So I've been bitten by the bug. I purchased a DJI Phantom a couple of months ago, and I'm hooked. My question is how much more complicated is a large rig? I want to run a much better camera than a little GoPro. My problem is I run 2 businesses and I have an 18 month old daughter. The Phantom is so cut and dry, it's easy to get out and run it for 30 minutes here and there and then throw it in the case and head home. It seems there's A LOT more to these bigger rigs. Anyone have any opinions on this? Thanks!
Am I dumb for wanting a Cinestar 6?
- Thread starter hitek79
- Start date
Yes I do believe that you are going to blow a lot of money by doing that - Sorry...
I would suggest you concentrate on getting the best out of what you have. Use a H3-2D then you can improve the camera with a 72 deg lens and you can use FCP-X to enhance what you have with GoPro plugins.
Spend the money and time learning how to edit the footage properly and you will not be putting yourself and other people at risk by hauling heavy junk around the sky which will limit your ability to fly over high risk targets, it will also save yourself from a lot of useless and complicated hard work in trying to make it work properly. You can shoot 4K with a GoPro 3 and work on that to export really high quality 1080x1920HD footage that is totally overkill for what 99% of your shared output will require. Certainly beyond Broadcast TV standards
To prove the point I made this with a bog standard Phantom and a GP3+ std.127deg lens. in two days over a few beers on location using a Laptop. A practical solution with portable media output. Ask yourself a simple question. "Why do I need anything more"
I would suggest you concentrate on getting the best out of what you have. Use a H3-2D then you can improve the camera with a 72 deg lens and you can use FCP-X to enhance what you have with GoPro plugins.
Spend the money and time learning how to edit the footage properly and you will not be putting yourself and other people at risk by hauling heavy junk around the sky which will limit your ability to fly over high risk targets, it will also save yourself from a lot of useless and complicated hard work in trying to make it work properly. You can shoot 4K with a GoPro 3 and work on that to export really high quality 1080x1920HD footage that is totally overkill for what 99% of your shared output will require. Certainly beyond Broadcast TV standards
To prove the point I made this with a bog standard Phantom and a GP3+ std.127deg lens. in two days over a few beers on location using a Laptop. A practical solution with portable media output. Ask yourself a simple question. "Why do I need anything more"
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yeehaanow
Member
It is a LOT more complicated, expensive, and cumbersome. While I strongly stand by the fact that sometimes there is no substitute for a "proper" camera and lens, which requires a big setup, (usually more than a hexa though) there's a lot of validity to what Denny says.
It sounds like you don't have the time with all the other things going on. I suggest keeping it an easy hobby!
It sounds like you don't have the time with all the other things going on. I suggest keeping it an easy hobby!
If you want to take it a stage further this takes some beating, It can deliver as good or better quality footage as any heavy lift device out there. I call it my Evo Phantom. It has 9x5 elflight props. and a completely new bottom end comprising of a three axis gimbal that is made from parts from other stuff. A new battery position that makes it balance correctly and gives the option to mount two 2800 Maxamps. the second one fits in the normal position. An On/Off switch (essential) New carbon U/C that positions the camera much lower to avoid glare from the Nav. lights at night and allows a little upwards shooting without seeing the props. (A problem that is apparent when shooting 4K with a standard Phantom) The hero 3+ cameras have a 72 deg or a 60 deg lens and the performance is a step up from what the above video shows in terms of wide angle distortion. The 9x5 props. showed a definite improvement in unwanted yaw movements that can happen with the two axis gimbal. It also has a Spectrum Rx/Tx for improved range. The extra weight cuts the duration down to 6.5 mins with a 2800 MaxAmps. which I can live with as the high wind stability improved at the same time. The White motors from Kopterworx do give some extra grunt but I don't think I need that as they did not improve the duration in this case. If you want to do some high speed FPV then they would be great.
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A useful addition was to place some NITTO 597B around the mag as there is a lot of close magnetic fields generated by the Pan motor.
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A useful addition was to place some NITTO 597B around the mag as there is a lot of close magnetic fields generated by the Pan motor.
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Carapau
Tek care, lambs ont road, MRF Moderator
If you want to go for a bigger rig then go for it, don't' hold back. I have built a lot of machines and I find that the Cinestar range are hard to beat. I have a Skyjib 8 and would swap it for a Cinestar 8 in a flash if I could. However, before you buy, look fully into the costs of the various components you need as the costs of a project like this are in a whole different league from the Phantom.
Bowley
Member
I would love a CS6, but went for the lower cost option of a Vucan hex, I'm happy with it, but still would take the CS if cost were no issue. Agree with Denny on the Gopro/small rig thing, but even the gp3 is a poor stills camera, which is why I have a larger rig capable of carrying a variety of cameras.
The GP3 is awful as a stills camera. I really wish people would think carefully before claiming its any good. Its primarily designed as an action video camera and the stills files really are poor. Changing the lens gives only a slightly better picture because of the better optics but the files themselves are awful. Just because something looks ok on screen or out of your inkjet printer doesnt mean it will look any good published in a book or magazine. If I handed any of my clients GP3 images I would be out of work by xmas.
I've just started using the trial version of FCP-X : can you tell me which GoPro plugins you would recommend?
Thanks
Phil
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Most of the agencies will tell you that the demand for full rez output from 5D's etc are on the decline as the bulk of sales is going towards smaller and cheaper file sizes. Most software now uses the word sharing instead of output. Why would anyone use a 60mb file when they are going to put on the web or produce a 10x8 print reproduction.
The glaring fact remains that a poor AP has never become successful by buying a higher rez. camera.
The standard still image is only 12.33 x 10 inches at 300 pixels/inch. As your printer cant resolve more than 220 then that becomes 18.182 x 13.636 which is good enough for what most people will need. OnOne software claim an 800% increase without loss over that. I shot a bunch of hordings for the new Limassol Marina and I then needed the 5D but that is not the normal scope of what people want. I use a Cessna for that as I don't need to put that much risk factor into such a well paid job. The next guy to try and do that job on the cheap crashed a gasser heli into some cars after hitting a cable.
The glaring fact remains that a poor AP has never become successful by buying a higher rez. camera.
The standard still image is only 12.33 x 10 inches at 300 pixels/inch. As your printer cant resolve more than 220 then that becomes 18.182 x 13.636 which is good enough for what most people will need. OnOne software claim an 800% increase without loss over that. I shot a bunch of hordings for the new Limassol Marina and I then needed the 5D but that is not the normal scope of what people want. I use a Cessna for that as I don't need to put that much risk factor into such a well paid job. The next guy to try and do that job on the cheap crashed a gasser heli into some cars after hitting a cable.
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FCPeffects.com have a Fisheye removal plugin and you can shortcut the learning curve with X by taking a look at Izzy's tutorials
[video]http://www.izzyvideo.com/final-cut-pro-x-tutorial/1-getting-started/[/video]
What really makes life easy is having the new MacbookPro with a retina display because you dont have to sit there for ages waiting for the render to finish before you can see what adjustments you have made. It is instant playback by using the new scrubber feature. After using X you wont want to go back to 7...
The retina display knocks your eyeballs out, if you have any soft images you will soon know about it.
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Izzy has also a tutorial on using I-movie which is probably more in the price range of what folks will want to invest. Guess what, he uses some MR clips
Thanks for the link - great videos!
I've been using iMovie but it doesn't handle 1080/60 clips very well and it appears that you have less control in the latest version.
I'm using a Macbook Pro (2011, i7, 8gb ram, Mavericks) which is ok but I get the occasional Quicktime error 50 when rendering - any suggestions as to why?
Denny - I gotta say, that's "not the best" vid I've seen from you. Lacklustre colour, chronically unsharp, awful corner smearing, nasty moustache distortion, dodgy exposure, wayward horizons, etc. Also the camera movements are not smooth from that Phantom - several noticeable tail-wags and wobbles.
Forgive me for grabbing a frame from your piece but, really, this is "good"?...
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Forgive me for grabbing a frame from your piece but, really, this is "good"?...
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multirotorxy8
Member
Are you dumb? No, you're human. You enjoy the taste and you want a bigger bite, it gets nearly all of us.
Get a bigger copter if you want to expand your hobby. It sounds like this will be primarily for fun as opposed to work, or 'paid fun' as some may call it.
Per the camera discussion, while the future may hold great picture quality in gopro-sized packages, the current pro market I encounter is still demanding images from a much larger camera, whether in the air or on the ground. Even my 5D can look like garbage if I have inferior lenses on it, which is what it really comes back to. A gopro that matches a 5D with good glass in picture quality? That is something I'll buy two of.
Get a bigger copter if you want to expand your hobby. It sounds like this will be primarily for fun as opposed to work, or 'paid fun' as some may call it.
Per the camera discussion, while the future may hold great picture quality in gopro-sized packages, the current pro market I encounter is still demanding images from a much larger camera, whether in the air or on the ground. Even my 5D can look like garbage if I have inferior lenses on it, which is what it really comes back to. A gopro that matches a 5D with good glass in picture quality? That is something I'll buy two of.
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This is a standard Phantom with a standard 127 deg lens. I use many different platforms for my normal work which would include a 3 axis gimbal with a distortion free 60 deg or 72 deg. lens and a highly modified frame. That output will follow in the next episode. Maybe you have not noticed that all of the typical pancake lenses used with Nex. Panny's and most DSLR's also have a degree of wide angle distortion.
That video was put there to help amateurs improve the god awful fisheye that we have to endure everywhere you look on youtube and vimeo with a quick and simple process which can be refined to whatever you want it to be. It is a way to get more from a camera that is not designed to do what we are using it for but with some hacking can now produce totally linear distortion free imagery to photogrammetric standards. But I would at a guess, say that it is nevertheless beyond what you can show us in the way of helpful examples of your work.
Anything - or the usual delusional misinformation followed by total vacuum?
The smoothness of playback is a function of how vimeo deals with an otherwise perfectly smooth 50 fps down to 30 fps. which is not a division that can be smoothly transcoded without loosing vital frames. A file size that was 5 gig ends up at 375 mb before upload and that is before Vimeo murder it. Most of that information loss is dynamic color range. European TV does not use 30 FPS. The playback is thus highly compressed and is further distorted by your connection speed. Nobody sends any video media to a client for analysis using that method but I don't suppose you would know that as you have yet to post something.
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I'm not sure about the limitations of i-movie but with 16 gig of ram I can scrub the timeline and see an instant playback of a complex render using FCP-X. At 299 usd I think it would be a worthwhile investment in time saving as you already have a good machine..
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DucktileMedia
Drone Enthusiast
I think if you are going to buy anything bigger you should get an octo. There is really no reason to not have 8 motors when flying larger cameras/gimbals. Even if you are only flying a nex5n it is nice knowing you have the extra their for power and redundancy. I will say though, I am leaning more towards going smaller than larger. I have been able to talk damn near every client into using a smaller camera for their internet based advertising. I think the gh3 is the perfect aerial camera even though i dont have one. But having a cx760 now, I think that is my goto video cam. Another thing I dont like is having a humongous gimbal like the av200. It looks pro and does a great job when setup properly. The problem is that it catches wind which adds to vibrations and limits wind tolerance. My ultimate heli would be similar to what I have which is an xy8 but with 6s and slower spinning larger props for better efficiency and a much smaller gimbal capable of carrying the new gh4, sony a7, or my cx760. They are the goto cameras. I know having great glass is a key element but I honestly cant see that big a difference between most lenses in video mode. I also dont have the trained photo eye that some one here have. Or maybe I am just not that fussy. But I do know bad when I see it and thats certainly not acceptable. GP3 footage can be very impressive if done right but its not for me.