Controllers, GPs, Autopilots

[Gonesouth]

I am a complete newbie at this, and considering how to proceed. for background, I'm a mechanical engineer, have extensive experience with controls and process automation, and have been a semi-retired innkeeper for the past 15 years. I have a good friend who has more than extensive electronics experience and skills available to help. I am actively looking for ways to make this hobby cost-effective.

Based on reading on the web, I am thinking of buying a cheap <$100 copter at Costco to learn how to fly a multicopter, and in parallel get a hexacopter parts package to build out. It looks to me that the easiest places to go wrong are in the controller choices.....after all motors, props, and ESC's are all cheap and easily replaced. I am thinking that I will quickly want a GPS and homing function in order to bring the unit home rather than losing it in the trees, whether I am pilot ot someone else is. I am also thinking that amateur video is probably in my future, so that a board that can do autopilot with waypoints is going to be my second major upgrade.......

Now, after reading hundreds of pages, I don't think I'm any closer to figuting out what I will need to have in control electronics and boards now or in the future. Is there somewhere that can tell me which boards will do these things and have a reasonable cost upgrade path? What pieces do i need with each board to upgrade, etc. Am I even right when I say that doing a programmed waypoint flight plan is what an autopilot does??

I would appreciate any help you can give me. I can generally follow instructions well if you will take the time to point me in the forward direction.

Thanks

 

[RichardDoty]

Multirotorforums is good enough to get info about multicopter.

X6 will be good enough for a beginner who has no flight experience. It was easy to control and durable enough. And it just $47 and free shipping( X6 mini quad).

Then you can try to flying a 450 frame kits, after you've master how to control this mini quad. 450 frame kits is mature, cheap and durable.

You can flying a 550 frame kits, after you've master 450.

Good Luck.

 

[PeteDee]

Highly recommend building a basic 450 quad with no bells and whistles and learn to fly it before deciding your next move.

Pete

 

[Gonesouth]

Thanks, guys. I appreciate the advice and have bought a cheap quadcopter and am trying to fly it. Once I can successfully fly it, I hope to be part way through building a 550.

On that note, I expect I will want to do some autopilot missions......any recommendations on autopilot controller boards?

 

[PeteDee]

Sorry I always fly my own MR's.

 

[Old Man]

Considering battery power only lasts "X" minutes, flying an automated "mission" makes very little sense. Far too many look at the advanced flight controllers and auto pilots and start thinking they can now start flyin real "UAV" operations. I've seen this same attitude in true UAV operators that look upon the multirotor as the next step in their automated aviation evolution. Perhaps you're on the cutting edge of power technology and have some new break through that will permit flights that will last multiple hours instead of minutes carrying a functional payload.

What kind of mission do you want to fly? A quick trip hitting way points as the craft flies around the block or in the middle of the large field in front of you? How about that 8 to 12 minute surveillance gig looping around some facility you're doing security work for? Perhaps you want to do a grid scan of a vineyard? Here you might find a little functionality since you cane move the flight plan between grids as each one is completed, but you'll still need to be close enough to get to the grid and back on a set of batteries, meaning your aircraft will likely be within line of sight the entire time. Legally, it HAS to remain within line of sight, unless you have enough money to go head to head with the FAA in a court room. Consider your personal liability for anything that might happen because you could not see your aircraft in order to control it.

Realistically, trusting one of the current crop of hobby level auto pilots to a fully autonomous, beyond line of sight flight right now is grossly irresponsible. Same may do it most of the time but none can be depended on to do it all of the time. The only A/P's I'm aware of that might be so entrusted are private aerospace units running ~$8.000.00 to $12,000.00. Yes, multirotor and RC heli flight controllers are sold with fully autonomous capability but that's a sales gimmick. I would hope people buying them are smarter than the marketing companies. IMO it would be better to develop flight proficiency and get good hand flying your aircraft instead of seeking a way to let some extremely fallible device do it for you.

 

[Gonesouth]

Old Man, thank you for your thoughtful and considered response. I am thinking of flying missions like inspection tours of my roof and verification videos of my property lines. Perhaps a run out over the river and back.......Luckily I'm not exposed to the FAA, so those issues don't arise yet, but I hear you on getting out of line-of-sight. With pre-planned missions it's very easy to set up something stupid which runs amok and can't be stopped. We just have to look at the news out of Washington on a regular basis to see that. (Joke!) And stupid mistakes in the absence of regulations will lead to tighter rules.

I'm also really interested in automatically controlled flight as a professional, intellectual exercise. In the same way as getting a plant to produce maximum volumes of product on spec for maximum profit gave me a kick back when I built process plants for a living.

Thanks again.

jim

 

[Bartman]

hello GoneSouth and welcome to the site.

We did a group build HERE which you may find helpful. Buying a simple quad in order to gain some flight experience is a great idea and by building your next one it will help you to develop a better understanding of the components and how they all work together. It sounds like you're off to a good start.

In the group build we used the DJI NAZA-M flight control system and the V2 version can do waypoint flights. You'll have to check out the DJI website to see what limitations there are when using their system for this. the controllers from 3DR and Mikrokopter also do autonomous waypoint flights but they are slightly more complicated to learn and fly.

There are other options to do this but the stuff we used for the group build probably has the highest chance of success because a lot of the details are worked out for you by DJI and tuning is relatively easy.

Good luck with it!

 

[Gonesouth]

Thanks Bartman for the welcome, and for all that you do for the community. I will followup on the group build and the NAZA. I hadn't figured out that either the NAZA or the Mikrocopter can do waypoints so that is very helpful info. I'm not necessarily going to go to waypoint missions just yet, but this stuff is getting so cheap that by choosing gear with the upgrade possibilities built in, you can end up with a very economical introduction to the whole thing. Makes the fixed wing experience look very expensive!

 

[genesc]

Well said Old Man. Goonsuth, as I read through many FAA regs, I see where the FAA controls all air space from the ground up. Sometimes they even use the word "Own". Not that they will be enforcing that with our quads in the near future is still up for grabs.

Bart has a good solution for you, The DJI Naza M V2 is probably your best bet for what you want to do.

Personally, I am new at his like you and it ill be a while before I fly outside of a 50 range..

Good Luck

Gene

 

[Gonesouth]

Genesc, Gene, perhaps you missed in my response to Oldman that I am not exposed to the FAA....i.e. I will not be flying in the US, so FAA rules are only useful to me as as guidance to what our regulators may or may not come to someday. I am looking at Bartman's thread and it is a very good and useful thread, but I am probably going to conclude that the NAZA boards are too rich for my blood, considering the cost of an Ardupilot board at roughly $80. But thanks for the input. I don't know about you but I learn best from listening to what other people say.

 

[genesc]

Yes I did miss that point GoneSouth. Should of picked up on your name first.. I am new at quads and trying my best to keep an open mind on all the different recommendations that these fine folks share. I am doing the Group build that Bart has put up and it is one great learning experience. Of course there are many bits of information that I need answers for and I get a great deal of help right here.

So tell me how far south are you...

Best of luck
Gene

 

[Gonesouth]

Actually I am not south at all.....gonesouth is a forum name I picked up a few years ago because I spend most winters in South Carolina or Florida. So i was mostly on forums when I was down south and 'on vacation'. In fact I just sold the Florida house. But I have space behind my property here and also access to my buddy's RC field so my flying will mostly be done here. I'm in Nova Scotia, Canada........go to Maine and turn right:livid:

So tell me how far south are you...

Best of luck
Gene

 

[genesc]

I live in South Carolina and this is where I retired. After living over 50 years in Californication I found my retirement Paradise. Love the 4 seasons and it never gets that cold or hot for any length of time. The arthritis loves it.. You can call a spade a spade here without getting sued...And you can drive down a road here without getting sign language or stuff thrown at ya from other drivers...

Gene

 

[Gonesouth]

Gene, l love South Carolina too. Unfortunately my wife's ancestors got driven out before they had free speech there. On the other hand, I'd never have met her if she'd grown up there so maybe it's not such a bad thing.
So we will keep visiting at least for awhile.