Help with Tarot 680 build component list

Fernando

Fernando

Member
Hi everyone!

After flying a couple of weeks some toy drones around to get the hang of it (you know, the about $50-$100 type) I went for an Eachine 250 with FPV and was absolutely delighted until last week when i flew it too high, a gust of strong wind took it out of sight and FPV range and that's that. Bye bye $250 (the quad and the Runcam).

So I ordered a new 250, barebones, as i've got all the FPV and transmitter stuff lying around. BUT THEN the Tarot 680 caught my eye, and as I want to do some serious filming (when I say "serious" I mean GoPro-ish, not DSLR for now) and I was in the mood of building it myself, I made my wishlist of components. I'm trained as electronics engineer so I'm not scared of soldering or building/modifying/cannibalizing/reinventing-the-wheel stuff.

I really do want to order the parts ASAP, but if any of you could point out any flaws or improvements, I would be very grateful, because as I've said already, I'm still quite new to multirotors and I don't want to sink any unnecessary money into some POS just because I lack the ability to make a better decision. So here it goes, and thanks for any help I might get... :

  • Tarot 680 frame (not sure if the Ironman is better. Is it?)
  • Emax Simonk 30A ESCs (do OPTOs make any sense?)
  • Emax 2213 935KV (would a 620KV be better? I've seen lots of people using those)
  • 10-13 inch CF props (I'd like the 13 inch ones but doesn't that force me to get the 620KV motors?)
  • NAZA M V2 + iOSD
  • TS832 FPV Transmitter (Boscam probably)
  • Taranis X9D Plus with X8R (probably in S-Bus mode)
  • Feiyu G3 Mini 3D gimbal
  • TL65B44 Retractable Landing Gear connected to some ultrasonic Arduino thingy I still need to build, to automate it when I go below/above 3-4 feet. I know, it's easier with a switch, but what the hell, i want to try it out. ;)
  • some GPS tracker I haven't figured out yet
  • 2 X 5200 mAh 4S batteries (I am seriously considering putting all the FPV/transmitter stuff on a separate 2200 mAh 3S battery. Does that make any sense?)
  • Xiaomi Yi till I can fly that thing blindfolded, then a Hero Black.
So, as I am in the $1500+ ballpark I'd really appreciate any suggestions to improve/change the components. The intended use for this multirotor is mainly aerial filming, not thrashing around (I'll have the 250 for that) and I'd really like it to fly autonomously in the near future, at least to a certain degree. But we'll see.

Thanks to all in advance,
Fernando
 

violetwolf

violetwolf

Member
It's good practice to find a build thread on the copter you want to build and more or less copy the components lists. At least for the first few builds. There should be a couple of successful builds on the forum here ;)
 


Fernando

Fernando

Member
violetwolf said:
Oh PS: I'd suggest swapping out the NAZA for a Pixhawk or Fixhawk for a more professional system, and avoid future fly aways.
Click to expand...

Thank you Rick for your input.

I think you are right and I'm running with the Pixhawk. I had considered it for some time but then discarded it. But there you go, what do I know? And the fact that its 2/3 of the price of the Naza. And I do like OpenSource. But this decision throws up two more questions:
  1. Should I buy it directly from 3DR or is some complete kit from i.e. Banggood (bit.ly/1LXYwfA) ok?
  2. The telemetry is available in 433 MHz/500 mW and 915 MHz/250 mw and I got no clue which one would be better.
Thanks again violetwolf.
 

ProfEngr

ProfEngr

Member
Fixhawk would save you a few $. It's on rctimer.com, but their host dropped the ball and the US site is down or I'd put a link here. They'll supposedly be back up in a few days w/ a "big discount" for customers.
 


Fernando

Fernando

Member
violetwolf said:
Yes I second the FixHawk from RCTIMER. High quality build at a good price. I see mixed reviews on the cheaper Chinese ones. I use the FixHawks myself.

Telemetry frequencies depend on where you live. Some areas are 433 and others 915 info here: http://diydrones.com/group/apmusergroup/forum/topics/433-or-915-mhz-telemetry?commentId=705844:Comment:1362066&groupId=705844:Group:394667
Click to expand...
Hi and thanks again Rick,

Thank you for the telemetry link. As I live in Spain, I'll have to go with the 433, as 915 will clash with European cellphone frequencies. So that's one dealt with. And regarding the Fixhawk (this is like the Neverending Story) I saw that rctimer.com is down, as ProfEngr said, but there is also rctimerusa.com, and they have the Fixhawk at $136. Does anyone know them? Are they ok?

And then I stumbled upon helibatics.com. They have the Pixhawk PX4, with GPS & USB/LED module & Power module & telemetry at $220. Are they legit? It almost seems too good to be true. Anyone with any prior experience with Helibatics?

Sorry for asking, asking & asking, but as soon as I solve one thing, two new questions pop up. Is this a constant thing with multicopters or does it end sometime? Because if it doesn't I'm willing to change hobby to Slug Racing for something more relaxing... ;)

Thanks guys, you are really helpful and smoothing my path into this crazy multicopter world really a lot.
 

ProfEngr

ProfEngr

Member
$136 sounds about right. I'm waiting to see what the discount is. Might pull the trigger on one even though I'm a long way off from my 1st build. Tons more research to do. $400+ just for radio (Taranis) & f/c. Big-boy toys I guess.
 

violetwolf

violetwolf

Member
Hi Guys, Yes RcTimer USA is legit. That is Kendall Wells he's a decent guy and an ex cop. Well known on the forums, and I have bought from him a couple of times. Military precision in customer service and shipping. :)
 

John Doecliff

John Doecliff

Member
Decide what type of battery connectors you want now and buy a bunch so you have them as you add battery's. I have a 680 with a gopro on a gimbal and its overrated for that small of a load. It will take an extra battery for your fpv /gimbal no problem. I run 13 inch props and I like them. I used a small PDB instead of a wire harness. If you use retracts you can probably put your camera in the center but your props will be in the shot so you will need to hook up a remote tilt feature from your taranis. I will have to take a look at mine and see if theres anything else I can remember. Get some extra silicone wire.
 

Fernando

Fernando

Member
John Doecliff said:
Decide what type of battery connectors you want now and buy a bunch so you have them as you add battery's. I have a 680 with a gopro on a gimbal and its overrated for that small of a load. It will take an extra battery for your fpv /gimbal no problem. I run 13 inch props and I like them. I used a small PDB instead of a wire harness. If you use retracts you can probably put your camera in the center but your props will be in the shot so you will need to hook up a remote tilt feature from your taranis. I will have to take a look at mine and see if theres anything else I can remember. Get some extra silicone wire.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input John,

I just ordered 5 minutes ago two 4S 5200 mAh Floureon 35C. They are quite heavy (499g each), but they have good reviews, so I'm going to try them out. And I've decided to put on an additional 3S 1500 mAh for radio & gimbal, LED lights & GPS Tracker with a separate BEC. So that totals 1225g just in batteries. We'll see how that turns out...at least the wind won't blow it away in a hurry ;)

What's your AUW, BTW?
 

John Doecliff

John Doecliff

Member
I just went back and reviewed my build log on youtube and I couldn't find the weight anywhere. I must have just figured I was way under and didn't bother to do it. I just weighed everything now, I run a single 4s battery 5000mah or 8000mah. I get 1918g for the multirotor only, camera and gimbal are 262g and the 5000mah battery is 570g and the 8000mah is 740g. So my all up is 2920 with the 8000mah battery. I get 9 minutes with the 5000 mah battery and I think 12 with the 8000. Those numbers dont even take me down to nominal voltage. I would also recommend a couple extra landing gear tubes. Not the vertical ones but the thin walled horizontal ones that touch the ground. I snapped at least 2 and then got the bright idea to replace them with heavy walled CF tubes that wouldn't break. Big mistake. I had a hard landing and instead of the gear breaking it allowed all of the energy to be transferred up into the frame and I broke the bottom frame plate. It was a total rebuild just to replace it. Here's my build log on youtube. It was my first attempt so it's not super professional but there may be something you can gain from it.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLp-tuoXvBnVKODxaTnbk0_VSPS5PVXAWr
 

Fernando

Fernando

Member
John Doecliff said:
I just went back and reviewed my build log on youtube and I couldn't find the weight anywhere. I must have just figured I was way under and didn't bother to do it. I just weighed everything now, I run a single 4s battery 5000mah or 8000mah. I get 1918g for the multirotor only, camera and gimbal are 262g and the 5000mah battery is 570g and the 8000mah is 740g. So my all up is 2920 with the 8000mah battery. I get 9 minutes with the 5000 mah battery and I think 12 with the 8000. Those numbers dont even take me down to nominal voltage. I would also recommend a couple extra landing gear tubes. Not the vertical ones but the thin walled horizontal ones that touch the ground. I snapped at least 2 and then got the bright idea to replace them with heavy walled CF tubes that wouldn't break. Big mistake. I had a hard landing and instead of the gear breaking it allowed all of the energy to be transferred up into the frame and I broke the bottom frame plate. It was a total rebuild just to replace it. Here's my build log on youtube. It was my first attempt so it's not super professional but there may be something you can gain from it.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLp-tuoXvBnVKODxaTnbk0_VSPS5PVXAWr
Click to expand...

Thanks a million John!

The advice with the landing gear being able to break is priceless, and your Youtube channel is also very helpful. Today I actually committed to the build and bought the first stuff. I sunk almost $700 into a Taranis X9D Plus/X8R and a Pixhack with all the bells & whistles. So now there is only one way to go...forwards!
 

Fernando

Fernando

Member
violetwolf said:
Oh PS: I'd suggest swapping out the NAZA for a Pixhawk or Fixhawk for a more professional system, and avoid future fly aways.
Click to expand...

Hi Rick!

Today I really committed to the build (this is I took the credit card out of the wallet and used it to blow some money on stuff) and taking your advice to heart I bought an original Pixhack with all the bells and whistles, as well as the Taranis X9D Plus/X8R. That's almost 700 bucks gone...already.

I am "drytesting" the Pixhack right now on the bench and I simply love it. As I don't know the Pixhawk I can't compare both, but damn does this thing look good and full of potential. I can't wait seeing it in the air. That was a really good piece of advice on your part. Thanks again!
 

ProfEngr

ProfEngr

Member
rctimer.com is back up, but no sign of the discount touted last week. :(

DIY emailed a 20% coupon to celebrate attaining 76k members, but that only drops the Pix to $159.99; still more than the Fix at $129.99.

Edit: looks like the coupon is live at rctimer.com.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

violetwolf

violetwolf

Member
Fernando said:
Hi Rick!

Today I really committed to the build (this is I took the credit card out of the wallet and used it to blow some money on stuff) and taking your advice to heart I bought an original Pixhack with all the bells and whistles, as well as the Taranis X9D Plus/X8R. That's almost 700 bucks gone...already.

I am "drytesting" the Pixhack right now on the bench and I simply love it. As I don't know the Pixhawk I can't compare both, but damn does this thing look good and full of potential. I can't wait seeing it in the air. That was a really good piece of advice on your part. Thanks again!
Click to expand...


They're all pretty much identical in functionality as they all run the same open source software. There may be differences in components on the boards but they all follow the same open source schematics as well.

I'm not familiar with the Pix"hack" board though.
 

John Doecliff

John Doecliff

Member
Yes the open hardware stuff can be made by anyone. Some may use cheaper components but they are virtually all identical. CC3D had several approved vendors that maintained their standards for quality, wouldn't surprise me if pixhawk does the same.
 

violetwolf

violetwolf

Member
PS: The best advice I can give is to not go out and run all the fancy bells and whistles like auto missions right away.

Learn the basic functions first and fly your machine to make sure you're comfortable with it and then "learn as you go" testing the higher functions and toys. The FixHawk's (and Taranis) are vast in their functionality and can overwhelm.. Baby steps / basics first. ;)

I'll also add that there is usually little to no need to tune the PIDs on the Hawks. I find the stock PIDs work great across a wide variety of machines.. Don't assume you need to tune when it's hard to handle... It's likely that you need to learn the feel of the new machine ;)

The only thing I usually tune in PIDs is the ALT HOLD ... I usually need to bump that number up a bit... After the first test flights asign it to a knob temporarily and find the sweet spot while flying in Alt Hold mode so the craft holds its altitude well then go home and set the pid to that and disable the knob.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Fernando

Fernando

Member
violetwolf said:
PS: The best advice I can give is to not go out and run all the fancy bells and whistles like auto missions right away.

Learn the basic functions first and fly your machine to make sure you're comfortable with it and then "learn as you go" testing the higher functions and toys. The FixHawk's (and Taranis) are vast in their functionality and can overwhelm.. Baby steps / basics first. ;)

I'll also add that there is usually little to no need to tune the PIDs on the Hawks. I find the stock PIDs work great across a wide variety of machines.. Don't assume you need to tune when it's hard to handle... It's likely that you need to learn the feel of the new machine ;)

The only thing I usually tune in PIDs is the ALT HOLD ... I usually need to bump that number up a bit... After the first test flights asign it to a knob temporarily and find the sweet spot while flying in Alt Hold mode so the craft holds its altitude well then go home and set the pid to that and disable the knob.
Click to expand...

Hi Rick,

thank you for the additional advices on the FC. Currently I am in waiting mode, for all the stuff to arrive I can actually start building something, so I read, read, and read a little more. I wasn't planning on putting all the shiny new little black boxes to work all together, but to go for FC+GPS first. Once that works I think I'll progress to the telemetry thingy/basestation-Netbook and then we'll see what's still left in the box to connect and how it works (airspeed sensors and the like).

Regarding the PIDs I currently have no clue what they are for, because they are still on my "read about this" list, so I have to come to grips with them one of these days. Same goes for the auto-missions. They are way out of my league yet. I don't think I will be flying one of those before the end of summer.

Right now I am more preoccupied with Spanish Aviation Legislation and to find out where the military and civil no-fly zones are around where I live, because ignoring them can get you in very big trouble very fast. In the past months they have tightened legislation around UAVs a lot here and I don't think i can get away with flying without a proper license. So I may be forced to join an Model Flight Club at the next town. They've got a 2 square kilometer flying field and a proper runway. And they help you with all the legal stuff as well. But it's almost $500 to join. And that's a lot of money. Still considering.

As soon as I start building I may post my progress and headaches ;)

Fernando
 

John Doecliff

John Doecliff

Member
Looking forward to seeing your progress, Remember to be flexible during the build. Some items can only go one way and others can go any way you decide. When I do a build my plans always change on how I mount my batteries, gimbal and FPV system.
 

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