European Laws

A

aldorellibus

Member
Hello everyone!
As more and more customers are requesting aerial services I started wondering where in Europe I can actually work.
My company is Swiss and as far as I know in Switzerland and Italy there are no regulations for flying multicopters, what about in other european countries?

I heard the Netherlands, UK and Ireland need some kind of licensing. What is exactly and how could I get the licence?

Thanks!!!
 

BorisS

BorisS

Drone Enthusiast
Can tell you one thing at the moment for Austria its looking were bad. If things go through the way as planned by the Austrocontrol, than there is no more private or commercial aerial photography next year. No only that they want you to have a pilot license, they will check up technically on you multi rotor and allow it our not. At the moment though the technical features they want redundancy etc, are not given by any systems in the market at the level we are talking about !

Boris
 

A

aldorellibus

Member
BorisS said:
Can tell you one thing at the moment for Austria its looking were bad. If things go through the way as planned by the Austrocontrol, than there is no more private or commercial aerial photography next year. No only that they want you to have a pilot license, they will check up technically on you multi rotor and allow it our not. At the moment though the technical features they want redundancy etc, are not given by any systems in the market at the level we are talking about !

Boris
Click to expand...

Wow... Is that law already effective? If not when will it be? 100% sure?
 

BorisS

BorisS

Drone Enthusiast
with the 1.1.2014 or 14.1.2014 not sure. The law will differ in small parts but thats more or less it ! It not only the law but allows the interpretation of the Austrocontrol etc. It will be interesting what happens over the next couple years in the rest of Europe !
 

BorisS

BorisS

Drone Enthusiast
If you speak german: more details in this:



Bezüglich des neuen Luftfahrt Gesetzes §24c.-24l.http://www.ris.bka.gv.at/Dokumente/BgblAuth/BGBLA_2013_I_108/BGBLA_2013_I_108.pdfZusätzlich zu diesem Gesetzes gab es am 25.11.2013 in der Austro Control GmbH eine Besprechung.Laut Gesetzestext hat die Austro Control GmbH die macht Durchführungsbestimmungen zu erlassen um den Luftraum „ sicher“ zu machen.Zitat: Die Austro Control GmbH oder eine auf Grund einer Übertragung gemäß § 140b zuständigen Behörde hat unter Bedachtnahme des öffentlichen Interesses der Sicherheit der Luftfahrt mit Lufttüchtigkeitshinweis gemäß §24h festzulegen, welche Voraussetzungen für die Ausstellung einer Bescheinigung im Sinne der Z1 zu erfüllen sind.Viele Firmen haben nach der Bekanntgabe des Gesetzestextes gebeten dass nicht nur die Austro Control GmbH sondern ein Modellflug Club in Zusammenarbeite mit der Austro Control GmbH diese Durchführungsbestimmungen gemeinsam gemacht werden. Dieser Bitte wurde nicht nachgekommen somit wurde folgende abstrakte Durchführungsbestimmungen bei der Besprechung am 25.11.2014 bekannt gegeben:Zuzüglich der Flugklassen wird es sogenannte Einsatzgebiete geben die bestimmte Flugzonen behandeln. Einsatzgebiete 1 – 4. Die Durchführungsbestimmungen der Einsatzgebiete1-2 sind für Österreich irrelevant, da diese Einsatzgebiete soweit abgeschieden sind, dass dort niemand Luftaufnahmen praktizieren wird. Einsatzgebiete 3 beinhalten, dass nur über unbewohntes Gebiet geflogen werden darf, und in diesem Gebiet darf sich auch nur der Pilot selbst befinden. Kategorie 4 ist besiedeltes Gebiet - sprich Ortschafften, Veranstaltungen oder Filmsets - alles wo sich Menschen aufhalten und es Zivilisation gibt.Somit kommt man zum Ergebnis, dass eigentlich für 99% der Piloten (Klasse 1), die filmen und fotografieren nur das Einsatzgebiet 4 in Frage kommt .Um in den Einsatzgebieten 4 fliegen zu dürfen, müssen folgende Bedingungen erfüllt werden.Der Pilot der Klasse 1 muss eine theoretische Flugpilotenprüfung machen. Das Ausmaß dieser Prüfung ist noch nicht bekannt. Die Prüfung des PPLA (Privatpilotenlizenz) wird anerkannt. Weiteres muss eine fliegermedizinische Untersuchung durchgeführt werden. Es folgt eine praktische Flugprüfung unter Aufsicht der Austro Control GmbH.Abnahme des Fluggerätes:Jedes Fluggerät muss von der Austro Control GmbH technisch abgenommen werden. Bei dieser Abnahme wird die Ausfallredundanz überprüft. - Redundanz der Flugkontrolle- Überprüfung der Betriebsbedingungen in Österreich: Überprüfung bei 40 Grad Hitze und bei starkem Regen, ob nirgends ein Bauteile zu heiß wird oder Wasser dazu kommt.- Redundante Stromzufuhr für das Funksystem.- Video Übertragungsüberprüfung. - Elektromagnetische Einflüsse und vieles mehrViele dieser technischen Anforderungen sind bis dato nicht am freien Markt zu kaufen und sind Spezialanfertigungen, die so zu sagen noch erfunden werden müssen, weil sie bis dato einfach noch nicht gebraucht wurden.Diese technische Abnahme soll laut Schätzungen der Austro Control GmbH 70€ pro halber Stunde kosten. Nach der Frage der Dauer der Überprüfung wurde keine Antwort gegeben. Eine Schätzung der Zuhörer von der Sitzung vor 14 Tagen wurde belächelt und als sehr sportlich bezeichnet man müsse sicherlich mit einer längeren Zeit rechnen (1 Monat so um den Daumen). Somit sind Kosten in einem Ausmaß zu erwarten, die nicht in der Relation der Einnahmen in dieser Branche stehen. Zusätzlich muss man in dem Einsatzgebieten 3 und 4 vor jedem Auftrag eine technische Zwischenprüfung ablegen die abermals Zeit und 270€ in Anspruch nimmt.Diese Durchführungsbestimmungen sind zum größten Teil nicht realisierbar, außer man will die Branche der Luftfotografie und Luftfilmer verbieten.Die Kosten und Aufwände dieser Prüfungen und technischen Abnahmen stehen in keinerlei Relationen zu den Verdiensten in dieser Branche.Wenn diese Durchführungsbestimmungen so veröffentlicht werden, dann wird diese Branche in Österreich aussterben. Die Folge wird sein, dass Firmen, die filmen und fotografieren ins Ausland ausweichen, und vor allem einheimische Firmen werden ihr Kapital nicht an Österreichische Piloten weiter geben sondern diese Art von Aufnahmen an Firmen im Ausland weiter geben.​
 

PeteDee

PeteDee

Mr take no prisoners!
LOL, and must be checked to fly in heavy rain and only fly in uninhabited areas.


Pete
 


ChrisViperM

ChrisViperM

Active Member
The upcoming law in Austria is a perfect mirror of our politicians, which must be by far the most stupid politicians world wide....not one of them could tell the front or the back of a "drone". There is not one single law created in the last 10 years - regardless in which field - which does make any sense at all......all we got from these dumb arses is that everything is getting more and more complicated, up to an extend, that not even seasonded judges sometimes understand what the meaning of some of the new laws mean. On top of it, Austria has developed a habbit of fulfilling EU guidlines, even before they have been written down by the EU parliament. If someone farts in Brussels, we have a new law in Austria......and the EU has proven over and over again what a waste deposit full of dirtbags they are themselves.

But apart of the hopeless situation in Austria, within a few years the whole Aerial business will be reguated by the EU anyways.....which means useless and unpractical laws for all European countries.

http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/aerospace/uas/

Rant over and out.....


Chris
 

A

aldorellibus

Member
ChrisViperM said:
The upcoming law in Austria is a perfect mirror of our politicians, which must be by far the most stupid politicians world wide....not one of them could tell the front or the back of a "drone". There is not one single law created in the last 10 years - regardless in which field - which does make any sense at all......all we got from these dumb arses is that everything is getting more and more complicated, up to an extend, that not even seasonded judges sometimes understand what the meaning of some of the new laws mean. On top of it, Austria has developed a habbit of fulfilling EU guidlines, even before they have been written down by the EU parliament. If someone farts in Brussels, we have a new law in Austria......and the EU has proven over and over again what a waste deposit full of dirtbags they are themselves.

But apart of the hopeless situation in Austria, within a few years the whole Aerial business will be reguated by the EU anyways.....which means useless and unpractical laws for all European countries.

http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/aerospace/uas/

Rant over and out.....


Chris
Click to expand...

Interesting Chris, I haven't read it yet, does it say there will be one European law or somehow the way to be "certified" multicopter operator?

Anyways, I think a little regulations are essential, first of all for public safety and second of all to "save" the professional market. You guys don't agree?
 

BorisS

BorisS

Drone Enthusiast
aldorellibus said:
Interesting Chris, I haven't read it yet, does it say there will be one European law or somehow the way to be "certified" multicopter operator?

Anyways, I think a little regulations are essential, first of all for public safety and second of all to "save" the professional market. You guys don't agree?
Click to expand...

Yes in general regulations can be a good thing. If i think of the s..t some of the phantom owners perform here in vienna, no experience only flying gps mode etc. and than taking it and fly it in the inner city it scares me and its dangerous to the whole industry ! But if it goes as far as the laws in Austria and the Austrocontrol interpretation there wont be a professional market for multirotors anymore !

Boris
 



Lanzar

Lanzar

Member
Uk and France and now austia. But guys do not forget that this rules apply to resident companies only. For non resident companies there is probably a gap since for them there is international law which is valid. THere is no way to track the laws or amendmants that each coutry does. THis is why air trafic rules are worldwide and not local. Planes cant have different laws in different countries.

I would like to know how this aplies to UAV and all. THis is taking too long and it looks like EU is also waiting for USA to do it first and then just copy it.

Same as CAA vs Trapy. (they will loose the lawsuit and after that second USA will be opened to phantom lovers up to profesionals)

Let us see how this goes.

I got some inside info that austia will not be that complicated. THe 7kg class will be easy to get. But big kopters for film industry will have ???'. I need to learn german.
 


Carapau

Carapau

Tek care, lambs ont road, MRF Moderator
'But guys do not forget that this rules apply to resident companies only.'

Sorry, but this is absolutely not the case. If you are caught flying for gain in the UK without the relevant quals you are in trouble. End of story.
 

G

Gary Mortimer

Member
Quite right Carapau, there are big fines and jail time in prospect for those stepping out of line in France as a direct result of some FPV flights a couple of years ago. The UK is scaling up for PPL(U) and CPL(U) but that's a little way off. If you had a licenced company the UK and you found out somebody had come in and taken some of your cake you might well complain.
 

Lanzar

Lanzar

Member
Gary Mortimer said:
Quite right Carapau, there are big fines and jail time in prospect for those stepping out of line in France as a direct result of some FPV flights a couple of years ago. The UK is scaling up for PPL(U) and CPL(U) but that's a little way off. If you had a licenced company the UK and you found out somebody had come in and taken some of your cake you might well complain.
Click to expand...

All i will say is LOL. Sorry but i had to. I know off 2 companies that are not registered in france and they are flying for money there at least 2 times per month. THey even had some police problems but since they were not French residents they were released after 2h with the production lawyer came and took the case. This is the main problem. Same aplies for UK I am positive. THis is why i am for EU rule in compliance with CAA and all. Then we would only need 1 licence and could have more places that could teach and where you could pass them. Why would i bother to do UK and France one if we will shoot there maybe 1 time. I was talkig wih the UK guys but at the end i got the feelig that it is usseless trying to implemnt this in work.

I have seen english guys in austria on the same shoot we were only they were schduled 1 day before us and they did it when we could also. But we also did our part on the next day. So is it fair that we complain about them comming and take our bussiness.OFC not. It is who is better and cheaper. Healthy competition. It should not be who passed some local exam or not. IF my driver license is valid in EU so should my flying licence be. Would be funny to come to UK with car and then you would need a local to drive you arround since you are not licenced to drive a car on UK cause they drive on oposite side than we do.
THere are sill many dangerus kopters flying in our skies and until pilots lealize that this is a killer machine nothin will change.

Like that story about the guy and the temse river. If you read official report and you have some knaulege you will laugh and that the explaation passed and they were happy with it.
 

Carapau

Carapau

Tek care, lambs ont road, MRF Moderator
All i will say is LOL. Sorry but i had to. I know off 2 companies that are not registered in france and they are flying for money there at least 2 times per month.
Click to expand...

But as you say they are flying in France and not the UK- the other thing is that just because they are flying often, doesn't mean to say that it isn't illegal. Authorities are largely pretty ignorant of UAV laws at the moment so the local police may have seen these guys operating but thought it quite legitimate. In the UK, without 'permission to conduct aerial work' from the CAA you are in deep trouble if you get caught. However let's not argue about that as such because I am fully behind you with regards to a European wide acceptance of various licenses, that just makes sense on every level as you say.

IF my driver license is valid in EU so should my flying licence be. Would be funny to come to UK with car and then you would need a local to drive you arround since you are not licenced to drive a car on UK cause they drive on oposite side than we do.
Click to expand...

The driving license is valid throughout Europe because driving is well understood and the laws have had time to mature etc etc. UAV legislation is in its infancy but the law today is the law today. I am pretty sure that within the next couple of years we will have a more joined up pan European acceptance.
 

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