680 water crash.. Why??

[nealj4]

Hi Everyone, They say its not if but when its going to happen.. So True. I had my Tarot 680 crash into the lake yesterday. No idea why. I would love any feedback. Here are the facts.- Tarot 680, 4 cell 5000 mA battery, dji 30 amp opto esc, naza V2with gps, spectrum dx7s with ar8000 receiver, gopro 3 black on a tarot gimbal , 450 mW FPV transmitter 5.8 ghz sending signal to my 7 inch lcd monitor. I initialized the motors with full gps lock ( or so it appeared, double flashing green) in gps mode I ascended to about 10 ft , hovered for 10 sec. everything seemed very stable and normal ( it was my third flight that day). I moved the right stick forward to move the MR forward then it took over. It started to move forward at an escalating pace, climbing slightly to about 50 ft and gently curving to the right. I kept the stick in mid position and a couple times tried to correct with some left stick but no response. It then slowly started to descend ( thank god) still arcing to the right with a fair bit of lateral speed. I tried att mode but nothing, back to gps mode. As it started to get closer to the water I tried full throttle but no response and eventually hit failsafe when it was about 6 feet above the water, which didn't do anything. It seemed to slow up a bit and finally splashed down into about 2 feet of water. The whole flight was about 30 seconds. It took me about 3 minutes to get to it. When I did it was submerged upside down , the naza led still flashing ( yellow I believe, I turned the transmitter off at shore.) The gopro display was blank. I immediately unplugged the power plug. As soon as I got to shore I checked the battery with lipo checker it was 16.5 v. I got all the electronics disassembled and into bags of rice within a half hour. I will leave them there for a day or two. This is a new beast to me with about 20 flights on it , but has worked flawless right from my initial power up (Thanks to all of you and hours of reading to learn the proper build techniques.)I also have done extensive bench and field testing of all my failsafes, but obviously that didn't help me at all. 2 things come to my mind as possibilities, I accidently hit the wifi button on the gopro when turning it on( I am cautious of this because I have done it before but it only caused a couple bobbles in commands not a total loss of control). The second is that I have been having trouble getting my FPV transmitter to connect to my display and the only way I can correct it is to cycle power to the tx. In this case I had to plug and unplug the power plug about 5 times in about 2 minutes. Could this have caused the initializing of the naza to go haywire? So this leaves a lot of question's , some of which are : even if I power up the electronics again and everything works, what is the likelihood of sustained reliability. What can I expect from that battery , does submerging it cause any internal damage? Should I just scrap it? Anything else I can do to save the electronics? Does anyone know of a gimbal out there that will hold the gopro waterproof case. And the big question WHY?? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks everyone!

 

[Tuomas P.]

If it dropped into freshwater, let all dry completely, remove props and see what happens. I believe at least most of the stuff is usable.
BR,
Tuomas

 

[nealj4]

Thanks for the re-assurance Tuomas, yes it was fresh water. I am going to put it back together tonight and power it up. Have you had a water dunk experience?

 

[jfro]

I have a Naza V2/gps and have never had a problem, although on a couple occasions I've accidently hit the switch for return to home and lost all control for a few seconds as I tried the yaw, throttle, pitch, etc... until I realized I'd hit the return to home switch. Terrible feeling with a DJI product.

I'd suspect the off/on with the power might be an issue, but that's a wild guess.

Not sure if this is worth some research into, but last Friday night (6/13) , I was at the base of a ridge with lots of trees on one side and very deep water 30 feet in front of me. I was getting ready to fly 550mm quad with a Pixhawk that I've just started to fly. I don't have led status lights yet, so I use my phone to check the satellite lock status of the Pixhawk. When I first launched the Arducopter app, there was a quick flash on the screen which I ignored, (but later looked up after I had a crazy quick flight). Once up in stabilize mode, I switched to satellite mode to check out that it was working as I was going out over the water. My quad acted normally for a 5-10 seconds, but as I moved it around a little, it started moving more than it should have. Thankfully it came back towards me and as I descended, it got more skittish so I brought it down quickly for a semi hard landing. I turned on my phone again and checked the status and saw the quick flash again, but this time caught the message which was warning about solar activity & possible GPS interference. I'd only caught solar activity the first time. Quad sustained no damage, but I checked the satellite status a few more times and saw the solar activity warning and since I was next to a cliff and water, I decided no to fly anymore. Not sure if this would be pertinent to your situation, but thought I'd throw it out to you.

Hopefully, you can get this figured out. If your Naza comes back to life, I'd figure out your tx issue on your video transmitter. I don't think cycling the main power supply on and off 5 times is a good idea.

PS. I was about 50 miles or so south of Lake Ontario which is probably south of you in Ontario.

 

[stitch1615]

And the big question WHY?? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks everyone!

I've had golf balls in my bag that seemingly refuse to fly over water. :upset:
I can't actually identify them prior to use so I avoid water at all cost. It has saved me lots of balls.
Perhaps there are quads and hex's that have the same phobia.

 

[nealj4]

Thanks jfro. I know I did not hit the RTH, but you got me thinking about whether I waited long enough for the a rock solid gps signal. I may have rushed the take-off. ( I was trying to capture the sunset over the lake at the perfect time). I will also look into this solar flare thing. Good stuff!!

 

[jfro]

Thanks jfro. I know I did not hit the RTH, but you got me thinking about whether I waited long enough for the a rock solid gps signal. I may have rushed the take-off. ( I was trying to capture the sunset over the lake at the perfect time). I will also look into this solar flare thing. Good stuff!!

I do alot of test flights in an area where I sometimes get gps lock quickly and other times takes a few minutes. Sometimes I'll be down to two red flashes, then get the multiple green flashes indicating home lock. I never take off, but wait for 1 or 0 red flashes and then get another bunch of green lights for home lock, then I arm an go. So far, I've never had any kind of issue with my Naza V2. It started life on a small quad, went to a 650 quad w/ low kv motors and flew like a charm carry a light weight gimbal with gh2 and gh3. It now resides on an 18lb x8 and flies nicely. Just started, but some of the best video I've captured. Only been out 2x with it, but excited to get some more air time.

When I read these Naza loss of control issues I freak out a bit. got alot of money in air on the x8. It's always worrisome, especially if you have had successful flights right before it happened. The one time I hit rth accidentally, I had forgot to start my camera, so I reached up to turn off my monitor and must have brushed the switch. Didn't realize it for a few seconds.

Interested to see if you saved the Naza from the fresh water dunking.

 

[nealj4]

An update after drying out , re-assembly and powering up.!! My go pro 3 is fine. ( for now anyway ) Very funny thing though. I was reviewing the footage of the crash flight ,and the camera stopped recording about 5 seconds before the crash?? With the newer ,recommended class 10 Micro SD I have never had the camera stop filming. Also upon powering up the video transmitter it started to smoke so I have ordered a new one ( 400mW).I have two of the DJI 30 amp opto ESCs smoking, all motors work using the naza "test motor" button. Will the motors be fine down the road?? any suggestions for a replacement ESC as the DJIs are hard to come by?? Are all OPTO ESCs non calibration necessary?? Should I replace all the ESCs? Yes , Havoc 256,I do have the failsafe configured for radio loss. Looking back on all comments now, just wondering if the video transmitter ( which you read in my initial post) which has been giving me trouble linking to my screen maybe took a power surge, causing the crash and stopping the gopro from recording?? Really appreciate your help guys!!

 

[nealj4]

Ohh I forgot to add, the Tarot gimbal seems to work fine , the Naza all seems good (still on the bench at this point though) and my spectrum ar8000 seems to be responding properly.!

 

[jfro]

From what I've been told, the motors should be fine. I was told if I covered the electronic, I could fly in light rain/ heavy snow. Motor's don't seem to care.
This is just 2nd hand comments being passed on, but it sounds reasonable to me.

My Naza works fine with the Turnigy Plush 30a and 40a ESC's. Also used with 900kv motors and 400kv motors with know issues.

 

[Bartman]

funny thing happened over a trout stream today....dunked my Hoverfly XY-8 into about 18 inches of water. left if in the sun and so far I have confirmation that the flight control board is fine, just waiting to let the rest of it dry out before applying power again. unplugging all connectors to let air in seems like a good idea as does spraying contacts with contact cleaner to displace moisture. haven't tried putting power to the receiver, vtx, gimbal controller, etc but maybe one by one as i'm sure they are dried out.

it went in and i quickly put the transmitter down and walked right in after it. the big surprise was that the Sony CX580 handicam wrote the file as it stopped recording so we were able to use the video from the flight! the camera is in a bowl of rice out in the sun, hopefully drying out so it can be put back into use although i'm not sure the BOSS feature will work the same after being exposed to water.

all in all a really sucky experience. :livid:

 

[soundman57]

funny thing happened over a trout stream today....dunked my Hoverfly XY-8 into about 18 inches of water. left if in the sun and so far I have confirmation that the flight control board is fine, just waiting to let the rest of it dry out before applying power again. unplugging all connectors to let air in seems like a good idea as does spraying contacts with contact cleaner to displace moisture. haven't tried putting power to the receiver, vtx, gimbal controller, etc but maybe one by one as i'm sure they are dried out.

it went in and i quickly put the transmitter down and walked right in after it. the big surprise was that the Sony CX580 handicam wrote the file as it stopped recording so we were able to use the video from the flight! the camera is in a bowl of rice out in the sun, hopefully drying out so it can be put back into use although i'm not sure the BOSS feature will work the same after being exposed to water.

all in all a really sucky experience. :livid:

hi all you water guys,
there is product called CAIG it is a magic contact cleaner I use it in my sound company and recording studio ,it works wonders on electronics that get wet.
had an MK OCTO dive into a pool , and brought it back to life.

 

[nealj4]

Question all! Even if I did not wait for a solid gps lock, it basically runs in attitude mode ( am I correct) plus I did switch to att mode. It still shouldn't go into a full blown flyaway. Maybe just a little wobbly would be my thoughts and past experience with another copter I have.

 

[Fat Corgi]

I've lost a f550 to water before, but unfortunately it was salt water. It was almost a complete loss, and I'm still hesitant to fly over water.

As a preventative, you could use this stuff (link). We call it "Wizards piss" in the film industry and it is a bit magical. You can spray it straight on to electrical components, and it acts as a water displacer. Even straight on to motor windings. Or if you really want to go to town, try this (link). We call that "condom-in-a-can", and it is like spraying a Cling film over your components.

It might not save everything, but coming from someone who has lost a whole rig to water, if you can retrieve anything, it's a win.
P.S. does anyone want a water damaged NAZA M V2 or 2-axis GoPro zenmuse? :livid:

 

[nealj4]

Well Im back up in the air again. Just to recap. Naza works good, Spektrum AR8000 works good, Gopro works good. Gps works good .Motors are good. Just had two ESCs smoking ,but I replaced them all just in case. And FPV transmitter went up in smoke.. My final thought as to the reason why?? I notice on my rig when plugging the battery in and the Naza does its power up LED sequence, you get the series of quick flashes that home position is recorded, then it flashes the green green or the odd red green trying to get full lock. Well, I get a second set of quick flashes showing home position( I just now noticed this). What if I took off before that second set of quick flashes?? Why is it doing that ? Is that normal.? Thanks guys.

 

[Fat Corgi]

I'm pretty sure the 2nd set of quick green flashes are the Naza telling you its "intelligent Orientation Control" (IOC) has orientated itself. Much like waiting for GPS lock. I've never flown with IOC and have turned it off in the software.