Hi from London

[Meeware]

Hi, I'm working in London, and our team have just bought a couple of small UAS in order to work up safe operational procedures and develop a few core skills. Since we are doing this professionally the first steps are very much around the admin side of things- we've done our BNUC-S ground school course, and are currently working up a full blown Ops Manual with a view to qualifying and getting practice and development flights underway later this summer.

We've bought a DJI Phantom and a SteadiDrone QU4D as these are the low cost end of the market where any ops manual we develop will be of most value. Right now the machines are just out of the box, and we're only at the stage of dusting them off, balancing the props (surprisingly easy for the Phantom, a real pain on the QU4D) and booking in some training. If any other forum members have experience of these two aircraft I'd love to hear from you- we appreciate these are not top of the range kit, but we bought them because compromised as they are, the issues they raise are the issues that a huge number of people in the UK are likely to face over the next year or two, and we want to figure out how to use these sensibly and safely.

I'm not aying where I'm from you'll note, and that's because my views are not my employers, and I'm here as me, trying to figure this out!

So, er, yeah, hi!

 

[Benjamin Kenobi]

Welcome!

You'll find a route to every answer on this forum. What kind of images are you hoping to get? Or what kind of industry are you in? Just say what you can, no need to fully spill the beans.


Have fun!

 

[Meeware]

I'm in the technology side of broadcasting.

The basic footage we expect to gather is aerial general views- the sort of thing that would be seen in a local news story on TV about a flood, or an overturned lorry, or a cow in a field doing something slightly unusual. Generally a lot of news stories would benefit from having an aerial view, but helicopters are expensive, so usually they don't get sent. We anticipate the widespread use of UAS by independant news photographers and a growing demand from a range of program makers, and we want to develop expertise to give them the guidance to do it safely and well, if not do it ourselves.

And so far it has been a lot of fun, and a lot of heartache!

Thanks for the warm welcome!

 

[Benjamin Kenobi]

That sounds like a great idea! I think legally we a little constrained in what we can do 'spur of the moment' as their is the element of planning involved, but you've gone through ground school (as I just have also) so probably have a pretty good idea what we can do. I know many in the public are 'anti drones' but I can still honestly see them everywhere in the next few decades.

Good luck with the Ops Manual! I'm finding it quite dry in places....

 

[Bowley]

Meeware, your doing it a bit back to front, you want to get all your practise and development done and establish what you need before compiling your Ops manual and doing pt2.
Good plan to cut your teeth with what you have but no point spashing out on flight tests just for development.

Steve

 

[Meeware]

I think I see your point, and it's not that we wouldn't love the luxury of building up huge experience before documenting it, but a couple of factors are driving us to our current approach:
we need to get the manual out ASAP as the tools are out there now, and the risk we are seeking to minimise with good guidance is real now.
if we are going to operate in a professional way to build that experience, then we need to have a CAA permit to work, and that means the full Ops Manual, Safety Case etc

I'm comfortable wit our approach, and there are well defined processes for updating an ops manual too which avoids the chicken/egg quandary i think you're getting at.

 

[Meeware]

Re the news angle and planning time- totally appreciate that, and in most locations and circumstances I would expect at least a day or two in hand to allow a properly planned flight, especially if working with a broadcast client.
However it may be possible to define operations that limit risk sufficiently to get a well managed team into the field at short notice to do some tightly limited filming work. We've already considered equipment such as spectrum analysers to avoid RF problems, and using tools such as SkyDemon does allow a very clear and up to date view of the status of airspace. I don't mean to understate the challenges, but given the potential benefits it is an area we want to explore.

 

[Marklincs]

Hi,
I have just done my bnucs as well and I am currently working on 2 airframes, Vulcan multicopter 900mm and an x8 plane. I'm writing my ops manual as well. Airframes are close to flight tests I do before bnucs flight test (I'll spend a couple of weeks tunning them for how I like to fly)

If you were local I'd teach you to fly the machines you have but what cameras will they even lift? Go pros wont cut it, fish eye effect and while people think there good for HD TV production forget it.

 

[Bowley]

Meeware, just get your phantom out in a safe field and fly it manual till your thumbs bleed, forget the GPS unless you really need it in a hairy moment.
Flying skill and second nature orientation awareness is the basis of safe and sensible operations, more so than a BNU and Ops manuals and safety case's.
I have a BNUC but after almost 3 yrs I still have to work on flying skills constantly. I use a F330 (basically a phantom) and a 450 heli as beaters for flying practice.

I may have misunderstood but is your business model basically introducing potential clients to RTF UAS so they can get their own shots. Not knocking you buddy just asking as I have my own theories and predictions on where the industry is heading for RC AP/V service providers.
My personal feeling is that the activity demands more than just buying an RTF ship and throwing it up when you need it.

 

[Meeware]

Hi Mark,

I take your point entirely, and if the point of our project was getting 'good' content, then the minimum we'd be looking at is a decent sized hex with a gimbal mounted GH2 or 3. This project is about 'good enough' though, and more to the point, what we think will be the 'good enough' that will be offered by small scale operators the length and breadth of the country. I should be clear too- this is about developing an understanding, not becoming a commercial operator ourselves.

In terms of practice and practice and practice, yes I totally agree, and we'll need to find time for that. And for the mechanical tweaking that can really add to the finese of both the flught and the footage.

Don't discount the go-pro though- from a broadcast perspective the content off one of these is more 'usable' than a LOT of DSLRs. not all the DSLRs are terrible admittedly (some of the new Nikon etc are very clever in the way their chips produce video) but the Go-Pro plus Phantom combo is so low cost as to be economically 'disposable' within the context of a production, and still delivers shots that are otherwise impossible.


I'd be very interested to hear about your operation once your up and running, be sure to post a link to a showreel when you've got one!

 

[Meeware]

Bowley, thanks for the advice- it does sound familiar!

The "business model" is to provide guidance to program makers, new editors and other clients of UAS firms. We want them as client to understand the pros cons and pitfalls of UAS usage, and how to ensure their productions hire safe people, understand the capabilities that are on offer, and run a safe set or location.I agree totally that a good operation is appreciably more than simply hoiking someing into the air- it's a combination of technologies, skills and safe practice, and to e honest all of them take time and money (but especially time) to develop. I really want program makers to understand this clearly. Flying, for us, is a way to produce good expertise to share with program makers, and illustrate the points we are trying to make.

 

[Marklincs]

Hi Mark,

I take your point entirely, and if the point of our project was getting 'good' content, then the minimum we'd be looking at is a decent sized hex with a gimbal mounted GH2 or 3. This project is about 'good enough' though, and more to the point, what we think will be the 'good enough' that will be offered by small scale operators the length and breadth of the country. I should be clear too- this is about developing an understanding, not becoming a commercial operator ourselves.

In terms of practice and practice and practice, yes I totally agree, and we'll need to find time for that. And for the mechanical tweaking that can really add to the finese of both the flught and the footage.

Don't discount the go-pro though- from a broadcast perspective the content off one of these is more 'usable' than a LOT of DSLRs. not all the DSLRs are terrible admittedly (some of the new Nikon etc are very clever in the way their chips produce video) but the Go-Pro plus Phantom combo is so low cost as to be economically 'disposable' within the context of a production, and still delivers shots that are otherwise impossible.


I'd be very interested to hear about your operation once your up and running, be sure to post a link to a showreel when you've got one!

I wouldn't recommend a DSLR for video for sure!

DSLRs are for taking stills

on my BNUCS there were two BBC research guys and they were doing the BNUCS Ground School course to understand more about SUA for video work and when they want to wet hire someone for the Jobs.

So I know which cameras I'll be avoiding like the plague

Nex5 is for Stills only

when i'm fully up and running I'll have a show reel

I'm currently waiting on brushless gimbals that handle the cameras I want to carry until then I wait.

Although the Plane is well in build for survey work and would like to test that soon as well