Does having more motors make for a smoother yaw?

[DucktileMedia]

I have an X8 with hoverfly pro and a Y6 with Wookong. because the two have different flight controllers it is hard to tell what my problem is due to. The issue is the yaw is borderline erratic. it always has been on the wookong but i dont know if it is because I am using the Y6 configuration. Theoretically speaking, wouldnt having more props mean there is less change required to yaw the craft? My hoverfly is very smooth all around, although if you do yaw it quickly it will jump in altitude a little. but the wookong is horrible! it ruins almost 50% of my footage. Back on 5.06 the heli would spin to the right more than 90 degrees without giving it input. now I am on 5.14a and it does this much much less. If i turn the gains up it gets worse, if turn the gains down it gets sloppy. I cant find a balance that i am happy with. Any Y6 owners care to chime in? Bart mentioned that the coaxial setup might be very sensitive to the arms being twisted at all. but when there is NO wind it doesnt do any of this. This makes me think it has more to do with the controller than the configuration. perhaps I need to put a Hoverfly pro on it and see if the problem is still there.

 

[tahoelight]

My y6 with HFP Has very smooth Yaw. Same as my X8 with HFP. I do have some issue with altitude change when yawing, but that seems to depend on how it is tuned and varies each firmware releases. (although it may have more to do with vibration issues than software). I am again rebuilding both

 

[FerdinandK]

@IrisAerial
Do you have mixed props up and down (this is what you should do)?
If you take back the Basic Nick/Roll Gains, you give Yaw more "space" to operate, the same is valid for the vertical gain. On all of my copters I have yaw and vertical at 130/150.

Another point is of course, that accuracy you would like to have on yaw, that might be subjective, would help if you can post a video of the issue.

best regards

Ferdinand

 

[DucktileMedia]

here's a video of a few of the drastic yaws I have had over the last 6 months. The first video of the golf course is to show the best possible output from the Y6 i have. It is 0 mph. The rest are all shots where I am not touching the rudder at all! At times I might have tried to go with the yaw error but I never initiated this. I am thinking there is an electrical/rfi issue more than a mechanical issue as the problem is erratic. Although if it gets hit with any wind at all it does this every time.

 

[FerdinandK]

I see, that is pretty bad. If you do not have already, I would mix CCW and CW that you have both types on top (and both types on bottom), but if the motors are leveled, and you already did work on the gains I have no idea.

Never experienced such behavior on my copters. Here is a flight with my X12 (which is a Y6Rev for the Naza). In the first 90sec I just push nick forward and go straight ahead (with some small course corrections).
https://vimeo.com/47266306
To me this feels like yaw is really "locked in" when flying.

My next copters is a small Y6 and a X8, then I will see if I get caught up by similar issues.

best regards

Ferdinand

 

[DucktileMedia]

It cant possibly the Y6 itself. I am running very common components and I know there are several guys with the same things that have no issues like this. I am running Graupner 11' top/bottom. It is either a faulty WKM, RFI in my wiring harness somewhere, or gains are off. The arms have been squared up to a flat table top. It's more of a glitch than anything. Im gonna put the Hoverfly pro on it and I bet all my problems will magically disappear.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

It cant possibly the Y6 itself. I am running very common components and I know there are several guys with the same things that have no issues like this. I am running Graupner 11' top/bottom. It is either a faulty WKM, RFI in my wiring harness somewhere, or gains are off. The arms have been squared up to a flat table top. It's more of a glitch than anything. Im gonna put the Hoverfly pro on it and I bet all my problems will magically disappear.

How do you have your motor layout? Do you have it so that all the top props are CW, and all bottoms are CCW?

How much power do you have in reserve? Do you need close to 80% throttle to hover?

Quads have a problem that is exactly like you are showing. The problem occurs when the controls "saturated". If the hover throttle, plus the stabilization throttle on a given motor result in 100%, you will start to lose control of the yaw. I actually just fixed this last week in our code, but no idea what DJI is doing with that bit. Also, I don't see how this problem could affect a Y6, I'd have to think about it more...

But basically, there is a physical basis for these control problems, it's up to the coders to fix it, and we have no idea what they have going on in these closed source systems.

At the end of the day, you should not have these problems if everything is done right. This is not an insurmountable problem.

 

[RTRyder]

At the end of the day, you should not have these problems if everything is done right. This is not an insurmountable problem.

I agree. When I had my first WKM setup as a Y6 I had none of the problems I see in the video, it was rock solid on all axis and the only reason I don't still fly it is because all of the electronics now reside on my Cinestar 6. On the other hand the H/F Pro I currently have setup on my Droidworx AD6 weaves and wobbles like a drunken sailor after its been in the air for a couple minutes, does a yaw dance that is absolutely scary and that after doing an upgrade to the latest firmware and then performing all the calibrations by the book. Unfortunately there aren't enough adjustments in the H/F software to try and get it to behave and the limited changes that can be made with gains on the TX do nothing to cure it so the AD6 will probably be getting swapped over to the YS-X6 controller.

Ken

 

[FerdinandK]

@RTRyder,

I do not know anything on the HFP, but up to my experience you can skip the "YS-X6" part, especially when you have flown a WKM before.

best regards

Ferdinand

 

[RTRyder]

@RTRyder,

I do not know anything on the HFP, but up to my experience you can skip the "YS-X6" part, especially when you have flown a WKM before.

best regards

Ferdinand

Can't say I fully agree, I currently have the WKM on a Cinestar 6 and I'm quite happy with the way it flys, I tried MK and the YS on it as well and the best setup so far has been the WKM. The AD6 will be the third frame I've had the YS on, it does fly well when properly setup and the firmware is far more "tunable" than the any of the others with the exception of MK which may be a bit too tuneable at this point...

In terms of how well the features work I'd rate the WKM and YS very close to each other for autolevel, altitude hold, GPS position hold, and overall GPS functionality, they are by far the most solid performers of all the flight controllers on the market followed by the DJI Naza, then the MK, and in last place the Hoverfly Pro. This isn't hearsay but actual hands-on flying experience, I own at least one example of each of those flight controllers and several of some of them.

Ken

 

[DucktileMedia]

Ken it is clear that you have a lemon HFP. You have consistently been one of the VERY few people to have problems with it. I know you know what you are doing and dont believe for second the errors are on your part but many many others including myself have had the opposite experience. If anything the wookong has been more erratic than anything I have ever flown. but again, maybe I got a weird board or something. I have never seen the wookong fly in wind like the HFP does. The wookong tries so hard to achieve an absolute position that it jitters where the HFP never really jerks around, it is very very solid. I would hope someday you give them another shot. maybe they can take your board back and swap it for a new one? I think that DJI makes good stuff but I really like getting used to one system and learning it well. having 2 or more systems is borderline dangerous for me as I have to pre-flight in my mind all the controls as they are different on the TX.

Back to the issues I am having though, I am more inclined to think my issues are RFI related. It is hard to tell if it is wind that does it or just randomly comes on. I rarely have a dead calm day here so I relate it to wind gusts. It ALWAYS jerks in yaw to the right. I dont think this means much but it is an observation.

As for prop direction, they are whatever DJI gives you for a Y6, I dont think you can change this. The fact that so many others have this exact combo of components makes me think it is something small like a power wire somewhere.

800mm Y6
Avrotos
Graupner 11x5's
AV130
Nex5n
DJI WKM
8000 4s


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