2 AXIS Gimbals

[Droider]

Anyone flying a 2 axis brushless gimbal?

All the talk on here is about 3 axis but there are a lot of one man set ups that may benefit from a 2 axis for the smaller cameras like the Nex5 / Sony Cx730 sizer cameras.

Also with the in the UK keeping under the 7KG limit is tough as soon as a 3 Axis is required as most 3 axis are around the 2kg mark with camera which means a sub 7kg machine cant really be used..

Although I am working on that!

D

 

[jes1111]

The 7kg limit applies only to recreational flying over 400ft, doesn't it? And, AFAIK it is "7kg without fuel" which, I presume, means without batteries. Or have I got that all wrong? So hard to keep up

 

[Bowley]

Its just that over 7kg involves more interaction with ATC units in class A,B,C & D airspace.

 

[Bowley]

Anyone flying a 2 axis brushless gimbal?

All the talk on here is about 3 axis but there are a lot of one man set ups that may benefit from a 2 axis for the smaller cameras like the Nex5 / Sony Cx730 sizer cameras.

Also with the in the UK keeping under the 7KG limit is tough as soon as a 3 Axis is required as most 3 axis are around the 2kg mark with camera which means a sub 7kg machine cant really be used..

Although I am working on that!

D

Hey Dave, I am planning a build for a 3 axis gimbal at the moment, what I have determined is that I will not use retracts as the add a fair bit of weight but use the style that has the landing gear fixed but integral to the gimbal,, basically a cinestar style gimbal, I'm looking with interest at the Copter frames Aura 3DEE it weighs little over the weight of a set of retracts. Planning using Basecam or G-Lock. Is the BLD available yet?

 

[jfro]

Anyone flying a 2 axis brushless gimbal?

All the talk on here is about 3 axis but there are a lot of one man set ups that may benefit from a 2 axis for the smaller cameras like the Nex5 / Sony Cx730 sizer cameras.

Also with the in the UK keeping under the 7KG limit is tough as soon as a 3 Axis is required as most 3 axis are around the 2kg mark with camera which means a sub 7kg machine cant really be used..

Although I am working on that!

D

I have 3 - 2 axis gimbals that I've flown, 4 counting my Tarot Gopro gimbal. I'm having some decent, but sometimes frustrating success, and it's still a work in progress.

I have a 3 axis Gopro that's made me want to make a 3rd axis on one of my 2 axis gimbals, but have been balking at the weight and changing landing setup. I have a large x8 with 3515 Avroto's that can handle the 3rd axis with 5d or gh3/gh4, but haven't gone that far yet.

I think, if one wants to spend a little extra money on storage, then the gh4 @ 4k, or any light weight 4k camera, MIGHT negate some of the need for a 3rd axis. I don't yearn for the 3rd axis so much for yawing 90 or more degrees, I just want to keep the yawing steady when flying and to smooth out the operator induced occasional jerky or sudden yaw. With 4k, you will have plenty of cropping space for the times when you need it via software tracking and stabilization.

Droider, I thanked you late last summer for opening my eyes to flying a f450 type smaller quad. I still have lots of fun on it but am not as enamored with the auto exposure on the Gopro which is all it can carry. I've since put a Pixhawk on that so have a way to go to learn how to tune it. My X8 is a nice rig and handles the wind and more weight, but it's still a little more stress flying with that much weight & money in the air. I'm much more cautious with it.

My new favorite flying machine is a new 650 quad with 3520 motors that can carry the gh2 with a lightweight 2 axis gimbal and the footage is pretty good (just put the gh2 on it this weekend). I put my Naza V2 on this one and it flies very nice and so far with my Gh2, I'm cautiously optimistic I can make the lightweight gimbal work. Will try the Gh3 soon, but it may be too heavy for this smaller 2 axis gimbal. With a 6s/ 8000mah battery, I think I might get 15-18minutes of filming. I get more than that with the 3 axis Gopro gimbal which is just too much fun to be able to fly 18-20 minutes on 1 battery.

 

[SoCal Blur]

I don't know that using a light 4K camera necessarily negates the need for the 3rd access. You can crop all you want but it won't get rid of operator (or wind) induced sudden yaw and the jello video that accompanies it.

In addition if you're taking stills, the Gh4 doesn't have any image stabilization like other cameras do so a sudden yaw could really be a problem. Having a 3rd axis operating in follow mode is really the only way to smooth things out, IMO.

 

[jfro]

I don't know that using a light 4K camera necessarily negates the need for the 3rd access. You can crop all you want but it won't get rid of operator (or wind) induced sudden yaw and the jello video that accompanies it.

In addition if you're taking stills, the Gh4 doesn't have any image stabilization like other cameras do so a sudden yaw could really be a problem. Having a 3rd axis operating in follow mode is really the only way to smooth things out, IMO.

I wouldn't argue with you that 4k negates the need for a 3rd axis or that 3 axis is the best way to go. I've a BMPC and GH3 and I'm contemplating selling them and buying gh4. If I do, I'd probably wait and see if I could get by with a 2 axis. I like light and nimble, but I also like smaller files so I'm not sure the 4k is what I want to be capturing all the time.

I haven't used it in years, but along time ago, I was an early user/seller of After Effects. Right now I've played with the stabilization to fix some crappy video it seems to work. There used to be and I assume it's still there, a tracking feature.

Let's say you have a 5 minute edited video and in there you have a half dozen or more 2-3 second bad yaws. I'm guessing with tracking and stabilization, you could make them presentable. The way they used to use tracking, is you would identify a spot or two on your video with bounding boxes and then tell the program to stabilize it around those boxes/elements.

Maybe a After Effects guru could enlighten us as to if this is feasible or not.

However, the old rule of shoot it right and forget about fixing it in post applies and a 3 axis is the best way to go....

 

[Droider]

The 7kg limit applies only to recreational flying over 400ft, doesn't it? And, AFAIK it is "7kg without fuel" which, I presume, means without batteries. Or have I got that all wrong? So hard to keep up

The fuel is the electrons, the pack is the fuel tank so the battery weight is included in the 7kg

 

[Droider]

Its just that over 7kg involves more interaction with ATC units in class A,B,C & D airspace.

It also includeS distances for TO&L + other distance restrictions

 

[Droider]

I don't know that using a light 4K camera necessarily negates the need for the 3rd access. You can crop all you want but it won't get rid of operator (or wind) induced sudden yaw and the jello video that accompanies it.

In addition if you're taking stills, the Gh4 doesn't have any image stabilization like other cameras do so a sudden yaw could really be a problem. Having a 3rd axis operating in follow mode is really the only way to smooth things out, IMO.

I was thinking of one for the CX730 with the BOSS stabilisation which works really well to minimise yaw twitch.

 

[Bartman]

dave,

i've got a video in the works that i'll hopefully post this week and it should muddy up the boundaries between 2 and 3 axis camera mounts. the script is written, just have to shoot, edit, and post it. heading into the shop now to get started.

bart

 

[SoCal Blur]

Originally Posted by jfro -

I haven't used it in years, but along time ago, I was an early user/seller of After Effects. Right now I've played with the stabilization to fix some crappy video it seems to work. There used to be and I assume it's still there, a tracking feature.

Let's say you have a 5 minute edited video and in there you have a half dozen or more 2-3 second bad yaws. I'm guessing with tracking and stabilization, you could make them presentable. The way they used to use tracking, is you would identify a spot or two on your video with bounding boxes and then tell the program to stabilize it around those boxes/elements.

Maybe a After Effects guru could enlighten us as to if this is feasible or not.

However, the old rule of shoot it right and forget about fixing it in post applies and a 3 axis is the best way to go....

I use After Effects and another program that I don't think they make anymore called CommotionPro. CommotionPro's tracking code was developed by ILM (Industrial Light and Magic). It's an awesome 3D tracker and I think a little better than After Effects but that's just my opinion. Even Commotion can't get rid of motion blur and jello video if you were to get that from a rapid Yaw movement. With a 3 Axis gimbal, you're less likely to see that happenning when in Follow Mode. It just makes the video smoother, overall in my opinion.

 

[Droider]

So there are no 2 axis.. I dont care about a third axis, I need something light but it looks like I just stick with the AV130.

 

[ZAxis]

So there are no 2 axis.. I dont care about a third axis, I need something light but it looks like I just stick with the AV130.

Dave, we been flying the KamKop brushless gimbal 'L' with our CX730. Expensive but built to German engineering standards. We use a 2axis Alexmos board to drive it. We ordered it direct, including the motors and Alexmos and it came ready built up and pretty much ready to go.

http://kamkop.de/gimbals/professional/9/brushless-gimbal-l?c=8

Check out the aerial shots in this video.

andy

 

[DucktileMedia]

Looks great to me. I am still using my av130 under control of the HFP gimbal outs. It's OK at best. But I still have a pot on there as to some newer systems that put the board right on the gimbal. I feel this is teh very first thing to eliminate on a servo driven system. If you were to use the analogy of a staircase, a normal size step may be the equivalent of the potentiometer where the step size of the gyros are the equivalent of having 1000+ steps in the space of one normal step. The next weakest link is the backlash in the servos internal gearing. As there are quite a few gears, no matter how tight they are, when they jerk back and forth it can never find a happy spot and that equates to jitter. But I dont think the system needs to be so friggin fast and precise as a well tuned brushless gimbal to give great results. Certainly the irregular friction of the roll gear is not ideal but the alternatives such as how PS1 does theirs has its own set of issues. I am using the cx760 on my av130 and it does pretty well. Though the stabilization of the cx is great it can only help so much. My setup is not bad under light winds or slow forward movement. But it cant come close to a brushless when things go awry and need that instant response/zero slack system.

I've said this before but I am guessing someone is going to bring back the plastic globe enclosures we all used to see on the SRH gimbals way back. Like the Cineflex, it just needs something to streamline the flow of wind over the camera at various angles. As systems become that balanced and fragile they will need more protection from elements.

Dave, I'm not sure what you are looking to hear. Sounds like you know the answer already. There are tons of 2 axis gimbals out there, are you specifically looking for servo based? what about Bart's gimbal? Talk about robust and cool looking, it's too bad he doesnt have Tab's marketing power. Ive also seen him fly in 30+ with some decent footage under MK control. All that started to solve an argument which had to be proven and was.

I'm not sure I am going to jump on the brushless bandwagon until I know I can swap a lens or change an SD card without pissing off the whole crew waiting for me to pull my last 2 strands of hair out.

I'd also like to draw some attention to another system that a friend has out there. Company is called http://www.aericam.com/ and though this may not be the perfect thread to share it in, they have a few things that will help in holding larger cameras. Primarily their oval tubing/clamp system is brilliantly obvious as nothing can rotate under loads. I've used their system on a few shoots and it is very solid. Not just in output but in physical construction.

 

[DucktileMedia]

BTW, is it the software or the av130/200 that limit it to 90degrees movement? Its the pot right? I find it very frusterating that I cant get it to stay level AND point straight down.

 

[Bartman]

BTW, is it the software or the av130/200 that limit it to 90degrees movement? Its the pot right? I find it very frusterating that I cant get it to stay level AND point straight down.

that should be a function of the gimbal controller. i've got an AV-130 that can do from about 30 degrees nose up to straight down but it's a combination of HF GIMBAL settings and radio settings that enable it to do that.

bart

 

[Bowley]

It also includeS distances for TO&L + other distance restrictions

Where have you got this information Dave, I'm sure all the distances are the same unless there has been a recent change

 

[DucktileMedia]

Bart, I have the hovergimbal and could not get it to do a real full 90. Hoverfly was not able(or willing) to help me figure this out. I just gave up and decided if I needed a directly downward facing shot I had to re adjust the neutral point down about 20 degrees.

On a brighter note, now that I am using the hoverfly pro's servo outputs I was kinda bummed that the software didnt have a variable for the response of the transmitter control on the tilt axis. EVERY other controller I have used has this. BUT the great news is that my new Futaba 14sg has the ability to slow down any of the servo outputs which makes the tilt over ride slider work famously.