2 devastating crashes in a month using Wookong

I am a relatively new pilot, but in the past 3 months have progressed from learning to fly a DJI Phantom to building and flying an S800 using Wookong and a Century NEO 660 using the same Wookong electronics. I built my S800 in July, successfully flew it, rebuilt it after a minor crash that was my fault, and then traveled with it to the Canadian Arctic. I had concerns that it might not fly correctly at 74° N, but was told that as long as I received GPS signals that it would be OK. After initially testing my Phantom and having it spiral out of control and crash on its side, I was very careful setting up and testing my S800. I successfully hovered it close to the ground for several minutes, before trying a slightly more ambitious test flight the next day. My S800 was hovering totally stable less than 30’ above the ground and slightly in front of me when it suddenly turned on it’s side, would not respond to any of my control inputs, and accelerated for about 100 yards before crashing. The airframe of the copter was totally destroyed, but the flight electronics appeared to have survived the crash.

Upon returning home, I ran several tests on my surviving Wookong electronics and had several phone discussions with Helicopter World about salvaging these components to use in building a new NEO 660 hexacopter. I then spent approximately 20 hours building my NEO 660 from August 14 until 18. I assembled the aircraft using my Wookong and began my initial test flights on the morning of August 18. My initial tests were very careful and controlled, as I did not want to take any chances at losing another vehicle. I carefully hovered it in my driveway only a few feet off of the ground. Everything appeared to be functioning correctly, which was also confirmed by my WM Assistant app, as well as the data that I was monitoring on my 5” LCD screen from my iOSD. In order to test the copter and break in the new batteries, I performed seven 5 minute flights using each pair of batteries for a total flight time of approximately 1:10, during which I progressed from hovering the copter in my driveway to slightly above the alley in front of my house.

After the success of my initial test flights and breaking my batteries in, I was ready to perform my first duration test of my copter using a pair of batteries. I hovered my copter approximately 60’ in front of my house and 60’ above the ground while monitoring its performance and data, along with running a stop watch to test the duration. I successfully landed the copter at approximately 18:30 without any performance glitches. I then hooked up my second set of batteries to perform another duration test. My copter was hovering without any problems and the data was showing me that my batteries were at about 14.6V at about 16:30 into the flight. From the time, I knew that it was almost time to land my copter as its electronics were also getting close to the first low voltage warning set at 14.4V. Suddenly without any warning, my copter began to rotate counter-clockwise and accelerate to the right and would not respond to any of my control inputs. I tried flipping my fail-safe control switch to regain control of my copter and make it automatically return to home. The copter did not respond and continued on a trajectory that took it 200 yards over the top of some nearby apartment buildings at which point I lost sight of it, but it appeared to crash into the lake. I was devastated.

Am I the only one experiencing this sudden loss of control and catastrophic landing of my copters using DJI's Wookong? I appreciate any advice or anecodotes.
 

Benjamin Kenobi

Easy? You call that easy?
First off, Canadian Arctic...Awesome! Crashes not awesome. Have you a military or aviation background because that was a great post with plenty of detail, that's what we like here!

Did you consider a motor or ESC as a suspect? A poor solder joint can give up when you start pulling power hence why hovering was okay close by but you move around a bit and it gives up. Maybe.

I can only assume from your post that you've maintained the craft well and calibrated everything as it should as you seem capable so I won't ask those usual questions.

Have you bench tested components post crash?
 

I agree with Ben. It is clear that you are very methodical in how you are approaching this whole business, and equally thorough in writing up what you have done. I am very sorry for the two very costly accidents you had. I have had one such costly accident, and I know the feeling.

After the first crash with the iOSD onboard, did you happen to look at any of the logged data? The same after the second crash, presuming you had an iOSD onboard as well... were you able to recover the iOSD and let it dry out and pull the data? I believe you might be able to find some clues in there.

Have you considered your transmitter/receiver pair? What are you using with that regard?
 

Benjamin,

Thank you for your reply. I am a professional photographer who's work is well know and travel a lot. I was hoping to photograph the annual gathering of 2000 belugas whale at Somerset Island this summer, but not only did my S800 crash early in the trip, but the belugas barely showed up for the 1st time in 40 years of records. Bummer!

My degree is in Mechanical Engineering, but I barely used it before starting my photography career 13 years ago.

I successfully built and flew my S800 for about 4 hours before disassembling it to transport to the Arctic. After my Phantom went out of control and crashed, I was very careful assembling my S800 and testing it. Several people observed me successfully hover it for several minutes close to the ground. The next day I attached my Canon SL1 to try to photograph the Arctic Watch lodge where I was staying. I lifted the copter no more than 10m above the camp when all of a sudden it rotated to the right and then oriented itself vertically as it accelerated over the bluff and appeared to crash into the river. Upon inspection, it cratered into a narrow gravel bar between the 2 main branches of the river. I recovered the parts and it appeared that the arms & landing gear absorbed the impact protecting my Wookong & camera.

When I got back home and started testing everything, all my electronics appeared to be operational. I ordered the NEO 660 and reinstalled my Wookong. As I built it, I methodically tested every connection and using the new WM app tested each motor individually. Once I started test hovering, I gained more confidence that everything was functioning properly. When I got to the 16 minute mark on my last flight, my iOSD was reporting 14.6V still, but I knew that it was time to land. Almost at that same moment is when my copter started rotating counter-clockwise and then spiraled out of control into the lake. So, unless I put my scuba gear on and go poking around in front of the apartments along the water somewhere at a depth of about 50' (I took my boat over there the next day to see how deep it was), I do not have a copter to test for what went wrong. Bummer.

I'm taking some time to investigate what my options are as far as rebuilding goes. I'm inclined to rebuild the NEO 660 and install the new NAZA system, but am interested in learning more about other pilot's experiences with DJI's equipment before committing.

Thanks for your thoughts.
 
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RCJardin

Not so new and improving
I am sorry for your losses, I know the feeling on a smaller scale (F550 WKM). I have lost confidence in my WKM but am not sure what to do. My version is of 6 months ago and I have not updated but am terrified of losing another machine. I am tempted to try the new Super X and see if I can get in some flying time without unexplained mishaps such as uncontrollable drifting, suddenly shooting up to 30feet and then switching off motors and crashing down etc. My kit has been checked over by a professional UAV builder and construction wise been given a clean bill of health.
 

ProPilotWannaBe

I did not have my iOSD hooked up correctly at that point, so only after I got home did I realize how I needed to connect it to my PMU. It was working well enough to provide power to my DJI 5.8GHz transmitter. So, I do not have any data from that first crash. I would have loved to been able to review that data from my 2nd crash had my 660 not plunged into the lake.

I am using a Futaba 8J radio and receiver that I bought at the same time from Heli World. Do you think that would cause my sudden problems that I am experiencing? I would love to rebuild my 660 using the new NAZA, but am concerned about losing another copter due to seemingly no fault of my own.
 
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RCJardin

Interesting to read that you are also not confident about your DJI products. I'm curious how many other pilots have experiences this unexplained mishaps. DJI needs to be held accountable if they are selling a faulty system. Of course, they are impossible to get in touch with. At this point, my only resolution is to dispute the charges with my credit card company. That ought to at least get someones attention. Since my most recent 660 was almost the 4th copter that I have assembled in the last 3 months, I am getting pretty confident about my building skills. I think that my power board soldering on my 660 was actually beautiful.

I've also been talking to Quadrocopter about the MK flight controls. I wonder if I need to really consider learning to build that new system or whether I can rebuild with NAZA components?
 
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I am using a Futaba 8J radio and receiver that I bought at the same time from Heli World. Do you think that would cause my sudden problems that I am experiencing? I would love to rebuild my 660 using the new NAZA, but am concerned about losing another copter due to seemingly no fault of my own.
It was more of a question, but yes, the transmitter and receiver can be equally at fault as anything else... Especially for flyaways. It sounds like it is one of the parts in common between your two builds, as are possibly others. Based on what I've understood, it's hard to single out anything. Is easy to pick on faulty Wookong, but me personally would put that lower on the probability list. The fact that it wasn't responding to *any* of your controls to me says a lot. After you tried to invoke Failsafe, do you recall if you tried flipping back to GPS or Attitude, or even Manual? If I understand correctly, it probably never went into Failsafe because it does sounds like it tried to climb first. I'm just thinking out loud...
 

I was flying in AT mode when my most recent crash happened. I did not try flipping the switch to Manual in the few seconds that I had to react. I only initiated the failsafe switch which was set to return to home, but it did not respond. I'm still new enough that I have not yet tried flying in Manual. I probably have about 35+ hours of flying so far.

Do you really think that the radio & receiver would suddenly lose control like this?

Thanks for thinking out loud with me.


Jon Cornforth
cornforthimages.com
 

Jon, If I were you I'd recommend getting that scuba gear out! I have lost an s800 in a lake, retrieved it, disassembled the electronics and dried them in rice, lubed the motor bearings, and it still works beautifully. I also know of a local guy who had the same experience with a Phantom. If you think you can retrieve it, there's a good chance that it will fly again. Hopefully without failure. If it weren't for the fact that it had happened on two airframes, I'd suspect esc failure.
 

Efliernz

Pete
Firstly - I'm a long-time modeller but I don't have a lot of DJI experience (my Naza V2 is still in the box).

Were you relying on GPS performance for you flying? GPS performance is unreliable/crappy at best at the ends of the earth. Many published papers on the issue...

Pete
 

I'm still new enough that I have not yet tried flying in Manual. I probably have about 35+ hours of flying so far.
You and me both. I still only touch Manual when I feel I need to do some training. Even Attitude is still a little bit out of my confort zone, but I'm trying to be proficient in all modes.

Do you really think that the radio & receiver would suddenly lose control like this?
From my understanding, yes. For example, I hear that the percentage of Phantom fly aways is much much higher than other Naza based systems. One theory I hear a lot is because of the transmitter system used on the Phantom.

Thanks for thinking out loud with me.
Me countinuing to think out loud here (and I may get some flack for some of these thoughts)...
FC related problems tend to be more in the instability or flips of death... especially when in ATT mode. When in GPS mode, you can add FC related problems such as erratic Return To Home operation where the FC doesn't know where home is and commands the MR to some unknown position and/or height.
Battery/Motor/ESC problems tend to be the loss of power or fall out of the sky stuff.
But transmitters are the link between you and the FCs, so if this fails, you have no control and the FC will fly whatever it is getting from the receiver.

Because you said you were in Attitude mode, and because it sounds like it was a controlled (not by you) stable fast flight into terrain, is why my initial thoughts are not FC-directed.

Again, these are just me thinking out loud, and I am sure the more experienced guys could probably point out flaws in my thinking. I am still learning myself, and I always find it fascinating when these gurus chime in and present a whole new version of events that I hadn't even thought of.
 

Octo NZ

Member
I was flying in AT mode when my most recent crash happened. I did not try flipping the switch to Manual in the few seconds that I had to react. I only initiated the failsafe switch which was set to return to home, but it did not respond. I'm still new enough that I have not yet tried flying in Manual. I probably have about 35+ hours of flying so far.

Do you really think that the radio & receiver would suddenly lose control like this?

Thanks for thinking out loud with me.


Jon Cornforth
cornforthimages.com

Hi, Really sorry for your loss.
A few thoughts regarding your post : if you switch return to home (RTH) in atti mode, it won't take it. You must be in Atti-GPS. (I did the experiement yesterday with a new Hexa unit). But if you are flying attitude mode, and you are switching off your radio, the failsafe activates and the multirotor will come back to its home position (did yesterday as well).
Also, I read in the WKM manual that "the MC cannot work in the polar circle". I don't know how far you are from it, but it could be an explanation.
What is your GPS version ? Do you have the version 2 ?
I had the sad experience to crash with a bugged version 1 GPS : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkCeWNmEwiU
Hope this helps
 

turkeybird

That is very interesting to know that your S800 & electronics survived the water. I briefly entertained getting my scuba gear to look for it, but apart from the challenge of locating it somewhere in the general vicinity of where the folks I talked to pointed, I'm also struggling with a back problem and going to physical therapy. Can you tell me more about the esc failure? Thanks.
 
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Efliernz

I read about the GPS not working so well at the polar latitudes in the Wookong literature and had a discussion about this with my dealer who assured me that as long as I had a GPS signal it would work. I was at 74°N in Canada. Both of my copters went out of control and crashed in similar manners. What doesn't make any sense is why my rebuilt copter went out of control in a similar manner back home in Seattle.
 
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ProPilotWannaBe

No problem here expressing opinions and sharing ideas. In general, I stay away from forums because of rude trollish behavior, so I can understand your being restrained and timid. I'm just trying to find some more ideas for what went wrong with my copters. So, it sounds like you are still suggesting that when I rebuild that I get a new radio as well?
 

Can you tell us what things are in common between the two setups? Same Wookong+GPS? Same transmitter/receiver? Same... what else?

I used the same DJI Wookong including the controller, PMU, IMU, iOSD, and 5.8 GHz transmitter, along with same the Futaba 8J radio and receiver on my S800 and NEO 660.
 

Octo NZ

I'm not sure of the difference between AT and AT-GPS modes. My copter was programmed to fly in GPS, AT, & M. Interesting information about the return to home function not working in Attitude mode. I did not know that. When I rebuild, I will test the turn of the radio feature to test the return to home fail-safe. I previously mentioned in another reply that I asked my dealer about the won't work at polar latitudes statement in the manual, but was assured that as long as I had GPS signals it would not be a problem. This also doesn't explain why it went out of control here in Seattle.

I bought my Wookong & S800 in June, so I assume that I would have had the latest GPS.

Thank you for your feedback.
 

Stacky

Member
I dont know what esc's you are using but have you checked the program settings on the esc's?. if they are able to be set to nicam or lipo you need to check they are set correctly. if set to Lipo then when the battery voltage gets lower they can switch off which might explain the sudden loss of control. If one or more switched off then you would have control issues similar to what i saw in your video. Non DJI user here so Im just chucking an idea out there. it may be that the esc's in your machine dont have this problem.
 

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