A newbie question about props and battery combination for AP

[davidrab]

Hi, pretty new to the entire Multirotor thing and trying to get into it, especially to the AP business.
I'm in the process of figuring out what is the best combination for my first Multirotor. It will definitely be the F550 for start, but I'm not sure about the props (definitely not the stock ones) and battery (read somewhere that for AP it is best to use the 10" with a 3s, but then I read in this forum that someone uses the 9" and 4s and he is pretty satisfied with the stability).

Can someone please help me with this decision, I mean - 10" with 4s or 3s or 9" with 4s? And what about using 6000mah? when someone says 9" for the F550, does he mean 9x5? And what does it mean "balancing the props", how is it being done?!!

Oh, and Is it even possible to get around 20 minutes of flight with the GoPro or the nex7?

Again, sorry for the newbie questions...

Thanks,
David

 

[2tall]

I recently started an identical thread and received some great help.

http://www.multirotorforums.com/showthread.php?5539-Best-F550-Flight-Power-amp-Prop-Combination

One thing is certain, the answer to your question will depend on the flying weight of your F550. If you have not completed the build with everything on board that you intend to use it is too early to finalize a prop/battery combination. Essentially, your ship should hold altitude at or very near mid stick while flying in MANUAL mode. If it has a signiificant climb or descent rate at mid stick the ship is over or under powered/"proped". My F550 weighs in at about 5.5 pounds and is happiest with 10 inch Graupners flying 4S power.

Prop balancing is essentail to keep vibrations in check and to avoid unnecessary wear on motor bearings. Prop banalcers are not expensive. Youtube has a couple of prop balancer product reviews and some how-to instructions. Just search "Prop Balancing".

My Graupners were pretty good except for one, which was not even close.

Jon

 

[2tall]

"Oh, and Is it even possible to get around 20 minutes of flight with the GoPro or the nex7?"

My F550 is using 5800mah 4S and will fly for a little more than nine minutes leaving the recommended 20% in the pack. Adding another battery would get me near 19 minutes but would probably be more weight than the stock motors and 10 inch Graupners can handle. There is a "Heavy Lift" modification (not cheap) that improves the motors, extends the mounts slightly, and allows for 11 inch props. That would probably get you to your 20 minutes, or close.

Jon

 

[RTRyder]

"Oh, and Is it even possible to get around 20 minutes of flight with the GoPro or the nex7?"

My F550 is using 5800mah 4S and will fly for a little more than nine minutes leaving the recommended 20% in the pack. Adding another battery would get me near 19 minutes but would probably be more weight than the stock motors and 10 inch Graupners can handle. There is a "Heavy Lift" modification (not cheap) that improves the motors, extends the mounts slightly, and allows for 11 inch props. That would probably get you to your 20 minutes, or close.

Jon

Doubling up the batteries does not double the flight time, the additional weight of the second battery takes its toll. If you're getting 9 minutes now you might get to 14, maybe 15 with a second battery unless you're flying a stripped down frame for the express purpose of maximizing flight time. Last fall I did just that with a stock F450 to see just how long I could keep it in the air. With a pair of 3S 5000 packs strapped to the top and running in parallel for a total of 10,000 mAh I was able to coax a little over 27 minutes in the air running the batteries as low as I dared which turned out to be to about 90% discharge.

If the frame is loaded up with additional gear for AP then the incremental increase in flight time will be shorter the heavier it is, the absolute best I've been able to safely fly any of my APV hex or quads has been around 15 minutes with small cameras like GoPros or a Canon SX200. My Droidworx AD6 carrying a Photohigher AV130 with a Sony Nex 5N and a pair of 4S 5000 batteries was good for about 12 minutes keeping the batteries to a max of 80% discharge. The probablilty of safely getting 20 minutes flight time with any decent camera on a mid level gimbal is close to zero.

Ken

 

[Dewster]

Doubling up the batteries does not double the flight time, the additional weight of the second battery takes its toll. If you're getting 9 minutes now you might get to 14, maybe 15 with a second battery unless you're flying a stripped down frame for the express purpose of maximizing flight time. Last fall I did just that with a stock F450 to see just how long I could keep it in the air. With a pair of 3S 5000 packs strapped to the top and running in parallel for a total of 10,000 mAh I was able to coax a little over 27 minutes in the air running the batteries as low as I dared which turned out to be to about 90% discharge.

If the frame is loaded up with additional gear for AP then the incremental increase in flight time will be shorter the heavier it is, the absolute best I've been able to safely fly any of my APV hex or quads has been around 15 minutes with small cameras like GoPros or a Canon SX200. My Droidworx AD6 carrying a Photohigher AV130 with a Sony Nex 5N and a pair of 4S 5000 batteries was good for about 12 minutes keeping the batteries to a max of 80% discharge. The probablilty of safely getting 20 minutes flight time with any decent camera on a mid level gimbal is close to zero.

Ken

That's really helpful info Ken. I'm experimenting with different batteries/props to maximize flight time with the load that I intend on carrying. My Y6 is heavy and of course the prop configuration is not as efficient as a flat hexa. Now for some crazy reason... I was able to double my flight time from 4.something minutes to 9.3 minutes using two 3s 6000 mah lipos in parallel. The batteries weigh a pound each. I can tell I'm probably at the weight limit for flying my craft. I'm able to keep my Y6 in the air for a solid 9 minutes and I use a lipo battery alarm just to make sure that I'm not going over flight time limit.

I intend on carrying a Sony Nex 5n, but I'll have to decide on shorter flight times or increase the loading to see how much my Y6 can handle. The 11 inch Graupners are worth the money. I just think I need to experiment with lighter batteries.

 

[2tall]

Just guessing here, but could it be that the effect of the added weight from a second battery is more of a factor when that battery is a significant portion of the overall flying weight. I fly a scale UH1 that weighs 18 pounds. Adding a second battery (which I needed to do for balance anyway) did double the flight times. However, on my F550, where adding a battery is a significant increase in AUW I can see Ken's point to be very true.

Jon

 

[davidrab]

Hi everyone and thanks for the fast replies. 2Tall, the link to your post really helped me. thanks.

As if I don't have enough combinations to choose from, I just received a recommendation from a proffesional Aerial Photographer. He suggested to use the 10X3.8 SF and SFP (not sure what it means) props.
The information he gave me was pretty short and he's a busy dude so I couldnt dig into it.
The only thing i think i understand is that it is good for slow flying, especially for AP and they have a major advantage over the Graupner 10X5 - they are in stock...

Did someone use these props or have some information about it?

 

[Dewster]

Hi everyone and thanks for the fast replies. 2Tall, the link to your post really helped me. thanks.

As if I don't have enough combinations to choose from, I just received a recommendation from a proffesional Aerial Photographer. He suggested to use the 10X3.8 SF and SFP (not sure what it means) props.
The information he gave me was pretty short and he's a busy dude so I couldnt dig into it.
The only thing i think i understand is that it is good for slow flying, especially for AP and they have a major advantage over the Graupner 10X5 - they are in stock...

Did someone use these props or have some information about it?

The 10.38 SF and SFP (Slow Fly and Slow Fly Pusher = right rotation and left rotation). For most multi rotors you need opposing pairs of props to counter the torque. APC props are good. They can take a beating and still fly. They also flex vs. self destructing in flight. For me that offered a smoother transition of movement which IMHO resulted in smoother video/photos. The Graupners are the cream of the crop. Big hub, firm blades, quieter, and I achieved long flight time. Movement is crisper than APC. I had to adjust gains to smooth out the flights. I like the look of the GraupnersView attachment 6088.