Phantom Crash

[yann]

Hello,
Iwas taking out my DJI Phantom 3 for it's 5th flight this morning. As usual, I calibrated the compass and made sure the quadcopter had a lock on the satellites. Everything was fine for the first 15 minutes and I was able to get some fantasic footage, however, then something went wrong. All of a sudden I did not hear the motors anymore, the remote app did not have connection either and it started to freefall. The quadcopter was probably about 200ft up when this happened. The only thing it crashed into was the ground when it was done freefalling. Pretty much the drone is toast at the moment. The battery was damaged from the fall, as well as the gimble and shell, so it is unusable now, $1300 down the drain. Anyone have any suggestions on what to do (and will DJI even cover this even though there was no way this was user error)? Please anyone chime in because this was a hobby and I was expecting this copter to last for a while because I was only flying it in open areas so I wouldnt crash.

 

[Benjamin Kenobi]

Hey mate,

Sorry to hear about your crash.

No, DJI won't cover it.

So, after 15 minutes the battery must have been really low, usually all I get out of a Phantom is 12 minutes before the battery enters the danger zone. Was there any battery warnings before it freefalled? It sounds like a battery issue for sure.

 

[fengshuidrone]

Every battery will eventually run low enough for this to happen. It is up to the pilot to prevent failure due to loss of power from the battery. Hint, I don't know if DJI has a timer function on their TX or not, but I know my quad flies for six minutes before the voltage drops to 3.7v per cell. On my TX is a little temporary contact toggle switch that seems to do nothing. If you look on the TX readout though, it starts a little countdown timer that I set for six minutes. At five minutes it starts to beep to let me know I need to get back and land and I have sixty seconds to do it. Since the beeper is in the TX there is no way I won't hear it, unlike an onboard low Li Po alarm which can sometimes not be heard well enough at distance. I can't believe that DJI would design a TX without this simple and common sense function. When you let your battery run too low, you damage it just as surly as your crash ended up doing (but not all at once.) When you run it so low that the battery actually goes dead there is nothing to save it anymore like failsafe which needs a charge on the battery to land a quad with loss of TX. Oh, wait, I get it.....they don't include the alarm and that way they'll sell a lot more when the first one crashes. Please, someone tell me they have a countdown timer somewhere on the Phantom TX........

 

[John Doecliff]

Yeah I was going to say as well it sounds like your battery died. Good thing is phantom parts are plentiful so a full rebuild isn't that hard to accomplish. I'm careful to set a count down timer if I'm flying without a means to know what my battery voltage is. I know how long my batterys last so I just set the timer and land when it's time.

 

[John Doecliff]

Phantoms have an.indicator light that flashes red when the battery is getting low. Pretty sure it's user configurable too. Doesn't do you very much good if it's too far away to see but at least it's something.

 

[fengshuidrone]

Yep, it figures. I guess a red light you have very little chance of seeing is better than nothing. It's like the folks who designed that TX never flew anything before in their lives before they came up with it and finalized it for production.
My first question to the design team there would have been "Where's the G*d *amn timer????? My second question to them would be "Don't you think a countdown timer is a good idea?"

 

[SleepyC]

Well actually the tablet you have connected to the Phantom 3 shows warnings right on it. In fact when the batt gets to 10% a notification will pop on and say "Critical battery" and if you do nothing, the ti will land itself.

So I'd say the operator would have to disregard all of this and keep flying in Manual OR...

DJI's smart batteries are notorious for only allowing 1 flight per charge. Meaning if you shut off the rig and then fire it back up, the software of the intelligent battery can get messed up. (This is more prone to Inspires but can happen to Phantoms)

So if you fire it back up the software messes up and even though the battery shows like 80 - 90% it's really at 50%.. so the low batt warning never kicks in.

Hence it's well known in the Phantom/Inspire circles to never fly more than 1 time on your battery. You can land and such, just don;t shut the machine off. So if i am doing a job with my I1, I'll fly for 4 min, land and leave the rig on until I go up again.

Everyone hopes DJI addresses this problem but so far... NOPE.

 

[fengshuidrone]

I'm not keeping up with DJI tech updates and new products for some reason. Probably because I'm a poor man. I am some of the lowly scum that builds his own stuff because I can't afford $1000.00 - $45,000.00 rigs and I have to make sure it's properly engineered so I don't empty what little cash I have in my bank account re-engineering after every fly away or crash. I need to address my own problems before they come up. Too bad DJI doesn't act at least like lowly scum.
They seem to be above anyone's concerns.

 

[John Doecliff]

Dji isn't that bad. They make pretty good flight controllers and other things as well. A lot of people like to hate on them for flooding the market with phantoms that many people use irresponsibly. They are like Microsoft or Google. They hold the largest share of consumer drone market so they are the 400 pound gorilla in the room that everyone loves to hate. They get their share of criticism some of it is valid and some of it is not.

 

[SleepyC]

I hated DJI and avoided them forever. I have a pile of custom rigs I have built over the years and still fly, but the P3Pro and the I1Pro are game changers. You can't build a rig that does what the I1 Pro does for even close to the same price.. it's nuts.

 

[John Doecliff]

I have said it before. Dji and 3Dr and others kind of sucked all the fun out of the hobby cause anyone with a few bucks can fly and get shots like a pro in a short time. Kind of like going all out with photography equipment and then some half wit comes by with a cell phone and takes a better picture. Lol.

 

[fengshuidrone]

Sounds like a challenge to me. I bet I could build a rig at 1/4 the cost that does MORE than a DJI can do. Too bad I just blew all my money on a new FPV rig or I would challenge you to a drone duel. I would like you to name one thing (not related to photos or camera quality) that a DJI can do that something I built with a simple multiwii can't. Can the I1pro do multiple flips per second as well as get a good photo? Can you, if you want, take the FC out of the 4 motor Inspire and install it and set it up to run an octo on another craft? My altitude hold is stable to within a foot or two up and down and 3 feet or so laterally. Position hold finally lets go at around a 23 MPH steady wind. Hold with a struggle from 15 to 22 mph. Holds as steady as can be expected in winds 5 to 15 mph and is rock steady in a steady wind from 1 to 5 mph. I have full way point mission capability, RTH, and all the GPS goodies I could possibly need or want. I can go spend a few hundred dollars on an expensive camera and hang it from a three axis gimbal under my MW powered craft just like DJI does. I have a really nice functional set of retracts on my quad that I built. I also built the retracts from my own design. I don't think that their "retracts" are all that special. I'm pretty sure I could build a MW craft that folds up even more cleverly than the inspire does, plus program the code needed to make it work automatically if I want. Maybe I'll do that next. But we are getting off track here in this thread about a dead battery. As soon as DJI comes up with a way to make sure that there is no way that what happened to him won't and can't happen to someone else, I will admit that they are almost as good as my Multiwii

 

[SleepyC]

Sounds like a challenge to me. I bet I could build a rig at 1/4 the cost that does MORE than a DJI can do. Too bad I just blew all my money on a new FPV rig or I would challenge you to a drone duel. I would like you to name one thing (not related to photos or camera quality) that a DJI can do that something I built with a simple multiwii can't. Can the I1pro do multiple flips per second as well as get a good photo? Can you, if you want, take the FC out of the 4 motor Inspire and install it and set it up to run an octo on another craft? My altitude hold is stable to within a foot or two up and down and 3 feet or so laterally. Position hold finally lets go at around a 23 MPH steady wind. Hold with a struggle from 15 to 22 mph. Holds as steady as can be expected in winds 5 to 15 mph and is rock steady in a steady wind from 1 to 5 mph. I have full way point mission capability, RTH, and all the GPS goodies I could possibly need or want. I can go spend a few hundred dollars on an expensive camera and hang it from a three axis gimbal under my MW powered craft just like DJI does. I have a really nice functional set of retracts on my quad that I built. I also built the retracts from my own design. I don't think that their "retracts" are all that special. I'm pretty sure I could build a MW craft that folds up even more cleverly than the inspire does, plus program the code needed to make it work automatically if I want. Maybe I'll do that next. But we are getting off track here in this thread about a dead battery. As soon as DJI comes up with a way to make sure that there is no way that what happened to him won't and can't happen to someone else, I will admit that they are almost as good as my Multiwii

Yea but none of your "can it" qestions apply to the craft. No one buys an I1P to flip. No one buys an I1P to take out the FC and swap it into another machine. The P3P and the I1P are purpose built machines. I have built over 100 multi rotors in the past 8 years. Some for customers that ran into the $50,000 range. And the one thing that no machine can be is a do it all. I mean it can but it will only be "OK" at each of the tasks.

Right now, the fact that on my I1P I can change aperture, focus, and all the other camera settings from the monitor or my camera op can drag his finger on the screen to aim and focus the camera while I fly is insane. Just 6 months ago, you would have needed a follow focus, a Movi and a Mimic to do something even close to that. The I1P is a game changer. FACT.

Again, i'm not a DJI fanboy, I was actually the opposite for a long time. I still have 6 machines that I built that are awesome for larger cameras, but for a professional AV guy who is shooting for corporate clients, commercials, independent movies, there is nothing out there that can compete with the I1 Pro. And when the X5R with RAW 4K ability comes out, it's going to be harder and harder to justify flying RED's and Arri's too much any more. (Unless they need the 5K resolution for adding CGI)

 

[fengshuidrone]

You missed where I said "not related to cameras or photo quality."
I just think they are way over priced. Lots of failure videos out there too. More surfacing all the time. I saw a high speed camera recorded video of a DJI Inspire flexing in flight as if it were the galloping gerty bridge back in Tacoma. The thing was flexing up and down kitty corner on the motors about a half inch or more. This was high speed (ala mythbusters type high speed) video. The thing must have been oscillating at like 60 cycles per second. It did nothing to"Inspire" my confidence in its ability to take that for too long. It's happening so fast that the naked eye can't see it. If I run across that video again I will post it. I'm blown away at the number of people who believe that you have to spend a ton of cash on the platform to get good video when something way cheaper that is built right can do a better job. I also understand that most people have no clue how to even use a soldering iron so I can also understand why companies like DJI (and others) can get away with gouging people for what is no more than a few hundred dollars in hardware.
OK found another video like that video. This one does not look as extreme as the other one but illustrates the point. The guy says its a known issue and he fixed his with a warranty voiding repair

What happens to the quad that belongs to the person who is flying one of these and is not aware of the issue?? Looking closely it does not appear to cause issues with the cam because more than likely that little gimbal is working it's ass off to keep the cam stable. So the owner flying this thing would never know he had the issue. I hope they have at least addressed the don't let your quad fly for too long because we have no way to warn you other than a red light issue with this rather expensive toy.

 

[John Doecliff]

It wasn't a challenge and I'm not sure why you saw it that way. DJI has a lot of haters and some of their complaints are valid but in the end they are putting out pretty good products and they are constantly trying to improve. You don't put out crap and get 70% of the market share. Plus they have spurred a lot of competition in this field and as a result of their successes Multi wi, open pilot and a whole host of others have risen to challenge them. Competition and more consumer choice is a good thing. Its not like they try to stifle their competitors or manipulate them. Its a free market and anyone can challenge them. You can always tell who the pioneers are, They're the ones with the arrows in their backs. They broke a lot the ground for others to follow. I have a mini with a cc3d open pilot on it and I love it. I also use a naza m v-2 on my larger hex. So what. If all we want to do is brag about is who has the biggest dick (or best FC) then no one learns anything. When DJI slips down the chain and is no longer on top it will be because their quality slips or better products emerge.

 

[dark_star]

Yea but none of your "can it" qestions apply to the craft. No one buys an I1P to flip. No one buys an I1P to take out the FC and swap it into another machine. The P3P and the I1P are purpose built machines. I have built over 100 multi rotors in the past 8 years. Some for customers that ran into the $50,000 range. And the one thing that no machine can be is a do it all. I mean it can but it will only be "OK" at each of the tasks.

Right now, the fact that on my I1P I can change aperture, focus, and all the other camera settings from the monitor or my camera op can drag his finger on the screen to aim and focus the camera while I fly is insane. Just 6 months ago, you would have needed a follow focus, a Movi and a Mimic to do something even close to that. The I1P is a game changer. FACT.

Again, i'm not a DJI fanboy, I was actually the opposite for a long time. I still have 6 machines that I built that are awesome for larger cameras, but for a professional AV guy who is shooting for corporate clients, commercials, independent movies, there is nothing out there that can compete with the I1 Pro. And when the X5R with RAW 4K ability comes out, it's going to be harder and harder to justify flying RED's and Arri's too much any more. (Unless they need the 5K resolution for adding CGI)

some context. I hate DJI too but the I1P and P3 are incredible for the price. for the low budget stuff it's hard to beat. maybe impossible. but for high end, production will continue and likely always want alexa or red. as nice as it is, no one is going to cut I1P footage into their spots. whole book have been written about this but 4K is not all equal (or any image sensor for that matter) and while I1P raw is good and useful it will never match the look of the high end cameras.

to the OP, for the future, it's important to pay attention to flight time. in your case it sounds like a classic case of simply staying aloft too long. no matter what 'safe fail' system it claims to have, always have a timer going too. use digi egg timer if your tx does not have one.

 

[fengshuidrone]

It wasn't a challenge and I'm not sure why you saw it that way. DJI has a lot of haters and some of their complaints are valid but in the end they are putting out pretty good products and they are constantly trying to improve. You don't put out crap and get 70% of the market share. Plus they have spurred a lot of competition in this field and as a result of their successes Multi wi, open pilot and a whole host of others have risen to challenge them. Competition and more consumer choice is a good thing. Its not like they try to stifle their competitors or manipulate them. Its a free market and anyone can challenge them. You can always tell who the pioneers are, They're the ones with the arrows in their backs. They broke a lot the ground for others to follow. I have a mini with a cc3d open pilot on it and I love it. I also use a naza m v-2 on my larger hex. So what. If all we want to do is brag about is who has the biggest **** (or best FC) then no one learns anything. When DJI slips down the chain and is no longer on top it will be because their quality slips or better products emerge.

Sorry, I was replying about the challenge to Sleepy C. on his post before yours. Hey this is all in good fun here on my part. Everyone who knows me knows I'm not a fan of DJI. I sometimes probably should just keep my mouth shut but that company has no ethics so I can't help but bash 'em when I get the chance. I'm going to shut up before I ruffle someones feathers.
The opinions expressed in this thread by me are mine alone and no one has to listen if they don't want. No drones were harmed during the writing of this post

 

[John Doecliff]

Don't worry its all good. I would like to add that DJI holds only the middle ground but not the extreme high end market. The big studios and professional videographers seem to go with other craft entirely. Sure you may see some S1000's with A2's but from what I have seen DJI only has a toe hold there. Yay capitalism! we all win!

 

[fengshuidrone]

My dislike for DJI goes back to when my son in law wanted to do some AP and introduced me to drones. DJI was just getting really big right around then. My son in law is a network administrator but decided that he liked the NAZA FC by DJI because he heard horror stories online about trying to set up other types of FCs. He said he just wants to fly and wants plug and play. He didn't want any of the extras that the Multiwii board I was looking at had for less money, because he didn't want the hassle of setting it up (HE'S A FRICKIN NETWORK ADMINISTRATOR!!!!) He bought a kit frame from HK and started saving up for the NAZA. I decided that I would go ahead and build my drone completely from scratch using the affordable Multiwii Mega Pro FC platform because of all of the neat features it had. I was up and flying after about six months of building the quad from scratch and learning the firmware and how to program and use it. He saved and saved until he finally could afford the NAZA a few months ago. I have moved 245 miles away from him and have not kept in good touch personally, but I see on FB that he finally got his quad finished. I'm not sure how well it flies but I'm sure it can't do what my MW can. He was constantly bashing me about choosing Multiwii over DJI but I think I had the last laugh there. He didn't think I would ever be able to figure out the MW firmware, but it was really pretty easy. Easy enough for my 60 year old brain at least.

 

[John Doecliff]

The open source hardware/firmware stuff is really cool. You need to learn it but they usually have their own forums and everyone is helpful. When I set up my cc3d there was a list of dozens and dozens of UAV's to choose from to apply your initial settings and get you going on the open pilot website. It was my first time with a FC other than DJI and I had no problems at all.