AlexMos and other brushless gimbal controllers....what is the truth?
- Thread starter Bartman
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Bartman
Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
Holy hell it's expensive!! First you'll need to buy a single Radian, then you'll have to pay 300 pounds (as in that little fancy L symbol pounds 
, nearly $500 US!) plus 20% if you're in the EU.
Here's a link to the ordering page
http://www.carvecsystem.co.uk/g-lock
I'm all for progress but I've got to wonder if the incremental improvement in performance over the Hoverfly GIMBAL (If there is any, the GIMBAL works pretty well) is worth it for a 2 axis servo drive unit.
, nearly $500 US!) plus 20% if you're in the EU.Here's a link to the ordering page
http://www.carvecsystem.co.uk/g-lock
I'm all for progress but I've got to wonder if the incremental improvement in performance over the Hoverfly GIMBAL (If there is any, the GIMBAL works pretty well) is worth it for a 2 axis servo drive unit.
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By my reckoning, the huge majority of decent FaceTube videos are from a GoPro, which is relatively easily to do with Alexmos (hyper-wide lens, lightness and built-in balance). It gets more difficult with Sony/Lumix cameras and damn tricky with DSLRs.
IMHO we've already come to the point where FC performance is taken for granted (even though there are still operational problems), i.e. it is no longer "magical". Alexmos is the first hobby-level brushless system. It's an great step forward but it's got a way to go yet, particularly in terms of getting easy results with the larger cameras. As such there's certainly room for better systems to come into the market. The price has every right to be higher than Alexmos (which has its own reasons for being so cheap, but that's another subject) - it's a pro-grade system, aimed at a higher level than a GoPro on the nose of an FPV tear-about. Good engineering costs money - that's never going to change.Holy hell it's expensive!! First you'll need to buy a single Radian, then you'll have to pay 300 pounds (as in that little fancy L symbol pounds
Here's a link to the ordering page
http://www.carvecsystem.co.uk/g-lock
I'm all for progress but I've got to wonder if the incremental improvement in performance over the Hoverfly GIMBAL (If there is any, the GIMBAL works pretty well) is worth it for a 2 axis servo drive unit.
btw I believe the G-Lock/Radian is a 3-axis system.
Bartman
Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
g-lock is a 3 axis system but i don't see any reason i shouldn't be able to do 2 axis with it.....i'm still trying to get myself up to speed.
fwiw, the Hoverfly GIMBAL does a pretty nice job.
i've got two radians on the way as of this morning. i'll convert one, plug it in and go about trying to tune it. i've also got a 2-axis brushless gimbal on my welding table, if I can get to it i'll start it with an Alexmos then go radian from there.
just need about 42 hours per day and i'll be able to get all caught up!
fwiw, the Hoverfly GIMBAL does a pretty nice job.
i've got two radians on the way as of this morning. i'll convert one, plug it in and go about trying to tune it. i've also got a 2-axis brushless gimbal on my welding table, if I can get to it i'll start it with an Alexmos then go radian from there.
just need about 42 hours per day and i'll be able to get all caught up!
Bartman
Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
that's right, the fish-eye hides a lot of the rolling and pitching with its very fluid corners
when tuning a mount i use my T2i with a wide angle zoom lens but zoom it in quite a bit to really show the flaws. it helps but in the end it works pretty well.
bart
I totally agree with that, i think G-Lock sounds reasonably priced if it really is working as well as we are expecting from the talent behind original Radians. I think Radians were the most bug free item ever seen in multirotor business before. It was tested and ready when it was released, not single bug fixes were actually needed after initial setup. That's PRO, that's how it should be.
What's so special in Mövi for 15K price tag? It's PRO right? Mechanical parts or mechanical design R&D? IMHO definitely not. It still needs mechanical tweaking and is far away from mechanical design requirements of movie industry equipment. Are you really willing to pay all that for (yes well designed) electronics but average mechanical design which is still after all years just tubes and clamps? I'm not, but i'm amazed how many are but why? Well, it's well marketed and branded, but also because of difficulty tuning AlexMos boards is too far away for so many. Mechanical parts are easy to copy and even make better but "easy looking" setup and good electronics really is something where FreeFly have been on top for now. That's where i see the potential of G-Lock and makes the price of upgrade and parts looks actually cheap.
Best,
Kari
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From what I have heard the Movi just works. Film production pros do not have time to mess about, equipment must just do its job and that I think is what the Movi is built to do. Whatever the electronics someone has done the homework and knows the answers. My Alexmos and Martinez gimbals are great for the money but performance depends on what day of the week it is etc, it is not consistent.
Steve Townsend
Member
Well I have taken a leap of faith and ordered the Carvec system. I have the radians in the first place so I don't have that additional expense. As I understand it John Cunningham, the designer of the GLock was the brains behind the Freefly Radians. That fact combined with his personal email replies I placed my order. I'm sure there will be a few Radians kicking about as you only need one!
Bartman
Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
thanks for all of the replies everyone, the original intent of the thread was to cut through the hype behind brushless controllers in order to see where they're really at.
it looks like they're coming along but still very early in the development cycle. nothing wrong with that!
Bart
it looks like they're coming along but still very early in the development cycle. nothing wrong with that!
Bart
Benjamin Rowland
Member
When the Alexmos works, it's good. I'm glad we made the change from servos to brushless. But as many have already said, brushless gimbals bring their own challenges.
I've used the Alexmos in conjunction with the GH3 mostly, and a few other cams. It is tough to tune. And documentation was lacking when the board was first released. The first board I received was a dud. I fooled with it for several days, only to realize that the board was faulty. But that happens - I got over it. The board was warrantied and I got another. That second board worked well for several months, then it died at a VERY inopportune time. We scrambled and replaced the board fairly quickly and loaded the same settings. It turns out that even with the same firmware, settings need to be tuned from one board to another. The boards aren't consistent. And we haven't been able to get the third board working as well as the second. I've also been a bit dissapointed that the Alexmos boards require the pins to be soldered by the end-user. All that said, we've gotten good results, but it hasn't been without a lot of frustration.
So I look forward to the competition bringing something that is easier to tune and more reliable to the market. Hoverfly has stated on this forum that they're working on a board. The G-Lock systems shows good potential as well. Both of those companies have very smart people involved. I hope they bring something to market soon.
I've used the Alexmos in conjunction with the GH3 mostly, and a few other cams. It is tough to tune. And documentation was lacking when the board was first released. The first board I received was a dud. I fooled with it for several days, only to realize that the board was faulty. But that happens - I got over it. The board was warrantied and I got another. That second board worked well for several months, then it died at a VERY inopportune time. We scrambled and replaced the board fairly quickly and loaded the same settings. It turns out that even with the same firmware, settings need to be tuned from one board to another. The boards aren't consistent. And we haven't been able to get the third board working as well as the second. I've also been a bit dissapointed that the Alexmos boards require the pins to be soldered by the end-user. All that said, we've gotten good results, but it hasn't been without a lot of frustration.
So I look forward to the competition bringing something that is easier to tune and more reliable to the market. Hoverfly has stated on this forum that they're working on a board. The G-Lock systems shows good potential as well. Both of those companies have very smart people involved. I hope they bring something to market soon.
SleepyC
www.AirHeadMedia.com
I feel so much better i’m not the only one going through insanity with these things. I thought maybe I was just a moron!
Benjamin Rowland
Member
I feel so much better i’m not the only one going through insanity with these things. I thought maybe I was just a moron!
I always joke that the top half (the copter) is totally reliable, and the bottom half (the gimbal) is totally sketchy.
jfro
Aerial Fun
SleepyC in response to Benjamin Rowlands success/failures with Alex mos.....
"I feel so much better i’m not the only one going through insanity with these things. I thought maybe I was just a moron!"
I am in the same boat. It is nice to hear it's not all good with peeps using the alexmos system. I thought maybe I was incompetent or maybe a mornon!
Think I'll go order a new alexmos boardset. Maybe that's my issue. I had good success early on, but lately, have not been able to achieve the same consistent results. Maybe been chasing the wrong issues, with props, bearings, mounts, brushless motors, pid settings. etc...
Maybe it's just the friggin alexmos board.
Thanks to all for sharing their experiences.
"I feel so much better i’m not the only one going through insanity with these things. I thought maybe I was just a moron!"
I am in the same boat. It is nice to hear it's not all good with peeps using the alexmos system. I thought maybe I was incompetent or maybe a mornon!
Think I'll go order a new alexmos boardset. Maybe that's my issue. I had good success early on, but lately, have not been able to achieve the same consistent results. Maybe been chasing the wrong issues, with props, bearings, mounts, brushless motors, pid settings. etc...
Maybe it's just the friggin alexmos board.
Thanks to all for sharing their experiences.
stevemaller
Heavy Lifter
After a few weeks of fiddling with the Alexmos board from ArmBGC, I was convinced that I had a dud, so I ordered another Alexmos board from Viacopter, and unfortunately saw the same problems. But after putting away the whole project for a month, I began to think through it, and developed a hypothesis that my small bench power supply I was using to test and tune it wasn’t delivering sufficient power to the motors. So I reluctantly hooked up a real LiPo (5s just to be sure) and found that the gimbal improved a lot. Then I started fishing about for a PID/gains recipe, and found one that works pretty well for my 2-axis GH3 setup. I am now waiting for some new motors and power systems to upgrade my Cinestar 8 for heavier payload capability, and once I’m done with that, I’m also going to add a direct drive pan axis to the gimbal.
So, in summary, I will add my voice to the chorus of those who have bruises on their heads that look like cinder blocks. :upset: This stuff is way harder than it should be, and the first people who develop some kind of rig that analyzes all the appropriate variables and just makes a brushless gimbal (or any gimbal, for that matter) work smoothly is going to win. Maybe Freefly’s MōVI is just that, but at $15,000+ for a working setup, there’s plenty of room for somebody else, too.
So, in summary, I will add my voice to the chorus of those who have bruises on their heads that look like cinder blocks. :upset: This stuff is way harder than it should be, and the first people who develop some kind of rig that analyzes all the appropriate variables and just makes a brushless gimbal (or any gimbal, for that matter) work smoothly is going to win. Maybe Freefly’s MōVI is just that, but at $15,000+ for a working setup, there’s plenty of room for somebody else, too.
photobobga
Member
With great interest I'm following this thread as the 'gimbal' is my weak link... other than my flying skills. For the sake of discussion is the DJI Zenmuse Z15 series not a contender?
-Bob
-Bob
SleepyC
www.AirHeadMedia.com
It’s not because it’s limited to a specific camera and lens.
If you are trying to fly professionally the ability to adjust your gimbal to many cameras or at least a multitude of lenses is key.
stevemaller
Heavy Lifter
Indeed. DJI did a good job of building a “plug and play” solution, but if you don’t have the right plugs, you can’t play.
Carapau
Tek care, lambs ont road, MRF Moderator
It was very interesting to hear everyone knocking the Movi when it was first announced (because of its price not its performance) but looking at what else is out there that can be relied on to work whenever you turn up for a job without tweaking, its price seems a little more realistic. Give it six months though and its price will seem steep again such is the pace of this industry.
We have been flying the Movi for several weeks now without a single issue with our Red Epic. It is fast and stupid simple to adjust; literally a 5 year old can do it once its balanced. Rebalancing for different lens, filter, etc. takes less than a minute. The holding power is more than adequate in forward flight. I don't have the luxury of tinkering with things on set so it has been a good choice so far so zero regrets.
jfro
Aerial Fun
If money were no object, I'd certainly buy one so I could spend time flying/ filming instead of tinkering. Unfortunately, the price gap between the alexmos brushless gimbals and movi is way to big for 99% of the market. Also, there is the little consideration of the larger MR to carry it.
My guess is in another 6-18 months, the lower end market will advance enough for peeps to capture smooth footage. Technology marches forward pretty fast sometimes.
Your post does make me want to go buy some lottery tickets.....