How to position hold and hover with Naza

[Vojec]

Hi guys,
After crash with my GAUI 500X and WKM order same frame with Naza. Setup go smooth, but when I try to position hold and hover must trim my quad all the time. If I go in front direction and then release all stick quad start to accelerate in backward direction. Have played with gain settings from 80% to 125% all Pitch, roll yaw,... with no luck.

Use brand new gaui motors 960KV and do ESC programing to. Use also default GAUI props, without balancing them.

Any ideas...

Thanks

 

[sim_io]

Make sure the Naza is at the very center of the multicopter. Most importantly make sure it's parallel with the frame (even if its slanted off a couple millimeters onto one side it will not hover)

If it doesn't hover after checking that then your cg is probably off, there are threads and videos on how to do this.

 

[Kilby]

The Naza doesn't have PH, only the WKM does. No GPS in Naza.

You can get a good hands off hover when it's tuned properly, but that's not PH.

 

[Vojec]

Thanks for quick reply,
Have Naza in COG position, also triple check motors (spining, angle,...) also tune ESC with Gaui manual:

Battery type and timing set: Nimh/Nicd (2 beeps)
All other settings to 1 beep.

Maybe must tune props? will do that.

The Naza doesn't have PH, only the WKM does. No GPS in Naza.

Ok now I get it. Well then this is normal behavior with Naza. Before Naza flight about a month with WKM.

One more question. Is it normal on Failsafe when quad land on ground not to turn motor off? In my case it just runing!?

Thanks

 

[a944734]

Afraid that is the behaviour of the present firmware. Silly little bug if you ask me, since after a "low voltage" landing the motors DO turn off ..

 

[Vojec]

Today did some test hovering with Naza. As I said before, when add only throttle quad lift up ok but slowly start to fly in backwards and left. I and quad stand nose front. So then I manually trim my Futaba Tx (15% front and 8% right). With this settings hover 100% better then before, but problem is when I want to start motors quad won't start because I have more that 10% trim with special stick combination.

Is there any other way to to adjust Tx, Naza, motors, calibrate ESC or... I don't konw... Any ideas?

 

[Bella7821]

Thanks for quick reply,
Have Naza in COG position, also triple check motors (spining, angle,...) also tune ESC with Gaui manual:

Battery type and timing set: Nimh/Nicd (2 beeps)
All other settings to 1 beep.

Maybe must tune props? will do that.

Ok now I get it. Well then this is normal behavior with Naza. Before Naza flight about a month with WKM.

One more question. Is it normal on Failsafe when quad land on ground not to turn motor off? In my case it just runing!?

Thanks

My motors also stay on (about the CSC speed) I think it's because my fail safe is set to 10%
Cant help you on the trimming you have to keep doing. Are all the sliders in the TX calibration screen green and in the middle?

 

[yeehaanow]

Today did some test hovering with Naza. As I said before, when add only throttle quad lift up ok but slowly start to fly in backwards and left. I and quad stand nose front. So then I manually trim my Futaba Tx (15% front and 8% right). With this settings hover 100% better then before, but problem is when I want to start motors quad won't start because I have more that 10% trim with special stick combination.

Is there any other way to to adjust Tx, Naza, motors, calibrate ESC or... I don't konw... Any ideas?

I think you can use a different stick combination. The manual has all the combos and one should work.

 

[Vojec]

Thanks for advice, but I know for other stick combination.If you close look at the attached image all combination starts with stick down and that is in my case the problem, coz if I turn right stick down it goes just 85% (trim 15% up)...

View attachment 3678

 

[Vojec]

Today do some more tests about trimming my Tx. Notice that Tx have also sub-trim, so enter value there and put quad in the air and it worked. Not Rock Solid, but hovers 100% better then before. Anyway Thank you guys for all support...

 

[Tomstoy2]

Saw your pm. Sounds to me like one or more of your arms on your Gaui are not positioned right. Check to make sure all your motors are perpendicular to the frame on a level surface.
Sub-trim is a no-no.
Also check that you don't have a bent shaft on the propellers.

 

[Vojec]

Hi Tomstoy2,
Triple check everything you said, and it is in place as should be. Confuse me the fact when apply only throttle stick gaui starting to move every time in one direction only (backwards). Completely different story would be if it moves in random direction. In the following video I demonstrate Naza hover problem. Notice: little wind blows in direction from camera to the fence.

Maybe I'm over reacting and complicate, but watch those chinese guys in the following video. That is real hover state with Naza.

 

[Tomstoy2]

Believe it or not, it is that good.

From your vid, I would say to double check your cog. If the multi is not balanced properly it will pull to the heavy side.

Also, the Naza needs to be on the very center of the cog, and needs to be pointed directly forward. A slight inclination off will cause drift.

If both of those are ok, try taking the motor off the side it leans to and swap with the high motor, see if it follows the motor.

If not, do the same with the esc's, see if it followes the esc.

Do the first 2 before swapping things around.

 

[Vojec]

From your vid, I would say to double check your cog. If the multi is not balanced properly it will pull to the heavy side.

Also, the Naza needs to be on the very center of the cog, and needs to be pointed directly forward. A slight inclination off will cause drift.

Thanks for suggestion, but check COG also (att. img.). Can't get Naza on very center of COG, because of the Lipo battery. When Attach Lipo on the bottom of quad then COG goes lower, right? Is this can cause the problem.

View attachment 3710View attachment 3711

Now I'm replacing motors and do test and report for about an hour or more...

 

[Vojec]

Today switch ESC and motors, but problem is the same. Also put battery above and bellow the quad and measure COD again to ensure is the quad on COD. Fly with weight of 1.950g, but direction is the same.

Later today will try move MC slighty forward, maybe re-position of MC will help...

 

[Vojec]

Even with moving MC forward not help. I'm running out of idea what cause that malfunction...
Maybe begin from scratch...

Thanks for support.

 

[Tomstoy2]

So , with changing the motors and esc's, it still drifts in one certain direction,,, to me this sounds like you might want to try shifting the battery a little to the high side.

Every time I have experienced what you describe it has been because the battery position was not right on. My Hexa will drift if the battery position was off even just a little bit.

Try that and see. Other than that, all I can think of is a motor must not be truely level in respect to the others.

On mine, to ensure the motors were all the same height I took off anything that was above the motors and then placed the Hexa upside down on my glass table to see if one or more was higher or lower than the others.

I have read that the Naza can be sensative to air bubbles trapped in the double sided tape securing it to the frame, also.

Other than that I'm pretty much out of ideas.

 

[Lifter]

So , with changing the motors and esc's, it still drifts in one certain direction,,, to me this sounds like you might want to try shifting the battery a little to the high side.

Every time I have experienced what you describe it has been because the battery position was not right on. My Hexa will drift if the battery position was off even just a little bit.

Try that and see. Other than that, all I can think of is a motor must not be truely level in respect to the others.

On mine, to ensure the motors were all the same height I took off anything that was above the motors and then placed the Hexa upside down on my glass table to see if one or more was higher or lower than the others.

I have read that the Naza can be sensative to air bubbles trapped in the double sided tape securing it to the frame, also.

Other than that I'm pretty much out of ideas.

Tomstoy / Vojek, I have the standard Gaui setup not Naza

The Gaui 500 manual on p#11 says " The propellers after installation is not totally horizontal, this is normal, the deviation / tilt is about 6 degrees (see drawing).
This is looking from the side view of the Quad = Thats how I have mine setup and it is as good as -

Quote: " to me this sounds like you might want to try shifting the battery a little to the high side. Every time I have experienced what you describe it has been because the battery position was not right on. My Hexa will drift if the battery position was off even just a little bit."

My experience exactly, even with a battery change of a Higher / Lower Mah, different brand ect the COG changes.
I have 2 Hackers the same with the position marked precisely and the cog is constant and results predictable but not with the other batteries fitted.. its all over the place with constant inflight trimming.
Hope this is or use
Cheers

 

[Vojec]

I have read that the Naza can be sensative to air bubbles trapped in the double sided tape securing it to the frame, also.

Can not believe that precision...

The Gaui 500 manual on p#11 says " The propellers after installation is not totally horizontal, this is normal, the deviation / tilt is about 6 degrees (see drawing).

Yes it is by default. You can not assemble without tilt it.

On mine, to ensure the motors were all the same height I took off anything that was above the motors and then placed the Hexa upside down on my glass table to see if one or more was higher or lower than the others.

Good point Tomstoy2. Well I will do that. Thanks for advice.

..its all over the place with constant inflight trimming

I'll be satisfied, if must trim all over the place, but always in one direction that's bother me... also re-position Naza all over the board back, front, side... result is the same...

When we talk about Naza and COG positioning, if you close look at the end of second video (1:13 sec) you can see, that MC Naza is not place on COG, nothing on other side of battery. Something else bother me, on that video is the Naza orientation. In my opinion white booms are supposed to be the front and red one back of the quad. So, if you look orientation of Naza is reversed (front-back), right? Or guys on video intentionally reverse the red and white frame (front back orientation)...

Anyway, thanks guys for suggestion and all help. Will continue to play with COG and positioning ...

Cheers.

 

[Vojec]

FINALLY Get quad hovering... Place MC just like show on video 2 (figure 1st from right) and push battery a little forward (figure 2nd). That's it. Upload some img for better imagining. Thanks Tomstoy2 & Lifter for push me a little bit forward with tests.

View attachment 3758View attachment 3759View attachment 3760


Outside testing will be after raining days... Next week.