Discussion Canadian Airspace Extending into US Airspace?

[klesika]

I was wondering if Canadian Airspace can extend into US airspace?

Where I want to fly is class G US airspace near the Canadian border. I am legal to fly according to the FAA. But right over the border in Canada there are a number of Heliports. The new Canadian regulations say that there is a no fly zone of a minimum 9km radius surrounding all airports, heliports, and sea plane bases. Where I want to fly is within 9km of the Canadian heliport but it is in the US. So according to Canadian rules I am flying illegally.

Are there any others who have run into this and if so, does this have any impact on legally flying near the border of Canada?

Thanks!


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[ChrisRL]

Not an issue.
If you're in the USA (i.e. not flying over Canada) then the airspace, by definition, is under FAA jurisdiction, and not under CAA rules.
Same applies to Mexico, flying down south.
The national airspace goes straight up from the border, vertically. Same with private property, national parks etc.
Usually there's restricted airspace near a border anyway, so you can't fly there in anything, drone, blimp, jet, whatever, with clearance first.

BTW the letter of the law says that even though you cannot fly over a national park, for instance, the roadways that border it and their sidewalks are okay to fly (provided you're not too close to airports, heliports, etc, as usual), so you can fly straight up from a road and look into a park. It's just that if you have a motor failure and lose the drone, it should fall outside the park borderline. That's the theory and the spirit of the law, so it's a safety thing, mainly.

Note that the FAA has recently included a 400ft lateral restriction to 133 military sites around the nation, in order to stop us from employing that "next-to-OK" rule to sneak peeks into them. Obviously not a good thing.

HTH

 

[ChrisRL]

Oh, one more thing. The FA- number from our drone registrations allows for US flight only. If you're going to apply to fly at or over the border (which you can do, in which case you must abide by the destination nation's airspace regulations once you're in their airspace), you have to register your drone the old-fashioned way, off line and with paper, and get a regular aircraft N- number (same series as the full-sized aircraft) issued, at which time you can file an international flight plan, etc., like a regular aircraft. If they give you overflight permission, that is.

Also if you are planning on working your drone overseas, then an N- number is also a must, since for international registration purposes a drone is the same as a helicopter or small plane - you can stick it inside a bigger plane, transport it to another country, then fly it there, using the N- number registration, and local airspace permissions.

 

[JCLs]

BTW the letter of the law says that even though you cannot fly over a national park, for instance, the roadways that border it and their sidewalks are okay to fly (provided you're not too close to airports, heliports, etc, as usual), so you can fly straight up from a road and look into a park. It's just that if you have a motor failure and lose the drone, it should fall outside the park borderline. That's the theory and the spirit of the law, so it's a safety thing, mainly.

HTH

I have read that one cannot take off or land in any National Park. One can take off from just adjacent to the park and fly over it as the Parks supposedly cannot control the airspace over the park without FAA support? Now you seem to be saying you can take off from a road inside the park and are at risk for landing outside boundaries of the road right-of-way?

Am going to be traveling this summer in Colorado and Wyoming and intend to shoot a lot of video and pics and am having problems finding good references to appropriate regulations.


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[klesika]

Not an issue.
If you're in the USA (i.e. not flying over Canada) then the airspace, by definition, is under FAA jurisdiction, and not under CAA rules.
Same applies to Mexico, flying down south.
The national airspace goes straight up from the border, vertically. Same with private property, national parks etc.
Usually there's restricted airspace near a border anyway, so you can't fly there in anything, drone, blimp, jet, whatever, with clearance first.

BTW the letter of the law says that even though you cannot fly over a national park, for instance, the roadways that border it and their sidewalks are okay to fly (provided you're not too close to airports, heliports, etc, as usual), so you can fly straight up from a road and look into a park. It's just that if you have a motor failure and lose the drone, it should fall outside the park borderline. That's the theory and the spirit of the law, so it's a safety thing, mainly.

Note that the FAA has recently included a 400ft lateral restriction to 133 military sites around the nation, in order to stop us from employing that "next-to-OK" rule to sneak peeks into them. Obviously not a good thing.

HTH

Thanks for the input Chris! Here is an image of what prompted my question.

This map shows the Canadian heliport no fly zone extending into the US airspace. I'm guessing it's just a mapping error or oversight.



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[ChrisRL]

JCLs: Even though a public road inside a park area is, legally speaking, legal for flying over, it would very much depend on what property that road lies on, and, as you have said, whether or not it's possible to emergency/hard land outside the park area.
If I were flying a job there, I would def check with the sheriff and/or rangers for their okay first.
Rec piloting is slightly different, but the safety aspects are the same, I'd say.

 

[ChrisRL]

Klesica, hi
I think that's just a computer deal for ya, but then again, I think the software people are more concerned with safety than legality. However, I'm double-checking that as a legal issue as I type.

Ultimately, it's not wise to fly close to a heliport, no matter where it's located. One can't be sure that any flights leaving or arriving aren't crossing the border.

Do you possess and use an air band radio? I'd use the local CTAF to avoid potential issues, in this instance, if the heliport were a small local one. If a major / international one with customs facilities, then call them up and get them to give you their local freq. or telephone number for approach / area control so you can advise someone to watch out for your flight, and to listen for others in the air.

 

[ChrisRL]

Okay, so I double-checked.

If you're flying for recreational purposes, you'll have to abide by the 5-mile rule, regardless of nationality, that's just safety issues for you.

If you're operating commercially, then you need to abide by the airspace rules. i.e. if that heliport is in Class G airspace, then you can fly there, of course yielding right-of-way to all other aircraft in the area.

Of course, Canada has its own rules for drone flying, but as long as you haven't crossed the border, you're in FAA airspace, and the two situations above apply to you.

HTH
Best
Chris

 

[klesika]

Okay, so I double-checked.

If you're flying for recreational purposes, you'll have to abide by the 5-mile rule, regardless of nationality, that's just safety issues for you.

If you're operating commercially, then you need to abide by the airspace rules. i.e. if that heliport is in Class G airspace, then you can fly there, of course yielding right-of-way to all other aircraft in the area.

Of course, Canada has its own rules for drone flying, but as long as you haven't crossed the border, you're in FAA airspace, and the two situations above apply to you.

HTH
Best
Chris

Awesome! Thanks a ton for clearing that up for me and for all the additional advice. It's greatly appreciated!


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[ChrisRL]

You're welcome! Always glad to be able to help out!

 

[777Ben]

Airspace ends at the border. The "5 mile" rule refers to class D airspace (or equivalent distance in class B or C airspace). Generally, class D airspace is a 5 statute mile radius from an airport with an operating control tower and up to approx 2500' AGL. But it is not always a 5 mi circle. Some are rectangular (KFUL airport). Many along the border are similar-circular because their airspace AND traffic patterns stop at the border (look at El Paso's class C airspace). The 5 mile rule is for tower notification of model operations only. It is not a no-fly zone.

In short, you will not be in Canadian airspace when flying on the USA side of the border even when the Canadian airport is close by. Their airspace ends at the border and their normal traffic patterns will keep planes out of US airspace until they are under US air traffic control (basically at an altitude that won't be a problem for us). Bottom line: fly safe and use common sense.

Join the AMA. They have good guidance that complies with a FAA regs on flying near airports. And yes, you can fly within 5 mi of an airport. Just write a letter to the tower controllers of your planned location. My R/C modeling club (within 5 mi and in class C airspace) has a letter on file with a nearby large airport, KSNA. Note that you do not need their permission. You need only to notify them. That does not mean you can fly right at the end of the runway. You must remain well clear of aircraft. Refer to the AMA (Academy of Model Aeronautics) rules. They are recognized by the FAA.

Finally, swing by an airport flight school and see if there can spare an outdated sectional chart (free is good). It'll show where the local airports are and the types of airspace. You're going to need to learn that anyway if you plan on getting your Part 107 license. You can also buy charts online. Uncontrolled airfields (no tower) should be treated the same as class D airspace, except that there is no FAA facility (tower) to inform.

Spotters are generally required when near an airport. Fly safe and always use common sense.

The above info is from memory. Refer to AMA and Part 107 for specifics.