Strange pulsing of power.

Kilby

Active Member
Hey gang,

So I have a problem that I think I have figured out, but I wanted to run it past you guys and see what the verdict is.

On my x650 frame with the DJI WK-M, I have been running 10x4.7 apc props since I had it. It did ok, but I wanted to try out the 11x4.7 ones I had waiting on the sideline. All went well for the first couple of batteries, but then I started to get this very strange pulsing of the throttle. It almost seemed like someone was throwing my throttle up and down maybe 2x a second. At first I thought it was just one motor and suspected an ESC, but after test flights in the garage to study it, it's def all the motors together. It will jump straight up and down if controlled a little. It also only seems to start when the craft goes from a hover throttle rate to a climb. It was fine on spool up or if I got it up and in a hover, but not on a climb or take off.

At first I thought it might be in the DJI, so I went in and updated to the last firmware, reset all the settings to default and tried again... same problem.

I then swapped the 11x4.7 for the 10x4.7 and the problem was gone. It sounds to me like there is more power needed than my power harness can deliver once it's propped up to the 11's. I'm using the Avroto short shafts btw. Since I had my ESC's on the end of the arms, I had a lot of extra wire left over from the long motor leads. This is what I made the harness out of. I think the runs up the arms are ok, but when all those leads come together I ended up using more of the same wire instead of something larger. I'm thinking this is my weak point, the wire leading up to the distribution point where it splits and runs down the arms. Before jumping into the project of re-soldering all of that i wanted to ask a few of the fine folks on this board what they thought.

The only thing that makes we question this is the fact that it ran fine for a couple of batteries before this problem started.

Thanks for any input.

-Terry
 


Kilby

Active Member
That seems to be about the right speed, but mine is a little more violent. It will jump up and down and almost bounce when you trying to take off. I put the 10x4.7's back on it's it's all fine now.... except for some yaw issue now.
 

BorisS

Drone Enthusiast
curios what motor ESC setup do you have ?
Did you try flying it manual does it also happen ?
 

Kilby

Active Member
Avroto short shafts and 30amp DYS. I haven't tried manual yet since I swapped the props, but I might give that a go tonight in the garage.

Now it's got some kind of yaw issues. I haven't taken it outside yet for a real test, but just hovering and I can see a yaw that needs to be trimmed real hard to the right. It doesn't seem to be anything mechanical out of line or anything because it will jerk some, it's not consistant. It seems to be at first, but then suddenly it will yaw in the same direction fairly hard for just a second, then back to the normal rotation.

I didn't have this problem prior to the new firmware. I need to dig a little deeper and see what's wrong.

-Terry
 

Gunter

Draganflyer X4
I have the same problem on the Naza build...it jumps up and down like there is a short somewhere, or as you say, someone is playing with the throttle.

I'll have another look tomorrow!

Gunter.
 


BorisS

Drone Enthusiast
Tabb and Siteline please write Andreas Baier on this. Like said i only have it minimal and not really an issue but i know it is there. He knows from me and he said he will look at the ppm output and optimize the filter of the Herkules if necessary. If you guys also direct him to check it out it will be done sooner. That would mean we have someone changing the herkules firmware to the optimal what the WKM actually needs which would be great !!!!

Boris
 

Hi Boris,

Will do! I just got back into town from a filming job and need to do a few more tests before I can understand the problem a bit better. I did notice a huge difference when using 4s versus 6s. With 6s it was shaking up and down pretty bad, not at all on 4s. At 6s it would be at a much lower part throttle setting, I am wondering if Active freewheeling is more active then and contributing to the problem.

Tabb
 

Siteline

Member
Hey Tabb,
I'm flying 4s in this video does yours react worse than this with the 6s?

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Yeah, I think mine is worse then that video. It was really violent on 6s! As I recall it was only in Atti mode though, I dont remember it in Manual mode. Might be a combination of Altitude gain along with the fast hercules response rate or active freewheeling. I did not have the problem at all with my previous setup (cheap hobbywing ESC's)
 


Would be really nice if some of the vendors selling the Herkules boards join and provide some info of how they setup their systems.

I remember two EU sellers specifically saying that the Herkules works great with the DJI system.
 

Kilby

Active Member
Wow, i'm glad I asked this question now. So am I the only one that has seen this problem without the Herkules set up?

Once I went back to the 10 inch props everything has been great. It's actually flying the best that I've had it yet. No more wobbles when in GPS mode (had to align the compass better).

Does anyone think that my original assessment of my problem might be worth looking into, or how I would even test further to confirm?
 


BorisS

Drone Enthusiast
Well it was one guy claiming he is sticking the herkules into his CX WKM builds and that was Sandor Digitech, but as far as i understood he is not in this forum anymore and i doubt he would have shared anything essential.

But i have herkules in both CS8 and in der CX

in the CS8 with the QCs on 24deg FW on. slight slight power surges more with 5s than 4s

in the CS with the 2217/20 axis with 18deg but FW off. Nothing but only flew 4s up to now

Boris
 

BorisS

Drone Enthusiast
ESC timing is related to prop. size.

Japp that could be. I remember my herks with 24 deg having biggest problems with the 14 x 4 JXF wooden props, there i noticed the power surges strongest 12 x 3.8 11 grams CF props very little and lately with the 11 x 5 Graupner I had nothing.

Boris
 

Siteline

Member
Hi Guys,
I went out this morning for a few test flights. First I made sure that the Herkules FW was set at 24DEG, I also loaded the new 5.0 WKM firmware, and put the APC 14X4.7 props on the bird. So, I took up and the "power surges" were completely gone.:tennis: Then I tried to Iron out the isolation's with som remote gain adjustments using X2 and X3. I started at 200% and went up with pitch and roll as I went higher up to 350% the isolation's became more rapid. If I went back down to 200% they got slower and less noticeable but were still there below 200% to 100% they became more exaggerated but still slow. There was no wind. I remember reading people having a difficult time getting the gains set on these larger crafts with large props so I thought I would re-visit the APC 12x 3.8's. With those Props on the "power surges" were back as they were yesterday maybe slightly less ( no wind today). Does this info point to something? It was sure nice to fly with out those unnerving power surges. Does this still point to timing of the ESC's? Is it going to be happier somewhere in the middle? Should I try a different FW on the Herks? I think this is progress anyways?
 

Theres already a "parallel thread" with the same issue running. (I posted in both):


Hello All!

sorry for "not paying attention" to this very interesting thread. Boris asked me if i could join and give some comments. So here i am ;-)
First i want to clarify the issue with the timing:

24 deg is low (phase advance)
18deg is mid (phase advance)
12 deg is high (phase advance)

The phase advance is therefore always 30 degrees minus timing so
Timing 24deg = 6deg phase advance (low)
Timing 18deg = 12deg phase advance (mid)
Timing 12 deg = 18deg phase advance (high)

Second lets talk about the power surges. My ideas about whats going on?

1) The PPM Signal from DJI to Herkules is disturbed and Herkules reads a false pulse length or
2) The Firmware inside Herkules is not optimzed for DJI and maybe i need to optimize the digital input filters
3) The active Freewheeling is not continously on and steps in and out with light loads

Point 1) and 2) will be checked by us (me) this week together with some Sebastian from www.globe-flight.de. He hase its two own DJI System (Quadro and Okto) almost ready for tests.
Point 3) can be checked by you guys like already discussed. Please load into the Board the Firmware with active Freewheeling OFF (AFW0) and check if the surges are gone.
But be carefull! No AFW causes higher power losses in the ESC and then please dont load your Copter too much. So for high loads AFW1 is a must!

An option would be also to have AFW on (AFW1) and put a bit more weight on the Copter to see if the AFW is constantly on.

I will keep you on track with our test results.

Kind regards,
Andreas (ichwillnix)
 


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