Planning V Tail Quad Build Opinions Please.....

[Borneoben]

Hi Guys

After finding this great new Forum i have quickly decided that i need a V Tail Quad in my life!!

So I have put together a design and would like you guys to give me your feedback.
Primary Role will be for FPV so it needs to be stable and smooth

Specs are as follows
RCTimer A2830-11 1000kv Motors (Maybe FlyCam 925 but RCTimer are half price!)
Turnigy Plush 30amp ESC
10x4.7 props on the front motors
9x3.8 props on the rear motors
Rear Motors at 35 Degree Angle from Horizontal.
800mm between front motors.
700mm lengthways between front pair of motors and rear pair (easier to see in the pictures)
3s 4400 mah flight pack. (2 3s 2200’s in parallel)
CopterControl FC (as soon as it becomes available again)
Light ply and Carbon Frame
Spektrum Ar6200 plus 1 Satellite
900Mhz FPV gear
CP Antenna IBCrazy (RCG) Clover Leaf Design
GoPro for FPV Live feed and recording.
Vibration proof camera mount dampend by rubber mounts and mass of battery.
LED lights for fun and potential night flying.

I am pretty sure the All Up Flying weight could be as much as 2Kg, hopefully it will be closer to 1.6-1.8Kg
I would be grateful if you guys could take a look at the pictures and let me know what you think of my design.
If you can suggest any alternitves please do.
I'm especially interested in your opinions about the distance between motors.
In theory a bigger distance should make it more stable but of course it adds weight.
I am looking for 7-8 minutes of Flight time do you think that this heavy setup would achieve this on 3s 4400mah?
Looking forward to hearing back from all you experts!

Cheers

Ben

 

[Crash]

Nice. That is very close to how I was thinking of mounting the battery and camera. I was going to mount the flight board on the same plate as the battery and camera though. Let us know how it works out for you.

BTW, I have a new CC available in the US if you are in a hurry.

 

[Borneoben]

Hey Crash

I will have my Flight Controler mounted on the top plate of the frame using 2 rubber grommets per corner from a Helicopter Canopy.
This way you have very easy access to the board for plugging in the programmer etc.
See the picture attached. There is another grommet underneath the one you can see.

Yes i am interested in your CC controller!
Is your board the same as the latest full production board?
Will it be compatible for all future software upgrades?

Let me know how much you want for it and I'm sure we can come to a deal.
I can pay via Paypal.

Cheers

Ben

 

[rockynz]

Hi Borneoben,

I have both RC Timer BL-2830/14 750kv motors and Flycam 925's and you can clearly see why the Flycams are twice the price. IMHO worth every cent!

 

[matwelli]

http://multirotor.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/multirotorcalc1.xls 1300 grams frame, 200 grams go pro, and 400 grams battery gets you 7-8 mins in the air safely , 1.9 kg all up. its a bit high, as you will only have 2.7kg or so total thrust on your setup

my vtail quad , with a smaller frame was 650 grams , add a 3S 3000 and a 200 gram gopro, all up its 1132 grams and 8-9 mins flight time

if you think the weight will be near 2kg, have a serious think about running the 750 kv motors on 4S, closer to 4kg thrust

nice design, build it and see what the weight is, plan on having the camera and battery further forward, you need to offset the weight of the Vtail, the extra motor, prop and ESC on the tail, the centre of my battery was about 200mm forward of the cg for balance

the dimensions are good as far as 800 wide and 700 long

 

[matwelli]

@ rocky except the flycam shafts bend a bit easy for my liking

 

[rockynz]

YEAH but only if you use them for making dents in the ground Lol For normal flying around they'd be sweetaz

As for the RC Timer motors I have, the shafts are twice the length they need to be. With the prop collect fully on there is a 10mm gap to the top of the motor. I feel they'd be more likely to bend in a ding!

Anyhow I'll be trying them out. RC Timers for my X copter and Flycams on the Y6

 

[Borneoben]

@Rocky
I hear ya, i know you normally get what you pay for but i got out of Helicopters and into Multi Rotors becasue they were Cheap!!

@Matt
Thanks again for the feedback
I am currently building a Tri Copter with almost the exact same frame design so i will see how the weight comes out then i will have a good idea what the VTQ will be.
I want to stick to 3s if possible as i have a stack of 3s 2200s that why i was thinking of 3s 4400 for teh flight packs.
Thanks for the spread sheet very helpful.

Does anyone know if the RCTimer ESC can take the high 400hz frequency like the Turnigy Plush ESC can take?
as always HobbyKing dont have what you want in stock!

I was also told that the RCTimer ESC can be programmed with teh Turnigy Programming Card is this true?

Oh and one last thing
Can some one recommed a good source for Propellers?
I need 10x4.5 and 9x3.8 in counter rotating pairs??

Cheers all

Ben

Willpost

 

[matwelli]

@ben - the RCT ESC's and the Turnigy plush are both Hobbywing (thats why they use the same programing card) i am using RCT 20 amp and 30 amp at the moment - have had 1 out of 36 fail

@rocky - angle grinder with thin partoff wheel sorts that issue out, i whack em in half

 

[Borneoben]

Mat

Your a Font of useful information!

Many thanks


Ben

 

[rockynz]

Yeah I was thinking something along those lines Mat. Probably a good idea to wrap motor in something to stop grindings entering the windings huh?

 

[Borneoben]

Hey Guys

Does anyone know what the pitch is on the Gaui 8inch props?

I need some for my VTQ project and the Gaui ones come in CW and CCW pairs in funky colours

I also just noticed Gaui have 10 inch props as well. Any one know the pitch of these as well?

I need 8x3.8 I think and 10x4.7.

Cheers

Ben

 

[Borneoben]

Another question for He Who Knows All!
AKA Mat

With the two motors on the rear of teh VTQ what gap between the two props should I aim for?

My current layout has a very small gap of about 5-10mm

Is this sufficent or should i move them further apart?

My reasoning for keeping them as close to gether as possible is tourque on the rear frame arm.

The closer to the arm and each other they are the less leverage they will have to twist the arm.

Im concerned that if i spread them apart too far they will be abel to easily twist the arm giving all sorts of potential issues for vibration and funny goings on for the FC to handle??

What do you suggest?

Or am i over thinking things and should just get on with it??

Ben

 

[Crash]

Somewhere on this board I posted my crude ideas for a FPV frame. If you take your frame and flip it upside down it would be darn close to what I had in mind even down to Alex's cloverleaf.

I haven't gotten around to mocking one up yet though. I was also going to try a 180 degree tilt mount on the gopro at some point.

What are you planning for the ground antenna? I'm going to build a Virevent as per the tutorial that Hugeone made. Attached below.

I really didn't want to ship my spare CC board overseas for cost reasons. I think Dankers may have some. If he doesn't, shoot me another PM. Maybe I can be convinced if you want to help work on a frame design that we could release as open hardware.

Kirk

Hey Crash

I will have my Flight Controler mounted on the top plate of the frame using 2 rubber grommets per corner from a Helicopter Canopy.
This way you have very easy access to the board for plugging in the programmer etc.
See the picture attached. There is another grommet underneath the one you can see.

Yes i am interested in your CC controller!
Is your board the same as the latest full production board?
Will it be compatible for all future software upgrades?

Let me know how much you want for it and I'm sure we can come to a deal.
I can pay via Paypal.

Cheers

Ben

 

[matwelli]

I kept my props close as well , about 10mm, same reason as you

gaui props are fine, the pitch isnt critical, as you will adjust motor speed during setup to suit

would go with 10 by 3.8 for the mains on those higher kv motors, but 10 by 4.5 or 10 by 4.7 will be fine

Another question for He Who Knows All!
AKA Mat

With the two motors on the rear of teh VTQ what gap between the two props should I aim for?

My current layout has a very small gap of about 5-10mm

Is this sufficent or should i move them further apart?

My reasoning for keeping them as close to gether as possible is tourque on the rear frame arm.

The closer to the arm and each other they are the less leverage they will have to twist the arm.

Im concerned that if i spread them apart too far they will be abel to easily twist the arm giving all sorts of potential issues for vibration and funny goings on for the FC to handle??

What do you suggest?

Or am i over thinking things and should just get on with it??

Ben

 

[Borneoben]

@ Kirk

Hey man I would be more than happy to help you work on an open source frame design. I love this stuff and messing around on the computer is half the fun for me, plus it keeps me sane during work hours!! (I know i shouldnt say that, being the boss on site but my job Suck rights now)

Can you send me a link to your FPV frame I cant seem to find it.
I would be more than happy to share my designs with anyone who is interested.
Do you know anyone who could help manufacture these frames?

For my RX antenna I am using Alex's Skew Planer wheel, i havent had chance to test the system much, apart from running around my house with the tricopter and my wife watching the picture on the TV seems to yield a solid picture good results. Not very scientific i know!

That Virivent tutorial you sent is very interesting. I need to get some more copper clad welding wire and some more SMA pigtails and i will experiment.
Last night i managed to break one of the "leaves" off my cloverleaf and I have run out of flux so am having a real nightmare getting it soldered back together. So I may build another one from scratch with some new wire.

Anyway Get back to me on your frame design and your ideas and lets see what we can do.

@ Mat
I was planning on using the 2830 750Kv motors on the front with the 10x4.7 and then some 8x3.8 or what ever the gaui is on the rear motors are 2830 1000Kv

Does thats sound ok to you?

Cheers

Ben

 

[matwelli]

@ben - perfect !

 

[Borneoben]

Great!!

Will be placing order for Motors ESC's and Props very soon!

Many thanks for your hep with the specs.

Will keep pictures of the progress coming.

Cheers

Ben

 

[aazizul]

@Rocky
I hear ya, i know you normally get what you pay for but i got out of Helicopters and into Multi Rotors becasue they were Cheap!!

@Matt
Thanks again for the feedback
I am currently building a Tri Copter with almost the exact same frame design so i will see how the weight comes out then i will have a good idea what the VTQ will be.
I want to stick to 3s if possible as i have a stack of 3s 2200s that why i was thinking of 3s 4400 for teh flight packs.
Thanks for the spread sheet very helpful.

Does anyone know if the RCTimer ESC can take the high 400hz frequency like the Turnigy Plush ESC can take?
as always HobbyKing dont have what you want in stock!

I was also told that the RCTimer ESC can be programmed with teh Turnigy Programming Card is this true?

Oh and one last thing
Can some one recommed a good source for Propellers?
I need 10x4.5 and 9x3.8 in counter rotating pairs??

Cheers all

Ben

Willpost

For 10x4.5 you can get it from multircshop

 

[Borneoben]

Sorry aazizul i cant find multircshop can you post a link?

Termia Kasih