technical discussion and a lot of complicated math, high torque motors and high rpm motors are two very different animals. Torque being a measurement of twisting force is usually generated at lower RPM and by increased mass of the rotating assembly, think along the lines of a big block Chevy engine, lots of torque, much lower redline than the small block engines. The small blocks have considerably less torque but can be spun to a higher RPM than the big block due partly to the lower weight of the spinning bits. If you look at the graph for any given powerplant the torque peak always occurs at a lower RPM than the power peak (max RPM), so going for a higher RPM (generally lighter rotating mass) motor and expecting it to produce more torque than a lower RPM motor (with greater rotating mass) just isn't going to happen.
A nice side effect of lower RPM, higher torque motors is they tend to be more energy efficient than higher RPM motors. A good example is the TBS Discovery frame I'm experimenting with which has extended arms, 390kv motors, and 12 x 3.8 props. On a 6s 4000 battery I can fly 20 minutes and land with the pack at 75% discharge. The exact same frame and equipment with 940 kv motors on 4S with 8 x 5 props has a max flight time of roughly 11 minutes and can't lift nearly as much weight as the slower spinning motors. Granted the smaller motor setup is a lot more performance oriented but that's not what you want when building a multi for APV use, smooth and steady is the better flight profile so larger, slower motors with bigger props and potentially more cells in the battery is the way you want to go.
Ken
A nice side effect of lower RPM, higher torque motors is they tend to be more energy efficient than higher RPM motors. A good example is the TBS Discovery frame I'm experimenting with which has extended arms, 390kv motors, and 12 x 3.8 props. On a 6s 4000 battery I can fly 20 minutes and land with the pack at 75% discharge. The exact same frame and equipment with 940 kv motors on 4S with 8 x 5 props has a max flight time of roughly 11 minutes and can't lift nearly as much weight as the slower spinning motors. Granted the smaller motor setup is a lot more performance oriented but that's not what you want when building a multi for APV use, smooth and steady is the better flight profile so larger, slower motors with bigger props and potentially more cells in the battery is the way you want to go.
Ken
TheUFGadget
Member
This frame can hold up to 12 inch props. You can get motors accordingly. But the lower the KV you probably want to step up your voltage (more cells) for efficiency.
indeed you did and RTTYder already explained:
but to add a visual: its a bit like having a a truck and a trailer. The trailer is getting too heavy so the question is raised: what do I need to do with the truck? To which you suggest replacing it for a Porche but it has to have enough horsepower. The fact that the wheels of the porche can spin REALLY fast doesn't help one bit of getting the trailer to move, saying that 'it should have enough horsepower' is like saying that you should replace the engine of the porche with one of a truck: it makes little sense.