British MR fliers UNITE

[Droider]

BH!

I have just arrived back in the UK to find a multitude of pm's on this. ~Also loads of posts. Please give me a few hours to digest everything and get back..

Bart your in!

Ross.. I know where you are coming from but the rules are the rules.. IT SUCKS but unless some one else stands up to the CAA.... AND offers a credible alternative to the BNUC we are stuck with it.

So.. let me go read the rest

GREAT response thanks.. now I know there are guys out there who care where this rabbit hole goes!

Dave

 

[Bartman]

you know Dave, we could use a credible organization here as well. the RCAPA says it represents us but I find that hard to believe. The AMA has forsaken us, and the FAA may or may not have any regard for our needs when the rules are finally published.

 

[ZAxis]

Dave ... welcome back.

Mulling over things I think we should look at forming an organisation to specifically look after the needs of MR photographers/ videographers and those involved with remote sensing. This gets away from the type of users who focus on surveillance/ paramilitary applications. Anything that involves the creation of legal evidence requires an incredible amount of oversight and is best avoided.Leave them to BNUC.

andy

 

[J.T.]

Dave ... welcome back.

Mulling over things I think we should look at forming an organisation to specifically look after the needs of MR photographers/ videographers and those involved with remote sensing. This gets away from the type of users who focus on surveillance/ paramilitary applications. Anything that involves the creation of legal evidence requires an incredible amount of oversight and is best avoided.Leave them to BNUC.

andy

Yes, this makes a lot of sense IMO.

 

[Macsgrafs]

Guys, guys, guys...how can WE be shown to represent the UK MR community if we stick with the BNUC? The next group to come along would dump them like a hot potato & leave us in the weeds!
Dave I know you have paid out a huge sum already to the BNUC & wouldnt see it as fair if others got approval at a vastly lower price, but such is the price of progress my friend. To be honest a group that supports this blatant abuse wouldnt be a group for me. Come on guys we are better than this!

There is a book on the market by a woman called "Lioness", the book is called "So they say you've broken the law". It brings into question FOUNDATION EVIDENCE, namely the 2 things they cant prove in a courtroom.

1)Who has a higher claim over me than me?
2)Prove that acts apply to me?

The whole point is that acts are a victimless crime!!!!! A revenue collection device only. I really dont want to pay for something I know is Unlawful.

Surely with the great minds I see on this forum we can make our own tests & exams, that would satisfy the CAA?

Let's put things into perspective a bit here. Whats the most expensive MR on the market for public use?? A SJ8 or CS8...then add a quality cam gimbal...total price about £6000?
So if the BNUC want £1500...thats 25% of your MR!!!!! The top of the range Rolls Royce £300,000..now whats the cost of a driving test...£200?

I'm going to speak for myself here & say that Im financially challenged, all my MR materials were bought via barclaycard, which luckily for me I had a few good paying photography shoots that paid it back very quickly, but adding £1500 into the equation makes it impossible for people like myself to ever do commercial work.

All I know is if we all agree & pay BNUC prices, then we are only ever going to be controlled by a system thats designed to steal money from us. The first MR group to come along & not use BNUC, but there own exams/tests will see a massive influx of members & emerge as the premiere MR group in the UK...that's a fact of life we cant get away from, especially since this money slump isnt due to end until 2022! Just look at the UK FPV group run by Simon...they pay £15 insurance as regards the BMFA of £32!

I hope you guys can see some logic in what I'm saying, but maybe you cant
An easy answer would be to put up a poll with a £300 exam fee as maximum or the £1500 of the BNUC, would be intersting to see which group would poll most votes

Flack jacket & tin hat noe on & awaiting replies

Ross

 

[plingboot]

Good points Ross.

There's almost no chance of me paying for the BNUC exam at the current asking price. I totally support the idea of developing skills, responsibility and having an approved body certificate "one's" progress/competence, but it strikes me that their figure reflects a kind of top slicing at a level where folks are making proper money out of AP. The number of people who are going to be able to fork out that kind of money is probably going to remain very small.

There is quite clearly a number of equally valid strands to MR use covering everything from homebrew MR construction to top end RTF, to people who simply strap on a camera to record a flight, FPV, casual AP and top end pro AP.

At the moment this is still very much a build yourself interest and this encourages (IMHO) people who have to take time to get stuff built correctly, trawled forums and hopefully taken in much of the basic safety advice.

As more and more RTF MR's appear, it will become a hobby which can be casually undertaken without doing the hours of reading many of the existing pilots have. This is when we will start hearing more reports of dangerous flying in inappropriate places.

Whatever this develops into, it strikes me that a recognised and reasonably priced certification (£250-£300 doesn't sound unreasonable to me), along with some kind of 3rd party insurance would attract many more takers than the current offering. People should also be actively informed of this when buying too - maybe in the form of a flyer included with airframes, autopilots or rtf's.

It might also be worth thinking about merging the process with a forum, (which this forum evolves into?). This way certification isn't the end of the story, learning and advice are ongoing maybe with regional meets covering skill development etc. Fly-in meets are great, but maybe adding skills workshops would allow people to go away having learned something.

Bringing certification into the community rather than it being with an unrelated third party should allow it to remain relevant and up-to-date by evolving as MR's develop.

Just a thought.

 

[Macsgrafs]

Great points plingboot, especially:-

"Bringing certification into the community rather than it being with an unrelated third party should allow it to remain relevant and up-to-date by evolving as MR's develop."

Ross

 

[Droider]

BOY OH BOY

Sorry guys for not getting back sooner and replying tio ALL the PM's.. Again l am oerwelmed by the interest here.. As I have just got back from my Finland jolly I have been inundated with work and catching up on the main money earner..

There are so many people interested in this I think the only way forward is to arrange a meeting. No I know I am central in the UK but most of the enquirers are further south than I am so any one care to suggest a suitable meeting place / date/ time?.. and who agrees that the way forward is a meeting to move this forward?

Dave

 

[ZAxis]

Dave ...

How many people are we looking at accommodating ?

andy

 

[Droider]

you know Dave, we could use a credible organization here as well. the RCAPA says it represents us but I find that hard to believe. The AMA has forsaken us, and the FAA may or may not have any regard for our needs when the rules are finally published.

Eh Up Bart.. I am sure there is a call for an MR association in every country.. Andre at EuroUSE is playing his card correct. He has already got the Belgians on board and is moving his BNUC qualification into other european countries. It does seem a lot of money and it should not be a monoploly BUT at least a standard is being set. If the FAA need a good reference and if they would look at it the BNUC standard is what everyone should be aiming at.

Its just the cost and the monopoly that I am sure is sticking in everyones throat. I suppose I am sort of defending EuroUSE because they have made the CAA look at it seriously and have presented the case for UAV's or UAS or what every you want to call them and got the CAA and the Belgian AA to accept their standard so we in the UK and the Belgian guys can operate legally AND get insurance to do so.

Until there is a credible and professional alternative its the only show in town BUT if we get together I am sure EuroUSA will see us as a credible body and start to talk turkey on costs..

Dave

 

[Droider]

Dave ...

How many people are we looking at accommodating ?

andy

10 or so at the moment but I think that will increase as the word gets round.. I have not contacted the pro guys who only frequent this forum now and again to see if they are intersted but I guess I would want to limit it to a max of 15 or so for the initial mind melt other wise things just get bogged down. The guys who have PM'd me todate are all VERY well qualified so I could say that will do for now but I aint shutting the door..

Anyone else care to comment?

Dave

 

[Droider]

Just a quick note to all who have PM'd me.. There are so many valid points being made it would take me at least a day to reply to you all individually.. I would like the permission from every one who has PM's me to compile a document with ALL your comments and circulate them to the other interested parties.. If that is OK with everyone who has PM'd me please either say "eye" on this thread or PM me.. I would like to move this forward and get all the ideas circulated by the weekend

Dave

 

[Macsgrafs]

Somewhere between Swindon & Birmingham would be about middle I would have thought Dave. Yes you're right, it's the cost that prevents me to. the way I see it is that the CAA are causing me a loss of earnings with there 1 approving body, so something has to be done & fast! If others are like me & the chance came along to earn a few quid...license or no license..then I will take the job, based on safety first...wind speed, location of shoot, location of people & premises etc, local airfeilds as well. My octo has 4 seperate lipos, each feeding the main power ring by their own leads. I consider that as safe as can be at this present time & not forgetting I dont have to take my eyes off the octo as the camera is operated by someone else. Basically I might as well be flying a normal octo without camera


It will be great for all us UK guys into AV/AP to get together & approach the CAA as a united body.

Ross

 

[Macsgrafs]

Eye

 

[Droider]

What about the guus upt North.. furthest so far Lossiemouth!

 

[Macsgrafs]

What about the guus upt North.. furthest so far Lossiemouth!

He can hitch a ride on a Tornado

 

[Bowley]

Lol :tennis:. Yeah its a bit of a long haul for me guys. takes me 4 hrs just to get to Glasgow.
I'll have to bow out of meetings but thanks for the thought.

Steve

 

[Macsgrafs]

Steve,

Have a word with the guys at Lossy, ask for a lift to Cosford & you'll be sorted! I'm sure the station commander wouldn't mind to much, tell him its for a military MR meeting
On a serious note...you are a ways out my friend, bit like me down here in deepest darkest Debon

Ross

 

[swisser]

I could accomodate for a meeting in North London (zone 2) in my office conference room - seat about 10, standing room twice that. If it's the weekend I could accomodate more since the office will be empty.

Having been to various size meetings with the CAA before, both in the old control tower at Heathrow and at their offices in Kingsway, I know a bit about what they will and won't listen to. Actually I envisage that the CAA will be receptive, it's EASA that we'll have problems with.

 

[Droider]

it's EASA that we'll have problems with.

Who are they?

Dave