slowing down video

Bartman

Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
Hi all,
I've got a friend that I'm doing video work with and it seems the footage from my T2i isn't holding up too well when he slows it down. I'm thinking the solution is to buy a 1080/60p camera but maybe we're not handling the T2i footage in the best way possible?
Does anyone recommend a best practice for handling the .MOV files from the T2i when slowing them down?
If you need more info I'll have to ask him how exactly he's working with the files in the process of building our video clips.
THanks,
Bart
 

yeehaanow

Member
What resolution did you shoot at? How are you slowing it down?
30p is good for a slightly slower 80% slowmo, but at 60p the aliasing and moire become too much for me in most aerial situations. (deep depth, wide lens, everything in focus, lot's of detail...etc)
If you want to go slower, use 30p, shot at a HIGH shutter speed to freeze any motion blur and use Twixtor.

This was shot with the t2i, so it Can be done. :)

 
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Bartman

Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
wow, very cool stuff. the nature of my footage though is that it's taken with a fast moving multi-rotor and the subject is a very stationary golf course. would you expect that I could get similar results to what you had?
I'll spend some time with the camera tomorrow and see what changes I can make to my settings to make the slow-mo better.
Thanks for your help!
Bart
 

DucktileMedia

Drone Enthusiast
Other than flying slower you would have to use 720 60p. Or buy the nex5n or whatever 1080 60p camera you can afford. Like Tim said, you can only go so far before things get glitchy with 30p. Unless you want to suffer using something like Twixtor, which doesnt work on everything, you are stuck.
 

yeehaanow

Member
wow, very cool stuff. the nature of my footage though is that it's taken with a fast moving multi-rotor and the subject is a very stationary golf course. would you expect that I could get similar results to what you had?
I'll spend some time with the camera tomorrow and see what changes I can make to my settings to make the slow-mo better.
Thanks for your help!
Bart

I wouldn't say that's an ideal situation. Like Iris says, it would be better to just fly slower. Unless you have the right camera settings when you shoot, Twixtor won't help you at all.
Unless I'm doing something special, I will rarely slow the footage down below the limit at which it either has to duplicate frames, or blend frames together. For example, I'll shoot 60p and my timeline is 24p, so the footage plays at 40% speed, frame-for frame. But, if I wanted to go to 20%, it would need to duplicate every frame, and that's when it starts to look bad.
 




DucktileMedia

Drone Enthusiast
Twixtor is a PITA to use and make work. these guys know what to shoot to make this work. The way it works, it does not like a lot of organic backgrounds. I got some decent shots using a green screen, that was about it. everything else looked like it was morphing images. It needs to be very carefully planned out and you need to mess around with it a lot to get good results. I'm just saying this for all those who think you are getting a 1-button magic program. Now Mercalli on the other hand IS a 1 button magic program. If you really want 1000fps, go rent a phantom.
 
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Dune

Member
but at 60p the aliasing and moire become too much for me in most aerial situations. (deep depth, wide lens, everything in focus, lot's of detail...etc)

Could you explain this? To a layman, it seems that with 60p you could very easily just cut the speed in half. Or do other speeds. Why does 60p behave differently? Curious to learn more about this.
 
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Droider

Drone Enthusiast
What resolution did you shoot at? How are you slowing it down?
30p is good for a slightly slower 80% slowmo, but at 60p the aliasing and moire become too much for me in most aerial situations. (deep depth, wide lens, everything in focus, lot's of detail...etc)
If you want to go slower, use 30p, shot at a HIGH shutter speed to freeze any motion blur and use Twixtor.

This was shot with the t2i, so it Can be done. :)


Eh Up YH. So is there a blog or specific instructions on the set up for getting footage you can slow to these speeds?

Dave
 
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MombasaFlash

Heli's & Tele's bloke
Twixtor is a PITA to use and make work .... Mercalli on the other hand IS a 1 button magic program....

What does Mercali offer that the standard FCP plugin SmoothCam doesn't? Or does it just do it better? I have found that applying too much SmoothCam results in too much zoom and therefore blurs the resulting image. The other side-effect is that 1920x1080 video has to be exported at 1280x720 because, presumably as a result of the zoom-in after applying SmoothCam, all sorts of jitters and mess are introduced.


This was shot with the t2i, so it Can be done. :)


Do you know what sort of shutter speed was used to reduce motion blur?

Choice of shutter speed in general is a tricky one because leaving at 1/50th (for 25fps) is certainly not quick enough for the majority of helicam requirements but anything above 1/120th starts to lend a slightly unnatural feel to the video.
 
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yeehaanow

Member
Could you explain this? To a layman, it seems that with 60p you could very easily just cut the speed in half. Or do other speeds. Why does 60p behave differently? Curious to learn more about this.

What I mean is that unless you are shooting with a shallow DOF (background blurred) the resolution is very low, and the artifacts when shooting high-detail regular patterns are terrible. Do a search for canon Moire and Aliasing and you'll see what I mean. Or take a shot of a screen window in focus and you'll get some psychedelic craziness! The same is true when you're shooting trees and leaves, but it manifests itself as looking like lower resolution. Yes, you can just conform 60p to your project frame rate and get a nice 50% or 35% slowmo. But, if you're finishing in 1080p, after smoothcam, the zoom in is like 160% so it ends up looking really bad for aerial work. I use it often on the ground with a shallow DOF though. (Course, not anymore now that I use the GH2)

Eh Up YH. So is there a blog or specific instructions on the set up for getting footage you can slow to these speeds?

Dave

They have their settings on vimeo. ALL you have to do is eliminate motion blur. I think they used 1/1000 shutter speed.

What does Mercali offer that the standard FCP plugin SmoothCam doesn't? Or does it just do it better? I have found that applying too much SmoothCam results in too much zoom and therefore blurs the resulting image. The other side-effect is that 1920x1080 video has to be exported at 1280x720 because, presumably as a result of the zoom-in after applying SmoothCam, all sorts of jitters and mess are introduced.




Do you know what sort of shutter speed was used to reduce motion blur?

Choice of shutter speed in general is a tricky one because leaving at 1/50th (for 25fps) is certainly not quick enough for the majority of helicam requirements but anything above 1/120th starts to lend a slightly unnatural feel to the video.

I don't use Mercali, but I think it will vary the zoom amount and/or synthesize the edges so you need less zoom-in.
The thing that I see A LOT, is if you are planning to post stabilize, you MUST shoot at a high enough shutter speed to eliminate motion blur. Otherwise, once it's stabilized, you'll see one or two frames that all of a sudden have blur, and that looks bad.
Once you have stabilized, then, you need to go back and add motion blur as if it was shot at 1/50th (24p/25p) or 1/60th (30p).
It's a pain, but it is the only way, that's why having a very smooth platform, top notch flying skills, and a great stabilized gimbal is an ideal situation, so smoothcam is just used to polish already very stable footage.

Twixtor is a huge pain, and I have spent many hours waiting for it to render, only to find out I needed to change the setting and render again, but other than the Optical Flow feature in Motion, it's pretty much the only game in town for hyper-slowmo, and it can produce great results.
A few years ago I shot a film at 4fps and used twixtor to fill in the 'missing' frames. Not related to aerials at all, but kinda fun. http://vimeo.com/19553068
 
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DucktileMedia

Drone Enthusiast
mombasa: I dont use FCP, so Mercalli is the best. Never tried the built in Warp effect in cs5.5 since I am on cs5. But I agree that it should only be used to fine tune an already decent shot. otherwise you get jumps and blurs and some other weird undesirable effects. Pretty amazing what it can do though.

I never thought to up my shutter speed using Twixtor. I might give it another go. I love your use of it though Tim, that was the result I was getting but not wanting :) Very creative, I love it.
 

yeehaanow

Member
Thanks Iris.
IMO- Warp stabilizer in AE 5.5 is the best. I have tried them all at some point, and concluded this for myself. Of course, it is the most expensive and the most taxing on your computer. The part that makes it great is its ability to deal with rolling shutter artifacts, which are a killer in most other programs.
There is a free 30 day trial of 5.5. When I want to use it I rent it for a month @ $70. Not too bad.
 
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andrewrob

Member
I don't use Mercali, but I think it will vary the zoom amount and/or synthesize the edges so you need less zoom-in.
The thing that I see A LOT, is if you are planning to post stabilize, you MUST shoot at a high enough shutter speed to eliminate motion blur. Otherwise, once it's stabilized, you'll see one or two frames that all of a sudden have blur, and that looks bad.
Once you have stabilized, then, you need to go back and add motion blur as if it was shot at 1/50th (24p/25p) or 1/60th (30p).

Hi Tim
How do you do what I've highlighted in bold above? I've shot some video from a Droidworx AD6 with an AV130 today using a canon T2i(550d) at 1080p 24 1/200 the video is reasonably stable but I get a terrible rolling shutter wobble effect going on. I've run it through Virtual Dub's Deshaker 3 program with the rolling shutter value set to 60% and it seems to improve a bit but its still very noticeable. Its as if every other frame is distorted.
Here's the raw video

Thanks
 
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yeehaanow

Member
Your asking about 2 separate issues. Sometimes rolling shutter won't show its head till you have stabilized, as you've seen, and usually I think it is due to vibration getting to the camera. Is it a slow regular jello wobbling?
It can also be related to the lens you're using, if it has any distortion, as most 10-18mm lenses do. If you see the nasty effects only in the parts it's moving the frame around (stabilizing) then it's probably the lens.
Sometimes there's nothing you can do. I would try After Effects for that correction.
For adding motion blur, AE has it built in, and you set your shutter angle (180 deg) and render.
FCP has a stop motion blur that I've used before. It really needs to be a 'smart' blur that uses a vector-based technique to blur only the parts of the image that need it. I don't use this feature very often.
 

yeehaanow

Member
I see your video now. The problem is that you have vibration. That's the hardest rolling shutter to fix. AE is the one I've found to be the best. Also, it helps to enhance the contrast and render before applying stabilization, that way the stabilizer can 'see' the detail better.
 

andrewrob

Member
Oh right. Guess I better get looking at trying to isolate the camera even more. Will prop balancing help much? Do you think 1/200 is about right shutter speed wise?

Thanks
 


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