Agressive flying while shooting video

[ZAxis]

This thread picks up something I started by accidentally hijacking MombasaFlash's thread on long flight times.
Most discussions on MR video seems to be aimed at getting the most stable shots at altitude or on the way there and back slowly. This is fine for landscapes and general overview shots but some of us want to work low down and fast. We use the MR as an alternative to a fixed zip line or bike/MX/car/etc mounted platform rather than a helicopter or pole cam. I can get good shots whilst travelling at a constant acceleration but hit vibration and camera wobble when rapidly changing direction especially when going into a fast descent.
Droider has suggested our MK Hexa frame is too flexible to be thrown about and I will try making the camera mount even more rigid to see if that helps. A video of his WKM posted a little while back shows it to be a good platform for a fixed camera but I don't want to abandon having the camera stabilised in roll and tilt.
Does anyone else fly low & fast and have you encountered or overcome problems associated with that ?

 

[Bartman]

Z
part of flying fast means keeping the booms out of the shots. if the camera is fixed on the frame then it's less of a problem.
if the camera mount is compensating then you've got to move the motors and booms out of the way. the Y-6 is a good solution as is any quad or coaxial 8 motor configuration. my solution has been to make what I call my XY-8 frame that is a coaxial quad with 120 degrees across the front and back arms. it flies just as well as any other configuration with both the MK and DJI FC's having been used so far.
for camera stability I shoot for less flexibility and soft stuff in the mount as I've reached the conclusion that a lot of video vibration is coming from the efforts to isolate vibration and also from the compensating mechanisms of the mounts. others may reach other conclusions and have the good results to back them up. this is just what i've found from the directions that i've gone.
i'm making what is now the second generation of the frame and the fourth generation of my mount. i'll probably post a build thread in the coming weeks once i have everything on hand to proceed. it's all just a bit different from what you've seen although very similar as well.
Bart

 

[ZAxis]

Bart ...
Interesting.
I have to agree that keeping the props out of shot is important and the way I've achieved this so far is to dangle the camera mount well below the plane of the props. This must induce pendulum like disturbances to the Hexa that have to be compensated for by the FC as best it can. I wonder if it is up to processing the variety of PID control parameters that are required for differing aspects of the flight envelope when flying other than gentle and consistent. I have been watching the PicLoc experiences of others and would consider adding one to a system to offload some processor load from the main FC. It would also give 2 layers of stabilisation if mounted on the camera platform which can only be a good thing.
I like the idea of a modified XY-8 configuration and have to assume your camera mount will have its roll axis aligned with the kopter's roll axis. It would be nice to have 360 degree panning as well but that would bring its own set of problems.
It seems like my original wish for a single kopter to cover any job thrown at it is not likely to be fulfilled, it seems specialisation is the name of the game.... or is it just a wicked plot to sell more kit to us punters ?
I'll look forward to seeing your design ideas.

merry christmas
andy

 

[jffry7]

Whats your take on the butterfly arrangement of KK multi or the icecrab from Q4 system?

 

[ZAxis]

Both these arrangements seem to be reasonably large setups, probably good for use in clear outdoor areas but I'm interested in flying in much tighter situations. Typically forest, fire roads and dirt jumps.
Thanks for pointing them out.
andy

 

[Droider]

Andy.. I am sure your MK frame also contributes to the problem.. they are far to flexible when you start pulling a bit if G with the camera hanging below.. I aint trying to teach anyone to suck eggs here but you are more than welcome to come tomorrow up to Rivington and chase a few bikes.. you will see how the DJI frame and the DW Y6 really handles the stick I am now able to put them through. I will be testing some different prop combos also these are the key.. stiffness and balance is paramount for what we want our multis for in my modest opinion..

Zaxis Jnr. can fly.. as we all witnessed at the UK meet... possibly WAY better than your frame can cope with

Dave

 

[ZAxis]

Dave ..
I'd love to take you up on the offer. Just need to wait a few days until we are both free.
We'll be in touch
andy

 

[matwelli]

the best way I have found to keep the camera clear of the props, and keep it at the centre line ( cut down on pendulum effect) is to cantileaver it, push the camera forwards and move the battery back to compensate.

Seen lots of guys fighting vibration and using all sorts of things to stop it, I am not much of a videographer but have always found hard mounting works well, as long as evering else is balanced, but then my standards are low

Keen to follow this thread, as want to do some action filming.

 

[llbr22]

Here's some faster flying I tested a few weeks back.
http://youtu.be/9lHfOed8Fro

 

[matwelli]

here's some faster flying i tested a few weeks back.
http://youtu.be/9lhfoed8fro

gopro?

 

[llbr22]

Panasonic GH2; I just had the exposure screwed up so the video quality sucks.

 

[Droider]

Keen to follow this thread, as want to do some action filming.

@ Matwell.. seasons greetings buddy from upt north!

Check out my near haircut at about 4 mins in. This was flimed with a little home made quad. I have since built the 450 Framewheel and its such a good fast platform. Yoy have some interesting looking MRS there. I am sure they fly good knowing you but I would be a bit dubious about when you really load um up with cameras and batteries and really start chucking them around.. I am probably wrong.. I have to agree with camera and battery position. If I am shooting for fun the camera sits on top of the frame wheel but if I am looking for footage to use I sling the camera underneath the frame wheel and take off a bucket and hand catch the landing.. I tried two gopros one forward and one backward and it was ok but I think I would need to move up to 4 cell. It was really unstable when the batteries got below 10.5 volts but I could get about 6/8 mins good flying. We are supposed to be filming today but the weather seems to have not followed the forecast and its raining grrrr..

There some more of my pics and info on my build here

http://www.multirotorforums.com/showthread.php?1377-Droiders-WMK-F460-frame-build

All the best Dave

 

[matwelli]

"DUCK!"

Cool vid, was waiting for the weeds to grab ya !

We are enjoying a decent kiwi summer for a change

Here was my on board flying did, a few months ago, hadent flowen for a while and got all confuddled at the end, hence the crash - it was the Y6vtail, not properly tuned as you can see from the roll axis wobble at the end of each run, camera was a solid mounted go-pro- NO PROPS IN VIEW

Don't hesitate going 4s , well worth it, gives 60% or more available thrust, helps in strong wind

 

[ZAxis]

Dave
That's what I'd call aggressive! For a rigid setup there is remarkably little vibration and having no roll compensation does add to the drama. The lack of wobble when changing direction sharply shows it handles changes in G loading nicely. We could never achieve that with our soft mounted camera. What props were you using and do you think you can get any more improvement there ? Its great seeming limits pushed, in your case to the ultimate ! No Pain, no gain.
Matweli
I hope this thread encourages people to think beyond the nice landscape and level horizon. Enjoy it, I am.

Z junior is out of the country at the mo, we'll post some of our video after he gets back.

andy

 

[Droider]

If you think that footage was lairy wait till you see todays ;-)

Did have a real hard stack on the first flight.. framewheel and motor one buried in to the turf..... DEEP!

TorxPower motors and 10x5 Graupners, 2200mah overlander 3 cell, 18amp hobbywing esc's flying with a GP2.. 8 mins per battery and thats really chucking it around.. as you will see

Dave

Guess Junior is snow boarding!... Danny Hart World champ! Bloody brilliant..... Just as I predicted ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaaLoqcx6YY&list=UUJMXYyH_t85Bmm8Hcy999KA&index=28&feature=plcp

 

[Droider]

forgot I done this as well