Gunters new octocopter build

Gunter

Draganflyer X4

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Gunter

Draganflyer X4
Nice!

What is the weight of one aluminium boom? And, where did you order those black spacers from?

OVDT, not sure of the weight as it won't even register on my digital scales (people scales that is!) but it is extremely light. I can't see them being much heavier than the Droidworx booms, probably the same weight.

Black spacers (boom clamps) I ordered from motors and rotors, part number MA127-19, Razor 600E rear boom clamps, £4.99 for 1 set (total 4 halves) Also, the one pair has a little ridge so that the boom can't go all the way through...it stops when it's almost at the end.
 

Borneoben

Member
Hey Gunter Nice project i will watch with interest.

Is that SketchUp you are using for 3D modeling? It looks like it from the images.

If so, I am also a SU lover!! Its great, so quick to model new things in.
I am currently desiging a APV ship in SU.

Check out my thread here

Cheers

Ben
 

Gunter

Draganflyer X4
Hey Gunter Nice project i will watch with interest.

Is that SketchUp you are using for 3D modeling? It looks like it from the images.

If so, I am also a SU lover!! Its great, so quick to model new things in.
I am currently desiging a APV ship in SU.

Check out my thread here

Cheers

Ben

Ben, I use Autocad 3d modelling (I render the images using the monochrome preset), I work with it all the time so I can do it in my sleep. I have used Sketchup before, but not that much. It's also easier for me to then output a DXF file for laser cutting.

I did see your thread, looks good!

I have now decided to go with a hexa setup. The temptation of having the camera stabilisation of the WKM controller is too much. If I use 8 channels for the heli then I don't have any spare for camera stabilisation, so I will now be changing my design!

Gunter.
 

Borneoben

Member
Wow your monochrome render looks just like teh SketchUp default style!

I use AutoCAD 2d for all the production drawings.

Yeah I am also seriously considering the WKM as well. Maybe in a couple months time when they have sorted out a few of the minor issues.
And when the Hobby Tokens have been restocked!

Cheers

Ben
 

Gunter

Draganflyer X4
Wow your monochrome render looks just like teh SketchUp default style!

I use AutoCAD 2d for all the production drawings.

Yeah I am also seriously considering the WKM as well. Maybe in a couple months time when they have sorted out a few of the minor issues.
And when the Hobby Tokens have been restocked!

Cheers

Ben

Ben, you didn't live anywhere near Stroud did you?? Just wondering.
 

Gunter

Draganflyer X4
I decided after a bit of deliberation that I would change the octo to a hexa. This means that I can use the last 2 channels on the WKM to stabilise the camera mount...quite important for me, as I plan to do lots of videos...a few hours design work later and it's almost ready to go to the laser cutters :)

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Macsgrafs

Active Member
Gunter, Nice build, but 1 small problem. I was told to have the wires from the ESC's to the motor short & make the battery to ESAC longer...hard to do if your travelling the full boom length with motor wires back to the ESC's? But that's only what I've been told ;)

Ross
 

ovdt

Member
Hey Gunter,

I think you should stabilize the Lipo holders by connecting the free ends to the small booms. Otherwise, they will create oscillations and effect the flight. And with this design, for perfect CoG you have to plugin two batteries, always.

So I'd recommend you to put the main batteries underneath the center plates. But, your Lio holders would be great for plugging extra small batteries for FPV gear /servos.

Adding an extra screw the the boom clamps for stabilization is brilliant and is a must. I've designed nearly the same mounting system. See here:

View attachment 994

I didn't drill the hole on the booms yet, so I didn't put the third screw in.

With this design, I can easily convert to coaxial setup such as Y6 or X8.

Just my 2 cents :)
 

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ovdt

Member
BTW,

I'm using 40 cm long aluminium booms (OD: 16mm, 1 mm wall thickness. And it weights around 45 grams. My CFK booms on Droidworx frame(355 mm) weights 36 grams.

You're right, it doesn't add much to the total weight of the craft.
 
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Gunter

Draganflyer X4
Gunter, Nice build, but 1 small problem. I was told to have the wires from the ESC's to the motor short & make the battery to ESAC longer...hard to do if your travelling the full boom length with motor wires back to the ESC's? But that's only what I've been told ;)

Ross

Ross, thanks for the comments. I'm going to just try and see how it works with the esc's in the main frame. I see where you're coming from, but I hate seeing them cable tied to the booms - I'd rather have a nice clean outside!
 

Gunter

Draganflyer X4
OVDT, I did initially draw the batteries under the centre plate, but what I found is that I had to make the lower mount a lot deeper, so that the battery didn't interfere with the 2 tubes for the camera mount. I know what you mean about the vibrations - I think what I might do is have 2 different lower plates made so I can try both methods.
 

Stacky

Member
Ross, have you got that the right way round? I was told the wires from the esc to the power supply need to be as short as possible and the wires from the motors to the esc's can be the longer ones.
Gunter, Nice build, but 1 small problem. I was told to have the wires from the ESC's to the motor short & make the battery to ESAC longer...hard to do if your travelling the full boom length with motor wires back to the ESC's? But that's only what I've been told ;)

Ross
 

Borneoben

Member
Ben, you didn't live anywhere near Stroud did you?? Just wondering.

Ha! Funny you should say that but yes!

I grew up in that area all around Stroud but never in Stroud itself. My Dad still lives in a village outside Stonehouse Called Leonard Stanley.
I used o live in Painswick and Oakridge Lynch right in top of the Stroud Valleys.
Beautiful part of the UK, During our two week summer anyway!

So are you from around there?

Cheers
Ben
 

Borneoben

Member
Ross, have you got that the right way round? I was told the wires from the esc to the power supply need to be as short as possible and the wires from the motors to the esc's can be the longer ones.

I was also under the impression that you should keep the DC wires as short as poss and the AC wires could be longer. Something to do with much less voltage loss over longer distances with AC. But that was remembered from schooldays

However i could see the benefits of keeping the esc close to the motor under the propwash. would be great for cooling.

Cheers

Ben
 

jes1111

Active Member
Looking good!

I've researched this "ESC wires" issue as thoroughly as possible. Trouble is, of course, that you can find reasoned, scientific arguments both ways! However, after weighing all the evidence, my conclusion is to keep battery > ESC short and ESC > motor can be lengthened to suit your frame.

I, too, detest the idea of strapping the ESCs to arms. It looks ugly, plus they're vulnerable to damage and subject to all the vibration that's travelling through that arm. I also don't go with the argument that they need to be cooled by the propwash. If they need that much cooling then they're either under-rated for the job or something else is wrong (like the timing). The best advice I've seen on ESC sizing (by a dealer who has to field warranty claims for burned out ESCs) is to over-spec by 50%, i.e. if eCalc says your full-throttle draw will be 37A, fit 60A ESCs - not 40A units.

Of course the ESCs still need airflow, so certainly don't put them inside a box (which I've seen done). If you do have a minor heat issue and/or want more peace of my mind over their health and longevity, fit each one with one of those miniature fans used on PC motherboards - they weigh just a couple of grams.

One thing I believe you should NEVER do (on anything but the small fun-flyer types) is use the BEC on the ESC. They're often linear BECs on the cheaper ESCs (which simply drop voltage by using resistance and therefore generating heat), and since you'd only be using the BEC on one out of your 4, 6 or 8 ESCs that ESC will run hotter than the others - not a good design choice. A good quality switching BEC can supply all the necessary low voltage to your FC, Rx, servos, etc.
 

BorneoBen, you are correct in that longer conductors mean greater electrical resistance and an effect(s) on signals when they arrive at their destination(s) but at these amplitudes with these size of conductors it really isn't too much of a problem. As for the closeness of the ESC to the Hub rather than the motor is where the design balance is...near the hub,unwashed heat and all the issues that go with that...near the motor, washed heat but problems with excess cables, etc.. If the cables (conductors) are carrying very low amplitude signals...eg data...then the length of the cables could be a problem which is why we would want to keep these types of cables to a minimum in length and if posible screened from external influences.
 

Gunter

Draganflyer X4
So are you from around there?

Cheers
Ben

Ben, my sister lives in Stroud and we have friends in Nailsworth. That area is lovely, I wish it wasn't so far away from my work, otherwise we would have moved there!


Regarding the ESC issue, lots of people keep them off the arms and under the canopy without a problem, so hopefully it will be okay. Also, they are rated at almost double what the motor needs, so happy about that :)

Thanks, Gunter.
 

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