Has GPS dumbed down this hobby?

[Leslie LP]

With all the new Naza/Wookong A3X and other auto gyro/gps systems has technology dumbed down this hobby?

I have never flow 3D, but I can now imagine a time that I can with all of these autostabilization systems. Am I missing out on good cyclic touch flying?

I have been flying my DJI F550 on GPS mode mostly so when I landed and tried manual I realized just how much the Naza/GPS was actually creating the illusion of stable flight control on my part.

In manual mode its is twitchy as hell and playing around with the gain did give me some better control but I can see where I would want my radio to be setup completely differently with some Expo, pitch curves etc. if I was to continue to fly in manual mode.

I have read a few post on here were other state emphactically (I am not dissing on anyone) that they only use the Manual mode for GPS Compass calibration purposes then reset it to Fail Safe never to see Manual mode again.

Are Multi Roto Copters without some sort of autopilot inherently that difficult to fly?

 

[Efliernz]

I've been flying rc helis for 7 years now. I haven't found the need for gps yet on my multis... I just fly. I know using stabilization that I have got lazy - so I now have my "disposable quad". KK2 board, 18mm square pine and I bash it around the park and I love it. Originally I built it for Matwelli's pylon racing but I am now flying nose-in circles again, something that I got slack on. As it is "disposable", it doesn't matter if I smack it and as I don't use rth on any of my copters, none of them ever get confused and try to run away "home"

Pete

 

[DucktileMedia]

I totally agree with you. GPS does have a place though. For some who take pics by themselves it is nice to have a reliable gps position hold. RTH is nice as a tool if you get too far out and would like to bring her in a little more to a safe controllable distance. but yes, all these automatic features are inevitably making less of a basic understanding of how helis work and how to fly manually in a traditional way. It is inevitable though that the future will be filled with easier to use helis that require next to no experience. They are already out there now.

 

[Efliernz]

I agree that there is a use for GPS and solo shooting. I admit that I could use it just to hold position. I have two Hoverfly Pro boards and I have considered the GPS add on but I'm sorting the model out first.

 

[DesJardins]

Without GPS I would feel safe doing FPV out of LOS period. If I was only flying LOS and smacking it around without a cam then I wouldn't buy GPS.

I think it serves a great purpose for AP work and "save your ***" situations

 

[Dewster]

I had a Draganflyer Ti. It was like flying in manual mode. Even with the Thermal intelligence (cause that was twitchy). I was pretty good at keeping it level. I crashed it twice. Once when I took off thinking that the Thermal Intelligence was activated and the other time the folding blades folded onto itself.

GPS and Attitude stabilization is a dream. It takes a lot of the stress out of flying, especially when your putting a lot of money up in the air with cameras/gimbals etc. It also engineers the human factor out of flying. Which is probably a good thing when you think about how many are putting these up in the air. lol!

Its just nice being able to put the craft in spot in space and leave it there. You still control the where it goes its just nice not having to control every breathing moment of the craft.

 

[Tomstoy2]

I fly in gps almost continuously. I have no interrest in sport flying a multi. That's what my fleet of srh's is for. For me, it's an invaluable tool.
I do get your point, though.
However, if you can do sport flying with a srh then, I've discovered, manual flying is with a multi really is no big deal. Just my opinion. I've had 2 quads with no gps, barely anything resembling stabilization.

With that in mind, does a new guy to flying need to know how to fly without? Guess it's a matter of personal preference. It would certainly make you a better pilot.

Considering we are just in the beginning phase of all this autotonimous control I can see where eventually in the very near future where it will indeed become a lost art.

All I really know for sure is I have waited my entire life to get to the point where we find ourselves now!

 

[139 jockey]

The funny thing is that this is just like flying real Helicopters, in the good old days I used to chug around in un goverened fully manual machines all the time. Now hardly any one gets to fly an un goverened old bird. The fact is that technology does make life easier, and you can't escape the fact that in most cases the technology ( IMU / AHRS / GPS etc.) does stuff better than us mere mortals. Just look at airbus, most of those pilots hate the lack of control / computer interventions that AB they are famous for, but it still works and will continue to be used.

 

[bensid54]

When you say manual flying do you mean no stabilization just set up motor mixing using only ESC and receiver? Or in the case of the Blade QX that has a stabilizer board is that considered manual flying?

 

[RobertsUp]

I remember building my first Desktop PC with parts found all over the place. It was state of the art. A 540 MB hard drive and running DOS. No Windows. That machine was cool. Four months later it was obsolete and a dinosaur.

Today, people don't have to memorize DOS > commands to operate their computers.

And people flying GPS equipped multirotors don't have to know how to fly a fixed wing rc plane.

 

[Chalagi]

Well when I was flying my DJI F550 to me there wasn't nay difference between GPS stability and Manual stability. Manual as far as being "Level flying" was as good as GPS it just never stayed in one place in manual

 

[shill535]

I am a new pilot. I have flown nothing but helis for the past year. I crashed every single time I flew my 450 and would be done for a week or two until I could rebuild. I wasn't learning anything but rebuilding. I had a little quad that I loved and wanted a larger model. I decided on the DJI Phantom with GPS. Now I fly everyday and have learned more about orientation than I ever could have rebuilding all the time. Now I fly in manual mode most of the time and even do a little sport flying, but still fall back on Attitude mode when I get a little sideways. Because of the new technology I have become a dedicated heli pilot instead of a bored rebuilder that would have probably given up on the sport a long time ago. So I am a big fan of the technology. To the old pilots that came up without it, I'm sure it's boring but to a brand new pilot that really is interested in going to the field and learning the beauty of the sport, it is a wonderful tool to stay in the air long enough to learn to fly.

 

[Bowley]

I am a new pilot. I have flown nothing but helis for the past year. I crashed every single time I flew my 450 and would be done for a week or two until I could rebuild. I wasn't learning anything but rebuilding. I had a little quad that I loved and wanted a larger model. I decided on the DJI Phantom with GPS. Now I fly everyday and have learned more about orientation than I ever could have rebuilding all the time. Now I fly in manual mode most of the time and even do a little sport flying, but still fall back on Attitude mode when I get a little sideways. Because of the new technology I have become a dedicated heli pilot instead of a bored rebuilder that would have probably given up on the sport a long time ago. So I am a big fan of the technology. To the old pilots that came up without it, I'm sure it's boring but to a brand new pilot that really is interested in going to the field and learning the beauty of the sport, it is a wonderful tool to stay in the air long enough to learn to fly.

Good effort Shills, incidently, you could actually have achieved the same with CPM heli's using Naza H, flymentor or copilot 2 or such like.

 

[bensid54]

Not in my opinion a helicopter has so many moving parts and things to tweak they are a constant maintenance and a Flymentor can be a nightmare all on it's own. Since I got my Blade QX my flying pleasure is at it's best and I have yet to repair it once I get My Flamewheel 450 and Naza up in the air I plan on doing the FPV thing something I would never consider on an RC Heli. I've spent far too much time and money on RC helis and for me Quads are like finding a sport that involved less money and less work but more fun. I plan on making a flying saucer down the road.

 

[Bowley]

Horses for courses Bensid, heli's are really quite simple and parts fairly cheap, for say a 450. and its all done with just one motor and ESC. my views are biased though.

 

[sas]

I am a new pilot. I have flown nothing but helis for the past year. I crashed every single time I flew my 450 and would be done for a week or two until I could rebuild. I wasn't learning anything but rebuilding. I had a little quad that I loved and wanted a larger model. I decided on the DJI Phantom with GPS. Now I fly everyday and have learned more about orientation than I ever could have rebuilding all the time. Now I fly in manual mode most of the time and even do a little sport flying, but still fall back on Attitude mode when I get a little sideways. Because of the new technology I have become a dedicated heli pilot instead of a bored rebuilder that would have probably given up on the sport a long time ago. So I am a big fan of the technology. To the old pilots that came up without it, I'm sure it's boring but to a brand new pilot that really is interested in going to the field and learning the beauty of the sport, it is a wonderful tool to stay in the air long enough to learn to fly.

I would echo Bowley's words here - definitely a good effort
i wish more pilots, whether professional or sport, would take the time to fly their mr's in as manual a mode as possible - especially without GPS!
i have seen too many students who on day one of their course switch GPS on before their first take off. I always make them fly in manual as this certainly makes them a better pilot and gives the confidence needed to deal with a GPS failure.
I'm not anti gps in any way as it certainly helps reduce pilot workload when concentrating on the pictures.
However, I do completely abhor the current widely used fpv practice of flying beyond line of site and reliance on the aircraft's failsafe to bring it back when the radio range runs out or the pilot has no idea where it is. It's dangerous and totally illegal here in the uk.

 

[OneStopRC]

I am not sure what flying with a GPS has anything to do with anything! GPS is about location, where your craft is in relation to position, it does not make the craft more stable but does in turn offer features to return to home. I have flown my old 450 without GPS and with GPS, no difference in how I was flying. Unless you're referring to the position hold when you release control, then that is another story. Still, I don't think it could make you any or less better then you all ready might be.

Stabilization is the part that is dumbing the sport down, but most RC helicopters have had some sort of stabilization for many years, probably 20 plus years now. Anyone ever tried to fly an RC Helicopter without a GYRO? while it is twitchy, it can be done and there is a few people I knew used to fly that way. Now that took some serious skill, one I would admit that I was not too good at.

It is what it is.... yes, it is the way things are going. I guess if you're not happy with flying a multi-rotor without stabilization or GPS, unplug them..... now that is something I would love to see, a multi-rotor without some form of a stabilizer...

 

[gtranquilla]

Answer: No..... it's just an additional feature that comes in handy should you ever be in a situation where you lose RC radio communication or are flying line of sight at a great distance and can't figure out which control to use to bring it back home..... just switch over to IOC Home mode, pull back on the stick and it will return...... IOC Home also will help if you lose one motor or prop when your MR is at a great distance away..... in that case your MR will be spinning CW or CCW and Home mode is one way to pull it back to your take off position.....

With all the new Naza/Wookong A3X and other auto gyro/gps systems has technology dumbed down this hobby?

I have never flow 3D, but I can now imagine a time that I can with all of these autostabilization systems. Am I missing out on good cyclic touch flying?

I have been flying my DJI F550 on GPS mode mostly so when I landed and tried manual I realized just how much the Naza/GPS was actually creating the illusion of stable flight control on my part.

In manual mode its is twitchy as hell and playing around with the gain did give me some better control but I can see where I would want my radio to be setup completely differently with some Expo, pitch curves etc. if I was to continue to fly in manual mode.

I have read a few post on here were other state emphactically (I am not dissing on anyone) that they only use the Manual mode for GPS Compass calibration purposes then reset it to Fail Safe never to see Manual mode again.

Are Multi Roto Copters without some sort of autopilot inherently that difficult to fly?

 

[deluge2]

Has GPS dumbed down this hobby? I don't think so.

I'm sure at some point someone asked, "Have Flight Simulators dumbed down this hobby?" But I think it's now accepted that simulator training is a vital component of learning to fly rc craft whether one is learning basic skills or new 3D maneuvers.

What stabilization and GPS have done is add functionality and reduced significantly then steepness of the learning curve. The biggest difference is the move from Manual Mode to (in DJI FC terms) Attitude Mode. ATTI Mode greatly increases the craft stability, in part by limiting extremes of responsiveness to transmitter inputs and by moving to neutral orientation when sticks are centered. This has greatly expanded the number of functional Multirotor pilots (more dysfunctional ones, too). Like shill535, my progress has been much advanced by higher functioning autopilot features. But for the most part these functions are options and can be shut-off on demand. GPS ATTI Mode just adds position-based functions (position hold, home point, return to home, home lock flight mode).

There's considerable diversity in pilots and missions (casual flying, Acro flying, FPV, Aerial Photo/Video), that can all be met by today's MR platforms and flight controllers. The underlying complexities are all still there and in some ways, the added functionality has introduced added complexity. Manual mode pilots don't need to know how Course Lock differs from Home Lock.

As an example, many consider the Phantom platform to be a 'toy'. But look at the functionality it offers. I judge it by outcomes and capabilities. Suitably equipped and maintained and flown by a reasonably experienced pilot, it is capable of very high quality AP/AV. It serves as a good FPV craft. And it's just fun to fly, even for newbies. But if it gets too far away due to pilot error/wind etc., who wouldn't want the option to invoke GPS guided Home Lock flight mode? Especially if your $700 craft is carrying a $1300 payload (gimbal, cam, VTx, etc.).

Steve

I am a new pilot. I have flown nothing but helis for the past year. I crashed every single time I flew my 450 and would be done for a week or two until I could rebuild. I wasn't learning anything but rebuilding. I had a little quad that I loved and wanted a larger model. I decided on the DJI Phantom with GPS. Now I fly everyday and have learned more about orientation than I ever could have rebuilding all the time. Now I fly in manual mode most of the time and even do a little sport flying, but still fall back on Attitude mode when I get a little sideways. Because of the new technology I have become a dedicated heli pilot instead of a bored rebuilder that would have probably given up on the sport a long time ago. So I am a big fan of the technology. To the old pilots that came up without it, I'm sure it's boring but to a brand new pilot that really is interested in going to the field and learning the beauty of the sport, it is a wonderful tool to stay in the air long enough to learn to fly.

 

[bensid54]

Has GPS dumbed down this hobby? I don't think so.

I'm sure at some point someone asked, "Have Flight Simulators dumbed down this hobby?" But I think it's now accepted that simulator training is a vital component of learning to fly rc craft whether one is learning basic skills or new 3D maneuvers.

What stabilization and GPS have done is add functionality and reduced significantly then steepness of the learning curve. The biggest difference is the move from Manual Mode to (in DJI FC terms) Attitude Mode. ATTI Mode greatly increases the craft stability, in part by limiting extremes of responsiveness to transmitter inputs and by moving to neutral orientation when sticks are centered. This has greatly expanded the number of functional Multirotor pilots (more dysfunctional ones, too). Like shill535, my progress has been much advanced by higher functioning autopilot features. But for the most part these functions are options and can be shut-off on demand. GPS ATTI Mode just adds position-based functions (position hold, home point, return to home, home lock flight mode).

There's considerable diversity in pilots and missions (casual flying, Acro flying, FPV, Aerial Photo/Video), that can all be met by today's MR platforms and flight controllers. The underlying complexities are all still there and in some ways, the added functionality has introduced added complexity. Manual mode pilots don't need to know how Course Lock differs from Home Lock.

As an example, many consider the Phantom platform to be a 'toy'. But look at the functionality it offers. I judge it by outcomes and capabilities. Suitably equipped and maintained and flown by a reasonably experienced pilot, it is capable of very high quality AP/AV. It serves as a good FPV craft. And it's just fun to fly, even for newbies. But if it gets too far away due to pilot error/wind etc., who wouldn't want the option to invoke GPS guided Home Lock flight mode? Especially if your $700 craft is carrying a $1300 payload (gimbal, cam, VTx, etc.).

Steve

This makes sense. As far as helis go I would have had a lot steeper learning curve when it comes to quads if I had not gone there first. I will say I had one heli out of about eight that was not a problem for the whole summer one year.