New to the forum

Riche

Member
Hello,
Well where do I start, this could be a hobby. However I am talking with someone that wants to implement this technology into what we do (land surveying). And I have to admit I have never considered working with drones. However I am a tinker down to the bone... Jack of all trades master of none. I have messed with cars and boats over the years but not anything that flies. So he has really got me interested.
As I start down this road that many of you have already gone. I just wanted to ask if anyone is willing make recommendations of articles to read and other important info.
I am considering buying something to learn with, Would prefer to build something. But I don't have to.
This would have to be something that I can use as a stepping stone to bigger more advance equipment.
Of course this is my own personal investment so I would like to keep the cost down.
Anyway I would appreciate any advice.

Thank you,
Richard
 

Riche

Member
I have been reading till I am blue in the face this morning.
It looks like I should start off with a mini and start learning piloting skills, as bad as I want to build something.
Or is there a inexpensive DIY mini to learn with?
What mini has a controller that is similar to intermediate and advanced controllers?
 

Riche

Member
"The question comes up a lot, should you build your first heli or buy your first heli?

Build or Buy? Let's break it down into the basics............

Before you attempt to span the void between "DIY or Ready-To-Fly?", you should buy your first heli and it should be a small, ready-to-fly quadcopter that you can use to fly around your apartment, living room, history class, back yard, etc. just to learn the basics of control. Take it out the box, charge it up and start flying the same day you brought it home. Do this before flying anything that is larger, more expensive, took a lot of time to build, etc. but please note: don't attempt to fly in your history class!

Back to the discussion :)

Build or Buy? We're going to help you to decide by asking you a bunch of questions, how you answer should tell you what to do.

Here's the first question

1. Do you have a long term plan or goal?
Are you trying to work your way to a high end multi-rotor application and this is just the first step or are you a curious hobbyist that wants to give multi-rotor helicopters a try? By answering this first question you're laying down the path you should be taking to get there as efficiently as possible.........after all, you don't want to waste a lot of money if you have an ambitious long term goal. If you're just giving it a try then that's a different story and you might enjoy experimenting with different things or you might want to just get flying ASAP without worrying about if your first purchase will have any long term benefit to you as a builder/flyer.
Morale of the story:
Well defined long term goal...build your own and learn the skills to make future builds successful
No long term goal...keep it simple, buy something inexpensive and continue learning what you can with it
No long term goal (2)...take your time, build your own, let the lessons learned help to define future goals
2. How specific are your needs/expectations?

There are some very specific criteria that could be satisfied with a ready-to-fly helicopter purchase but chances are if you have very specific needs then you're going to have to build your own helicopter or pony up the cash and have someone build it for you. Here's the rub though, if you let someone build it for you then you're also likely going to have to let them repair it for you which gets expensive, creates A LOT of downtime, and can jeopardize the success of your long term goals. If your plans are very vague though and you're not sure what you're really going to do once you've figured out how to fly that mini-RTF quad (that I recommend everyone start with) then buying a RTF quad may suit your needs and keep you moving forward.
Moral of the story;
Very specific and coincidentally in line with a RTF product...no brainer, buy it and get to work
Very specific but nothing available...congrats, you're about to embark on a hugely rewarding learning process that will have you doing things you never thought possible, build your own
Not specific...find another RTF that is a step up from your mini-RTF quad trainer, maybe something second hand in the classifieds that hasn't lived a very hard life
Not specific (2)...take your time, build your own, let the lessons learned help to define future goals

3. Are you concerned about the budget?

Money may be no issue for some but for most people the cost will factor into the decision making process. It's possible to build using the cheapest components possible and by doing so you can get a really spectacular rig for a fraction of what name brand parts will cost. Along the way though you may experience shipments that never arrive, delivered parts that are different from what was ordered, delivered parts that are dead-on-arrival, vendors that offer no after-sale support, parts that may be incompatible with other parts, etc., etc., etc.......the good news is if you're not on a schedule or can roll with these types of inconveniences then you might save a lot of money and still make it into the air.
If money is no object though then there are a number of great shops that will build anything you want and even help you to get it flying but it will cost you a lot more for their service.
Somewhere in the middle of these two examples is where most people will find themselves. RTF vs. DIY costs are hard to compare, there are so many factors involved. If you're entire decision is coming down to cost then there's a good chance you're not really sure about your long term goals and/or you're not really sure how specific your needs/expectations are. I guess what I'm trying to say is it shouldn't really come down strictly to cost. Give some more thought to the first two questions above and if all else fails, buy something used that is in good condition and do whatever you have to do to make sure you don't overpay for it. Keep it in good condition and learn what you can with it while continuing to make decisions about what to do next.
Moral of the story;
Cost shouldn't really factor in as much as your answers to the first two questions.
Unsure still? Go back and brainstorm on the first two questions. Post a new thread here at MultiRotorForums.com and discuss your uncertainties with those of us that have already been through it. Surf the classifieds here at MultiRotorForums.com and see if anything looks interesting to you. When all else fails, forget about it for a few days and go learn a new trick with your mini-RTF quad then come back to this thread and start over.

4. Do you have the skills to build a radio controlled multi-rotor helicopter?

Not a big deal as far as I'm concerned as a lot of people have learned what they needed to know and have gone on to build some really successful helicopters. If you absolutely are terrified though of a first build you can always take a look at our GROUP BUILD thread that currently has over 80 thousand views and which has helped a lot of people to complete their first builds successfully.
In the end though, you either want to build your own or, at the very least won't mind building your own, or you just don't want to build your own. If that's the case then everything else to this point is moot and you should buy RTF.
If you've read up to this point and now find that you're conflicted because you think you should build your own but really don't want to then it comes down to money...buy a custom build heli if you and your plans can afford it and can accommodate having to outsource repairs and maintenance. If you don't have the cash to keep the propellers turning then hunker down and get used to the idea that you're going to learn to build multi-rotor helicopters! Welcome to the club in that case! Go directly to the GROUP BUILD thread and get to work reading, learning, ordering, opening, and building!
Moral of the story;
You can build it. If you don't want to then that's a different story but don't spend the money on RTF because you think you can't build it yourself. You won't need a shop full of tools and you won't need a lot of shop space to build even the most capable of DIY rigs.

IMHO, it basically comes down to the questions above.


Keep in mind one more wrinkle worth considering....it is possible that a RTF heli will meet your short term needs while you further refine your long term needs and make decision about how to address them. In this case you should consider solutions to your short term needs that will somehow contribute to your long term needs. A manufacture's product that will meet your short term needs may or may not lead you to a next option that you can grow into. A product that relates to other higher end products may be a better choice, even if it's more expensive, because you will be able to apply more of what you've learned to the higher end product by first using a manufacturer's lower end products.

This was the concept behind my Solo-to-Pro plan of having new users build using my frames (when I was trying to manufacture them) and a Hoverfly Pro controller as the system was extremely easy to learn but could be used on the highest of high end rigs at any point in the future. By using the same flight control system from day one you'd be an advanced user by the time you were an advanced flyer! But Hoverfly has gone the way of the dodo even though they still might have the best "flying" controller out there. The point is, you can build a basic heli with an advanced flight control system and have a lot of tuning and set-up skills in your personal tool box when you're ready to build out that top-shelf helicopter that you'll eventually need.

Did this help? Are you on your way to making better decisions with a better idea of what your long term goals are? Let's discuss it and get you guys off the fence and moving forward!

Bart"

Just wanted to keep this here so I can come back to it.
 

Bartman

Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
welcome to MultiRotorForums.com Riche! Surveying is certainly something that can benefit from using aerial media along with GPS and other enhancements. Something as simple as a low altitude aerial can give perspective to a particular detail of a plot of land while higher altitude straight down shots can be marked up to show features, boundary lines, set-backs, etc. It's just a matter of how precise you want to get and how crisp you need your imaging to be.

The Group Build is the best way to get started, it'll require a real RC system for control which will be useful for years to come, you'll get a fun quad to fly that will likely be capable of flying at least a GoPro to get you started (you are allowed to have fun even if this is for work, if your wife complains have her call me and I'll get her straightened out for ya'), and by the time you're done you'll be leaps and bounds ahead of where you are now in terms of understanding what the possibilities are. Whatever you do, don't overthink it and try not to get too caught up in the marketing hype that has been flooding the market the last twelve months or so. Simple is good and in the right hands a heli built from scrap wood can do world class work.

Welcome and have fun, you're about to learn a new trade!
Bart
 


Riche

Member
OMG you are right Bartman... I over thought it, I started reading that thread then my imagination took over and I started reading about flight controllers...
The rabbit hole got really deep. Should I stick with some of the basic controllers that I see as bad as I want to get something that supports waypoint and other GPS options?
 

Riche

Member
Crap... I'm asking a lot of questions ain't I. Don't answer yet... I will read more.
I probably need to build something simple first like the F450 as opposed to building something big like I think I need F550.
 

Bartman

Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
go small first, learn to fly, learn how the different components relate to each other, use inexpensive parts, buy a good radio, buy a good flight control system.....get it flying and as you're working through this first build a lot of other things will come into focus in your head.

by the time you're ready to build your second heli you'll be much more aware of your options and what your needs really are. we'll still be here to help and it'll be second nature by the time you're ready to build that second heli.
 


Riche

Member
I am trying so hard to fight ebay and their $89 f450 kits...
I know I will learn more by selecting my own parts. But it is sooooo tempting.
 

Webheadfred

Air Traffic Controller
Bart said it. Learn to fly on something less expensive. Once you get the feel for it, going to something more expensive and capable will be much easier. It can be a lot of money up there and it really sucks if you get a fly-off or crash. Have fun.
 

Riche

Member
Is a 450 to much to learn how to fly for a beginner? So far from what I am reading I would not hesitate to build one.
However I am concerned that it can get expensive really quick depending on what FC,ESC and motors I choose.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Old Man

Active Member
How much can you afford to lose? Initially you should expect to crash a lot and break a few things while you learn the intricacies of how to control a MR. You truly want to learn how to fly without using an autopilot to control the aircraft. Why? Because autopilots do fail, GPS does lose lock, and automated flight modes often take a dump, especially after GPS loss, leaving you with only the skills developed flying in manual modes to save the day, and your expensive MR.

So something cheap and easy to replace like a small Blade or Dromida provides an inexpensive means to develop your manual control skills while being cheap to repair or replace during the learning stages. You don't want to carry a camera while learning, and if you did the video obtained would look like crap anyway because your efforts at controlling the aircraft will be so uncoordinated any video obtained would be useless for viewing purposes. A fair amount of it would be views of the rapidly approaching and arriving ground.
 

Riche

Member
A fair amount of it would be views of the rapidly approaching and arriving ground.
LOL
Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it.
I don't want to build one of those cheep 450 kits only to find out the FC or ESC's are garbage and it ends up being nothing but trouble.
Do you know if dromida is good about providing replacement parts for their MR like they are with their car line?
 

Old Man

Active Member
Parts are readily available and a complete parts breakdown is provided with the aircraft. Props, motors, and gears are about the extent of what you might need. Beyond that it's cheaper and faster just to buy another one.
 

Riche

Member
Santa is bringing me a Dromida Ominus. I didn't bother with FPV. I didn't want anything to distract me...
Hopefully I will learn enough to ask Santa for an upgrade next year!
 

Bartman

Welcome to MultiRotorForums.com!!
Santa is bringing me a Dromida Ominus. I didn't bother with FPV. I didn't want anything to distract me...
Hopefully I will learn enough to ask Santa for an upgrade next year!
have fun with it @Riche .......just remember, don't go too far or too high until you really have a good feel for it.
 

Old Man

Active Member
Build your first one cheap, with the outlook that it may get destroyed while you are learning to fly. An option is to buy something cheap to fly on will you build another at the low end of the scale to learn the ropes of parts compatibility and building. The more you know the better you will be. Once you have the flying down, build or purchase for the intended application. A pretty good survey drone can be had from 3D Robotics but it won't be cheap. Anything that is home built with serious intent for survey applications will also not be cheap, nor will the software, and the flight controller MUST be capable and adaptable to many different set ups. If it lacks flexibility so will your abilities. It must also be extremely reliable.
 



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